Most overrated player in baseball

[SethMode]

How about Cole Hamels? Only thing preventing me from saying he DEFINITELY IS, is the fact right now he's only a #4. And as a #4, he's actually one of the better #4s in the league.

Are you serious? There are few people that consider him an ace, and even then, he's really only had one bad season (albeit he doesn't have much of a sample size yet). If Hamels is the most anything, it's the most unlucky. Remember last season when his ERA was around or less than 1.00 for like a month and a half and yet he didn't have a win in like 6 starts? They never hit for him.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

The one thing I'll say for Reyes is he's amazing to watch in person. I once saw him hit a triple from really great seats behind home plate. It was one of the top baseball moments I've ever witnessed. He was batting LH and hit a shot to the right field gap that one hopped the fence, I swear he was at third base before the ball even got back to the relay man.

So a lot of his hype is based on his insane tools. I agree that he needs to put together a better leadoff man repertoire and stay healthy for a change, but he's not as overrated as his teammate David "E5" Wright.

Here is the reason why I feel he is overrated. I remember reading an article where Reyes could command a $100 million contract next off-season. I thought no way, but Carl Crawford comes along and gets his monster deal from Boston, and its not a far stretch (save Crawford has been more healthy than Reyes.) Like Reyes, I also believe Crawford is overrated, but to a lesser extent.

Both are similar players- top of the order, can run like the wind, great defense. Both do not provide a lot of power and they are best suited to the top of the order. Neither are worth $100 million, but in their roles, they are valuable players, and players who I like watching. I always enjoy watching Crawford, and I saw him quite a bit as an Oriole fan.

Hope that explains things better.

 

[shag773]

How about Cole Hamels? Only thing preventing me from saying he DEFINITELY IS, is the fact right now he's only a #4. And as a #4, he's actually one of the better #4s in the league.

I'l give you a pass because you're a Mets fan, but if you really look at his numbers I'm not sure how you can say he's overrated. Granted, '09 was not a good year for him, but he got better every year before that and had a really good bounce back year in '10.

One of the better #4's in the league? C'mon man....

 

[mcstl25]

Ichiro's my pick btw.

But, I think everyone's caught on to that by now as well too.

You gotta explain this one. If anything, I'd say that Ichiro is underrated. He's been the most consistent player not named Pujols in the majors during the last 10 years, and that's after he put in 9 seasons in Japan. Just imagine if he would have played his entire career in the US? He'd likely be closing in on Rose's hit record by now.

 

[manchild24]

Ichiro is definately NOT OVERRATED. Plays on probably the shittiest team in the league, never demands a trade like some of these other guys and hitting 310 is a down year for him.

Cole Hamles had one bad season. If anything I think there is more pressure on him this year at the #4 spot because of the three guys in front of him and he is expected to win.

Over-rated (where to start, here are some guys that pop into mind)

Mike Hampton
AJ Burnett
Adrian Beltre - I think this guy only plays in contract years
Brady Anderson
Mark McGwire - career 260 hitter who hit 300 maybe 4 times in his 16 years.
Sammy Sosa - career 250 hitter who hit 300 during his "juice days"
Daisuke Matsuzaka - even though I love the guy
Joba Chamberlain

 

[FedEx227]

Ichiro is overrated in the sense that he's paid like a superstar but generates runs like a slap hitter.

200 singles are impressive, but they don't help your team a whole lot. Add in the fact that he's really not getting on base anymore than most of the other superstars takes him out of that class for me. Career 117 OPS+ doesn't deserve to be in the highest paid category of players.

 

[manchild24]

His contract is pretty sick the way its negoiated (but good for him). If Seattle would pay him and traded him, they'd be the Pirates of the west coast. Well they are, but atleast they have to big draws in Felix and Ichiro

 

[shag773]

Cole Hamels is overrated.....

 

[FedEx227]

His contract is pretty sick the way its negoiated (but good for him). If Seattle would pay him and traded him, they'd be the Pirates of the west coast. Well they are, but atleast they have to big draws in Felix and Ichiro

He makes $25 million annually, he just gets something like 5% onto his retirement. That's a lot of money for a guy who really only hits a lot of singles.

 

[manchild24]

Im not arguing, any baseball salary is over-rated. Carl Crawford just got what 170 million or something and his numbers across the board are similar to Ichiro. maybe 10 more Hrs and 40 or 50 RBI a year (but the rbi have to do with Ichiro leading off). Ichiro gets like 40-50 more hits a year and and scores 100 runs every year (except the last two, but thats when they really sucked balls)

Crawford get 15 SB more a year, but I think Ichiro is the better defender and stronger arm.

But I get what you're saying paying a guy until 2032 with his retirement for a singles hitter compared to Puljos. Ichy's a superstar in my opinion, he's on the downside of his career now being 33

 

[FedEx227]

Well yeah, Crawford is horribly overrated and grossly overpaid. Good player but nowhere near worth the deal he got. Just happened to be in a light free agent class.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Ichiro is overrated in the sense that he's paid like a superstar but generates runs like a slap hitter.

200 singles are impressive, but they don't help your team a whole lot. Add in the fact that he's really not getting on base anymore than most of the other superstars takes him out of that class for me. Career 117 OPS+ doesn't deserve to be in the highest paid category of players.

Are you saying he's overrtaed, or over paid?

Yes, let's boil his production down to one neat, tidy, OPS+ number. That's fair. He never takes a day off, and is a mortal lock for over 200 hits. He never strikes out or hits into DP's. He's a great baserunner and plays defense. He doesn't walk that much, but why would he need to? He's going to have 215 hits and bat well over .300. Hits are better than walks, but that argument is for another day. He knows how to bunt, and he fouls off a million pitches. You'd be insane to not want him hitting somehwere in the top of your order and playing in your OF. He's the kind of player who's value gets clouded in a stat like OPS+.

Now if you want to tell me he's over paid, I'll trust you, because I'm not too much a salary guy and have no clue what he is being paid, or what he is being paid compared to others. Buut for fucks sake, the guy has been a superlative top of the order guy for a decade, and isn't slowing down.

 

[FedEx227]

I'm not arguing he's a great production, leadoff guy but he's paid like a run-producing superstar. He'd be about 1,000 times better if he hit a double or any extra base hits every once and awhile. Does lengthing his swing to generate more power reduce his amount of pure hits? Possibly, but I think it's well worth it. That's the trade off to me that makes him overrated. He gets a ton of hits which is cool, he undoubtedly makes great contact, but as I said all he really is just an elite slap hitter. What level of superstardom is that?

So I guess you can say overpaid, but I think it's one in the same. He's no doubt good at what he does, but he's not one of the top superstars in the game in my mind despite peoples thoughts and what his checks say.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not arguing he's a great production, leadoff guy but he's paid like a run-producing superstar. He'd be about 1,000 times better if he hit a double or any extra base hits every once and awhile. Does lengthing his swing to generate more power reduce his amount of pure hits? Possibly, but I think it's well worth it. That's the trade off to me that makes him overrated. He gets a ton of hits which is cool, he undoubtedly makes great contact, but as I said all he really is just an elite slap hitter. What level of superstardom is that?

So I guess you can say overpaid, but I think it's one in the same. He's no doubt good at what he does, but he's not one of the top superstars in the game in my mind despite peoples thoughts and what his checks say.

I can buy that.

Personally, i'd bat him second with his bat control, speed, bunting ability, etc. To me, he's the ultimate #2 hitter.

 

[FirstTimer]

Ichiro is overrated in the sense that he's paid like a superstar but generates runs like a slap hitter.

.

All those singles woul dbe a hell of a lot more valuable if he had anyone hitting behind him. If he played in NY, Boston, Chicago etc no one would care he only hits singles. They be creaming over how he is setting runs scored records.

Are you saying he's overrtaed, or over paid?

Yes, let's boil his production down to one neat, tidy, OPS+ number. That's fair. He never takes a day off, and is a mortal lock for over 200 hits. He never strikes out or hits into DP's. He's a great baserunner and plays defense. He doesn't walk that much, but why would he need to? He's going to have 215 hits and bat well over .300. Hits are better than walks, but that argument is for another day. He knows how to bunt, and he fouls off a million pitches. You'd be insane to not want him hitting somehwere in the top of your order and playing in your OF. He's the kind of player who's value gets clouded in a stat like OPS+.

Now if you want to tell me he's over paid, I'll trust you, because I'm not too much a salary guy and have no clue what he is being paid, or what he is being paid compared to others. Buut for fucks sake, the guy has been a superlative top of the order guy for a decade, and isn't slowing down.

This.

I'm not arguing he's a great production, leadoff guy but he's paid like a run-producing superstar. He'd be about 1,000 times better if he hit a double or any extra base hits every once and awhile. Does lengthing his swing to generate more power reduce his amount of pure hits? Possibly, but I think it's well worth it. That's the trade off to me that makes him overrated. He gets a ton of hits which is cool, he undoubtedly makes great contact, but as I said all he really is just an elite slap hitter. What level of superstardom is that?

So I guess you can say overpaid, but I think it's one in the same. He's no doubt good at what he does, but he's not one of the top superstars in the game in my mind despite peoples thoughts and what his checks say.

To be fair he is in the Top 10 in the league in triples on a pretty consistant basis. He only gets about 20 doubles a season but all things considered you'd have a tough time naming a better leadoff hitter in the entire league.

 

[FedEx227]

To be fair he is in the Top 10 in the league in triples on a pretty consistant basis. He only gets about 20 doubles a season but all things considered you'd have a tough time naming a better leadoff hitter in the entire league.

2010: 121st
2009: 77th
2008: 19th
2007: 25th
2006: 16th

 

[FirstTimer]

2010: 121st
2009: 77th
2008: 19th
2007: 25th
2006: 16th

Per baseballref.com
Triples s c a p y
2001 AL 8 (7th)
2002 AL 8 (3rd)
2003 AL 8 (8th)
2005 AL 12 (2nd)
2006 AL 9 (3rd)
2007 AL 7 (9th)
2008 AL 7 (6th)
Active 71 (8th)

 

[shag773]

Pete Rose had a career OPS of .784 and if I'm not mistaken, was one of, if not the highest payed player in the league, especially when he signed with the Phillies in '79. Was he overrated?

 

[shag773]

Just to gain some perspective, here are the top 20 salaries of 2010 from Wikipedia. List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many of these players actually outplayed Ichiro last season?

Alex Rodriguez 3B New York Yankees $33,000,000
CC Sabathia SP New York Yankees $24,285,714
Derek Jeter SS New York Yankees $22,600,000
Mark Teixeira 1B New York Yankees $20,625,000
Johan Santana SP New York Mets $20,144,707
Miguel Cabrera 1B Detroit Tigers $20,000,000
Carlos Beltran RF New York Mets $19,401,569
Ryan Howard 1B Philadelphia Phillies $19,000,000
Carlos Lee LF Houston Astros $19,000,000
Alfonso Soriano LF Chicago Cubs $19,000,000
Carlos Zambrano SP Chicago Cubs $18,875,000
John Lackey SP Boston Red Sox $18,700,000
Manny Ramirez LF Los Angeles Dodgers/White Sox $18,695,006
Torii Hunter CF Los Angeles Angels $18,500,000
Barry Zito SP San Francisco Giants $18,500,000
Ichiro Suzuki RF Seattle Mariners $18,000,000
Magglio Ordonez RF Detroit Tigers $17,825,976
Todd Helton 1B Colorado Rockies $17,775,000
Aramis Ramírez 3B Chicago Cubs $16,750,000
A.J. Burnett SP New York Yankees $16,500,000

 

[FirstTimer]

Just to gain some perspective, here are the top 20 salaries of 2010 from Wikipedia. List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many of these players actually outplayed Ichiro last season?

Alex Rodriguez 3B New York Yankees $33,000,000
CC Sabathia SP New York Yankees $24,285,714
Derek Jeter SS New York Yankees $22,600,000
Mark Teixeira 1B New York Yankees $20,625,000
Johan Santana SP New York Mets $20,144,707
Miguel Cabrera 1B Detroit Tigers $20,000,000
Carlos Beltran RF New York Mets $19,401,569
Ryan Howard 1B Philadelphia Phillies $19,000,000
Carlos Lee LF Houston Astros $19,000,000
Alfonso Soriano LF Chicago Cubs $19,000,000
Carlos Zambrano SP Chicago Cubs $18,875,000
John Lackey SP Boston Red Sox $18,700,000
Manny Ramirez LF Los Angeles Dodgers/White Sox $18,695,006
Torii Hunter CF Los Angeles Angels $18,500,000
Barry Zito SP San Francisco Giants $18,500,000
Ichiro Suzuki RF Seattle Mariners $18,000,000
Magglio Ordonez RF Detroit Tigers $17,825,976
Todd Helton 1B Colorado Rockies $17,775,000
Aramis Ramírez 3B Chicago Cubs $16,750,000
A.J. Burnett SP New York Yankees $16,500,000

Ouch at that list.