NBA Players Assoc. wants age limit back to 18

[Warner2BruceTD]

I should also add that the union should be more concerned with protecting the kids who can't play but will be tempted by money, then protecting the right of the Kobe's to jump right in. Kobe was going to be Kobe no matter what. Kwame Brown could have used some college hoops. But as per the usual, the union is misguided.

 

[FirstTimer]

The "high school era" of the NBA Draft was bad for everybody involved. The GM's fell in love with shitty flameouts, the shitty flameouts are flipping burgers somewhere, the NBA fans had to watch the shitty flameouts play and suffer through awful drafts full of no names and euros, and the college fans missed out on having better players on the floor. No one wins.

Players like Kobe & LeBron are few and far between. Make these kids go to school for a few years, it benefits everyone.

Ding.

(Thank god there's a Wikipedia page)

Since 1995, I bolded those I'd consider real big flameouts or disappointments

1995 Kevin Garnett
1996 Kobe Bryant
1996 Jermaine O'Neal
1997 Tracy McGrady
1998 Al Harrington
1998 Rashard Lewis
1998 Korleone Young
1999 Jonathan Bender
1999 Leon Smith
2000 Darius Miles
2000 DeShawn Stevenson
2001 Kwame Brown
2001 Tyson Chandler
2001 Eddy Curry
2001 DeSagana Diop
2001 Ousmane Cisse
2002 Amar'e Stoudemire
2003 LeBron James
2003 Travis Outlaw - although he signed a nice deal this offseason
2003 Ndudi Ebi
2003 Kendrick Perkins
2003 James Lang
2004 Dwight Howard
2004 Shaun Livingston
2004 Robert Swift
2004 Sebastian Telfair
2004 Al Jefferson
2004 Josh Smith
2004 J. R. Smith
2004 Dorell Wright
2005 Martell Webster
2005 Andrew Bynum
2005 Gerald Green
2005 C. J. Miles
2005 Ricky Sánchez
2005 Monta Ellis
2005 Louis Williams
2005 Andray Blatche
2005 Amir Johnson

The good majority of that list has carved out either a semi-long, semi-decent NBA career. You can argue what they would've benefited from at college but by and the large the unbolded guys have made a good amount of money and are either still in the NBA or had semi-relevant careers.

I also underlined some borderline guys.

I'd add CJ MIles to your list, Shaun Livingston,Curry, Chandler has to count for 1/2 as he's been marginal when not playing next to Chris Paul. Darius Miles as well.Lou Williams, Blatche, and Amir Johnson are all"meh" and even Jermaine ONeal who was a "hit" didn't really do much of anything in his first 3-4 years in the league.

Kwame Brown is not borderline. He sucks. He's been a walking punchline for years.

When you are talking about teams that have rosters as small as the NBA does 50/50 or anywhere near it really isn't a great ratio to be dealing with.

Like W2B says below when the league only had 1-2 HSers going into the draft per season liek Kobe, Garnett, etc it wasn't so bad. When the draft became flooded with these kids it starts to become an issue. I mean this list doesn't even count the kids that sought advice from the draft board, didn't get a good answer decided to go to school then flamed out.

You compare the HS entries to guys who even went one and done and I think you see a drastic improvement in the hit/miss ratio. I honestly can't think of the last one and done kid that has really busted. I'm sure there is one but I can't think of oen off the top of my head.

I should also add that the union should be more concerned with protecting the kids who can't play but will be tempted by money, then protecting the right of the Kobe's to jump right in. Kobe was going to be Kobe no matter what. Kwame Brown could have used some college hoops. But as per the usual, the union is misguided.

I agree.

 

[FedEx227]

You compare the HS entries to guys who even went one and done and I think you see a drastic improvement in the hit/miss ratio. I honestly can't think of the last one and done kid that has really busted. I'm sure there is one but I can't think of oen off the top of my head.

Just using 2006-2008 I found pretty mediocre guys or already flamed out: Tyrus Thomas (same category as Amir Johnson), Shawne Williams, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes (jury is still out), Javaris Crittenton, Daequan Cook, Kosta Koufos, Donté Greene, DeAndre Jordan, Bill Walker, Jerryd Bayless

Fringe guys like: Oden, Mike Conley, Thaddeus Young, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, J. J. Hickson,

Very successful one and dones since 2006: Durant, Rose, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon.

I wouldn't say that ratio is better really. There is a lot of crap in the mediocre/flamed out category.

2009 has some good ones like Blake Griffin and Tyreke, but also some guys who already appear on the way to flaming out like James Johnson and BJ Mullens. Still too early to judge that class though.

 

[FedEx227]

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to me.

I don't watch college hoops, so I really couldn't care less if John Wall spends a year at Kentucky, I'll likely watch 2 full college games a year. I follow the high school ranks more. I just feel enough guys have successfully made the transition that the rule isn't necessarily.

 

[ralaw]

IMO its a common misconception that highschool players bust more than college or European players and this has always been the case. I player becoming a bust has less to do with where they came from and more to do with how they develop on the NBA level. For the most part the very best highchool players are far more talented than most of the college guys who stay in school several years; however, the issue is whether they have the maturity to make the transition.....for the most part history has said that they do.

 

[FirstTimer]

Just using 2006-2008 I found pretty mediocre guys or already flamed out: Tyrus Thomas (same category as Amir Johnson), Shawne Williams, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes (jury is still out), Javaris Crittenton, Daequan Cook, Kosta Koufos, Donté Greene, DeAndre Jordan, Bill Walker, Jerryd Bayless

Hawes is improving pretty rapidly in Philly.

Jordan is getting better in LA and Green has turned intoa guy that started 50 games for the Kings last season after a terrible start to his career. I wouldn't say Thomas flamed out either. To me there is a difference between flamed out and becoming a mediocore NBA player. I don't expect every guy to become an All Star so I allow for some guys to become medicore.

Fringe guys like: Oden, Mike Conley, Thaddeus Young, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, J. J. Hickson,

Beasley, Hickson, and Young aren't really fringe guys to me at all. They are all very solid/good NBA players. Hickson is most like the best player on the Cavs, Young is quickly becoming a very good player in Philly and Beasley isn't on Rose's level but he's a very solid player.


Very successful one and dones since 2006: Durant, Rose, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon.

I wouldn't say that ratio is better really. There is a lot of crap in the mediocre/flamed out category

I would easily. In the HS level you have a lot of very highs and very lows. No tmuch middle ground. The one and dones you at least have a good amount of guys that are mediocore players and some flameouts. There is better balance with the one and dones.

 

[FedEx227]

Hawes is improving pretty rapidly in Philly.

08-09: 11.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg
09-10: 10.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg
10-11: 6.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg

Also Hickson was recently benched and put near the back of the Cavs rotation, he's probably their most athletically gifted player, but far from their best.

Also, Thaddeus who is also improving in Philly:

08-09: 15.3 ppg
09-10: 13.8 ppg
10-11: 12.5 ppg

 

[ralaw]

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to me.

I don't watch college hoops, so I really couldn't care less if John Wall spends a year at Kentucky, I'll likely watch 2 full college games a year. I follow the high school ranks more. I just feel enough guys have successfully made the transition that the rule isn't necessarily.

Yeah, the reason I like the one-and-done rule is because I follow highschool basketball and like to see how the kids perform in college. I actually probably watch more college games than NBA. These talented freshman bring a freshness and talent level to college basketball that I enjoy. I've really enjoyed watching Terrence Jones at Kentucky; however, I couldn't say the same had he went to the NBA and played for the Toronto Raptors and been the 8th-9th player off the bench behind some scrubs.

 

[FedEx227]

Yeah to each his own, I prefer the NBA game, but I'm going to leave it at that. Really not going to try and start the 9,124th NBA vs. College argument on VSN.

I don't HATE the rule. I just don't see it as being a real necessity.

 

[FirstTimer]

08-09: 11.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg
09-10: 10.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg
10-11: 6.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg

Hawes has dropped weight and is finally getting back into the swing of things in Philly. He came in out of shape and the last few game she has been showing improvement. He looked muchbetetr last night against the Celtics in some ways than he did earlier in the year.

Also Hickson was recently benched and put near the back of the Cavs rotation, he's probably their most athletically gifted player, but far from their best.

He didn't start their last game against the Bulls. Didn't think themove was permanent. I thought I had read it was because he was late to a shoot around or something.

Also, Thaddeus who is also improving in Philly:

08-09: 15.3 ppg
09-10: 13.8 ppg
10-11: 12.5 ppg

[/quote]
Young isn't starting as much this year but he's shooting nearly 60% from the field and as soon as the 76ers trade Iggy watch this guy to blow up. He's having his most efficient season of his career.

Do you need me to post his Per36? :smug:

 

[FedEx227]

Nah I don't like Per36 because it's worthless haha...

 

[FedEx227]

He didn't start their last game against the Bulls. Didn't think themove was permanent. I thought I had read it was because he was late to a shoot around or something.

Scott said he's out of the lineup now for awhile. He's still in the rotation but I suspect he won't start again for a little while or until an injury.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I think the amount of players that fail in the NBA coming out of high school and coming out after 1 year of college are pretty comparable. If you're NBA ready, you're NBA ready, one year of college is just delaying your process.

There are a lot of raw players who benefit from the college game of course, and its always good to get a college education, for experience purposes and to have something to fall back on.. but for a lot of these guys the one year in college means nothing. I really dont have a problem with the rule either way, if they want to allow high school kids I think its fine, theres been plenty of very successful ones over the last decade and a half. And theres always running the risk of an injury in college that could fuck it ALL up for you, or an off year that kills the value you had coming out of high school (which isnt a bad thing, usually that will weed out the immature and not ready players). But I dont think its up to Stern to play daddy and decide whats best for these kids, plenty of them are skilled enough to play right out of high school, and majority of them arent doing much maturing in their one year in college anyways.

BTW lol @ James Lang.. the next Shaq. That worked out well.

 

[FedEx227]

I'm still holding out hope on Ndudi Ebi.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think the amount of players that fail in the NBA coming out of high school and coming out after 1 year of college are pretty comparable. If you're NBA ready, you're NBA ready, one year of college is just delaying your process.

There are a lot of raw players who benefit from the college game of course, and its always good to get a college education, for experience purposes and to have something to fall back on.. but for a lot of these guys the one year in college means nothing. I really dont have a problem with the rule either way, if they want to allow high school kids I think its fine, theres been plenty of very successful ones over the last decade and a half. And theres always running the risk of an injury in college that could fuck it ALL up for you, or an off year that kills the value you had coming out of high school (which isnt a bad thing, usually that will weed out the immature and not ready players). But I dont think its up to Stern to play daddy and decide whats best for these kids, plenty of them are skilled enough to play right out of high school, and majority of them arent doing much maturing in their one year in college anyways.

BTW lol @ James Lang.. the next Shaq. That worked out well.

It's up to Stern to decide what's best for the NBA. IMO the rule is in the best interest of the NBA.

 

[NAHSTE]

IMO you're looking at this from your own perspective and taking for granted that everyone doesn't pay attention to the highschool basketball scene. I follow highschool basketball pretty intently and pretty much know the "scouting report" on most of the top highschool basketball players coming into college. However, everyone doesn't do this. To say a Kyrie Irving would recieve as much national attention playing for a sorry Timberwolves team that isn't even on television as compared to him playing for and leading Duke Basketball on CBS and ESPN every week is comical.

Pretty much. TBH, I didn't even know who Kyrie Irving was until like 4 days ago. I don't keep up with basketball recruiting and I don't really start watching CBB intently until conference play starts.

So if that guy was drafted this summer, I'd have been clueless as to who the fuck he was.

 

[Senser81]

I was a big Sebastian Telfair fan....

 

[NAHSTE]

Just using 2006-2008 I found pretty mediocre guys or already flamed out: Tyrus Thomas (same category as Amir Johnson), Shawne Williams, Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes (jury is still out), Javaris Crittenton, Daequan Cook, Kosta Koufos, Donté Greene, DeAndre Jordan, Bill Walker, Jerryd Bayless

Fringe guys like: Oden, Mike Conley, Thaddeus Young, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, J. J. Hickson,

Very successful one and dones since 2006: Durant, Rose, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon.

I wouldn't say that ratio is better really. There is a lot of crap in the mediocre/flamed out category.

2009 has some good ones like Blake Griffin and Tyreke, but also some guys who already appear on the way to flaming out like James Johnson and BJ Mullens. Still too early to judge that class though.

Tyrus Thomas redshirted for a year at LSU due to a neck injury, so his flameout can't be attributed to one and done status. And I think it's way too early to call on guys like Beasley and Randolph. I agree though that overall, the ratio has been about the same. Still too many ill-advised early entries.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I was a big Sebastian Telfair fan....

I dont think its fair to call Sea-Bass a flame out either. A bit of a bust? Sure. But dude has actually carved himself in a solid back-up PG.

 

[DJ Rhude]

I dont think its fair to call Sea-Bass a flame out either. A bit of a bust? Sure. But dude has actually carved himself in a solid back-up PG.

And has a good chance to play in the league longer than his more heralded cousin