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New NCAA 10 Producer Blog: Player pursuit angles

This is great to see, now I won't have to manual control to get those stops, the D will already be doing it prior to me taking control.
 
Copy and paste from my post over at OS

Firstly, I'll address why this isn't in the pursuit angle thread:
1) It'll get lost in the trash
2) It's about more then just pursuit angles

What is this post about anyway? I'm not going to complain about "twitchyness" or broken animations. My concern is defense with regardless to angles and assignments. A good defense requires discipline first and foremost. Each players has a responsibility on every type of play.

On a run you have a few basic "jobs". Force, Fill/Spill and Support. On an outside pitch or sweep, someone (corner or safety) forces the runner to cutback. Someone (a Safety or LB) fill's the cutback lane. Somone (DB most likley) supports the tackle.

On an inside run the concept is similar. One players job is to clog the hole (Force), the one player has fill (cutback) and another player has spill (bounce). The secondary comes up to support.

Every play has a primary gap and every play has a "support" gaps on every run. A 4-3 MLB will have the strongisde "A" gap as a primary (steps into hole at action at hole) and weakside "B" and strongside "C" as fill gaps. A 4-3 WSB has weak "B" as his force (clog) and strong A as a "fill" and weak C as a "spill". Each DL is responsible for a gap as well (4-3 nose takes weakside A for example).

What does this have to do with NCAA 10's pursuit angle blog?

In the first video, the defense is playing a 5-2 defense. The defense is designed to turn everything inside. The ends should be "box" ends and force the cutback. The ILB force the "A" gap and have fill for everything else.

The defense is in man coverage with a slant away from the play. Both safeties are rolled up. Since there is a slant, the safety on the playside becomes the force player and the LB's gaps both change by one (Playside LB now has playside C as his primary)

Watch the ILBs. Playside should be heading downhill into C gap based on the RB's action. Backside should be watching playside A to C for the cutback.

Watch at the 1 second mark, look at the cutback lane that forms. The safety's job is to turn that play back. He should be heading to the has marks keeping outside leverage and forcing the cutback into his scraping LB.

Where is the LB? His gap is wide open. Why isn't the backside LB scraping over the top now that it's an outside play.

Why isn't the backside safety taking the secondary cutback lane (roughly on the backside hashes).He is running at the corner of the endzone. Sure, he makes the tackle, but that isn't his job.

Lets look at video 2:

We have a 4-3 defense with the LB's showing blitz. Before we get to the play itself, the defense is out of position, they have no pre-designated force defender. I'll assume it was to demonstrate the video.

Based on the DE and OLB actions, the safety is the force defender (responsible to turn play inside)...from 10 yards deep. His first step at action at him should be 45 degrees towards the sideline to force the cutback. He falls for a non-existent counter and then turns to match the HB's shoulders.

If thats a back with speed (and not demonstrating a video) he's untouched for a TD with that type of play.

Those pursuit angles are just as bad as the 09 ones. Instead of "twitch" TDs by heading the sideline, they are going to be cutback across the field TD's...or untouched around the corner touchdowns.

They changed the pursuit logic sure, but they didn't make it realistic. It's imply a different kind of wrong.
 
Copy and paste from my post over at OS

Firstly, I'll address why this isn't in the pursuit angle thread:
1) It'll get lost in the trash
2) It's about more then just pursuit angles

What is this post about anyway? I'm not going to complain about "twitchyness" or broken animations. My concern is defense with regardless to angles and assignments. A good defense requires discipline first and foremost. Each players has a responsibility on every type of play.

On a run you have a few basic "jobs". Force, Fill/Spill and Support. On an outside pitch or sweep, someone (corner or safety) forces the runner to cutback. Someone (a Safety or LB) fill's the cutback lane. Somone (DB most likley) supports the tackle.

On an inside run the concept is similar. One players job is to clog the hole (Force), the one player has fill (cutback) and another player has spill (bounce). The secondary comes up to support.

Every play has a primary gap and every play has a "support" gaps on every run. A 4-3 MLB will have the strongisde "A" gap as a primary (steps into hole at action at hole) and weakside "B" and strongside "C" as fill gaps. A 4-3 WSB has weak "B" as his force (clog) and strong A as a "fill" and weak C as a "spill". Each DL is responsible for a gap as well (4-3 nose takes weakside A for example).

What does this have to do with NCAA 10's pursuit angle blog?

In the first video, the defense is playing a 5-2 defense. The defense is designed to turn everything inside. The ends should be "box" ends and force the cutback. The ILB force the "A" gap and have fill for everything else.

The defense is in man coverage with a slant away from the play. Both safeties are rolled up. Since there is a slant, the safety on the playside becomes the force player and the LB's gaps both change by one (Playside LB now has playside C as his primary)

Watch the ILBs. Playside should be heading downhill into C gap based on the RB's action. Backside should be watching playside A to C for the cutback.

Watch at the 1 second mark, look at the cutback lane that forms. The safety's job is to turn that play back. He should be heading to the has marks keeping outside leverage and forcing the cutback into his scraping LB.

Where is the LB? His gap is wide open. Why isn't the backside LB scraping over the top now that it's an outside play.

Why isn't the backside safety taking the secondary cutback lane (roughly on the backside hashes).He is running at the corner of the endzone. Sure, he makes the tackle, but that isn't his job.

Lets look at video 2:

We have a 4-3 defense with the LB's showing blitz. Before we get to the play itself, the defense is out of position, they have no pre-designated force defender. I'll assume it was to demonstrate the video.

Based on the DE and OLB actions, the safety is the force defender (responsible to turn play inside)...from 10 yards deep. His first step at action at him should be 45 degrees towards the sideline to force the cutback. He falls for a non-existent counter and then turns to match the HB's shoulders.

If thats a back with speed (and not demonstrating a video) he's untouched for a TD with that type of play.

Those pursuit angles are just as bad as the 09 ones. Instead of "twitch" TDs by heading the sideline, they are going to be cutback across the field TD's...or untouched around the corner touchdowns.

They changed the pursuit logic sure, but they didn't make it realistic. It's imply a different kind of wrong.

sad thing is... I never thought about that...

but your exactly right.
 
Copy and paste from my post over at OS

Firstly, I'll address why this isn't in the pursuit angle thread:
1) It'll get lost in the trash
2) It's about more then just pursuit angles

What is this post about anyway? I'm not going to complain about "twitchyness" or broken animations. My concern is defense with regardless to angles and assignments. A good defense requires discipline first and foremost. Each players has a responsibility on every type of play.

On a run you have a few basic "jobs". Force, Fill/Spill and Support. On an outside pitch or sweep, someone (corner or safety) forces the runner to cutback. Someone (a Safety or LB) fill's the cutback lane. Somone (DB most likley) supports the tackle.

On an inside run the concept is similar. One players job is to clog the hole (Force), the one player has fill (cutback) and another player has spill (bounce). The secondary comes up to support.

Every play has a primary gap and every play has a "support" gaps on every run. A 4-3 MLB will have the strongisde "A" gap as a primary (steps into hole at action at hole) and weakside "B" and strongside "C" as fill gaps. A 4-3 WSB has weak "B" as his force (clog) and strong A as a "fill" and weak C as a "spill". Each DL is responsible for a gap as well (4-3 nose takes weakside A for example).

What does this have to do with NCAA 10's pursuit angle blog?

In the first video, the defense is playing a 5-2 defense. The defense is designed to turn everything inside. The ends should be "box" ends and force the cutback. The ILB force the "A" gap and have fill for everything else.

The defense is in man coverage with a slant away from the play. Both safeties are rolled up. Since there is a slant, the safety on the playside becomes the force player and the LB's gaps both change by one (Playside LB now has playside C as his primary)

Watch the ILBs. Playside should be heading downhill into C gap based on the RB's action. Backside should be watching playside A to C for the cutback.

Watch at the 1 second mark, look at the cutback lane that forms. The safety's job is to turn that play back. He should be heading to the has marks keeping outside leverage and forcing the cutback into his scraping LB.

Where is the LB? His gap is wide open. Why isn't the backside LB scraping over the top now that it's an outside play.

Why isn't the backside safety taking the secondary cutback lane (roughly on the backside hashes).He is running at the corner of the endzone. Sure, he makes the tackle, but that isn't his job.

Lets look at video 2:

We have a 4-3 defense with the LB's showing blitz. Before we get to the play itself, the defense is out of position, they have no pre-designated force defender. I'll assume it was to demonstrate the video.

Based on the DE and OLB actions, the safety is the force defender (responsible to turn play inside)...from 10 yards deep. His first step at action at him should be 45 degrees towards the sideline to force the cutback. He falls for a non-existent counter and then turns to match the HB's shoulders.

If thats a back with speed (and not demonstrating a video) he's untouched for a TD with that type of play.

Those pursuit angles are just as bad as the 09 ones. Instead of "twitch" TDs by heading the sideline, they are going to be cutback across the field TD's...or untouched around the corner touchdowns.

They changed the pursuit logic sure, but they didn't make it realistic. It's imply a different kind of wrong.

Great post... inspired me to take a second look, and I wanted to point a few things out.

First off, look at the weakside end in the first NCAA '10 video. This is the biggest problem I've found so far... he actually fulfills his responsibility for a moment... then, before the back has crossed the line of scrimmage, he actually turns his back on the play and retreats back across the line, pursuing behind the linebackers!

Also, as you said, the line crashed weak, and it appears Will is shooting the "A" gap. This means that, with the play-side end crashing inside, his responsibility is taken by Sam, and the SS becomes the primary, with the cornerback playing force because the defense is a man short on the playside. However- the Sam and the SS both step big into the middle of the field as though they're reading dive!

Clearly even NCAA's flawed logic isn't this stupid, so my conclusion is that there is someone playing the defense and committed inside run immediately at the snap. Either that, or the play is an all-out inside blitz... though I can't really imagine a scenario where you'd slant the line weak and dog the weakside "A" gap. Then again, I'm an offensive guy, so who knows. Maybe a delayed blitz, but it still seems like you'd create more pointless traffic than penetration, and probably leave a gap unmanned.

Second video-- defense is showing blitz and rushing the same number of players as there are blockers. This makes me think they might be trying to cover up some tech in the blocking (double teams?).

Secondly, that's not 4-3, that's nickle showing blitz and man-aligned. D-Line is shifted weak, Sam is in the strongside "B" gap, Will is in the weakside "A" gap. Will gets mangled, caught up in trash. The two men in pursuit are the free safety (who makes the tackle) and Sam (next closest). As you said... non-existent counter, which I observed in the first video as well.

I think in both of these cases we're seeing a player-2 committing inside or a very low difficulty level, because while the defense is taking better angles, it's actually making worse decisions based on non-existent input. In both cases, the offensive line absolutely ate up the defensive line, but I didn't see anyone on the ground... which tells me we're looking at either Freshman or a ridiculously high tuned RBK slider.

Not trying to argue with your point, really, just reinforcing it a bit but also adding some devil's advocate.
 
Not just here, but at OS they are making a point about the difficulty level/user manipulation as well.

That still doesn't change the fact that the defenders are seeing ghost plays. Alright, it's on freshman so the safety can't keep contain, that's cool. But why are the LB's playing counter? Why is a backside ending running to the corner of the endzone. Why is the FS bolting for the endzone instead of playing the cutback.

There doesn't appear to be any sort of real play recognition going on. They may be recognizing run....but then playing a "dive" on a stretch play. That's no good.

The difficulty level should adjust reaction time (they see the player slower...stand around for a second), tackling, blocking and possibly speed.

Regardless of difficulty, nobody on the defense makes a real attempt to fulfill an assignment.
 
Not just here, but at OS they are making a point about the difficulty level/user manipulation as well.

That still doesn't change the fact that the defenders are seeing ghost plays. Alright, it's on freshman so the safety can't keep contain, that's cool. But why are the LB's playing counter? Why is a backside ending running to the corner of the endzone. Why is the FS bolting for the endzone instead of playing the cutback.

There doesn't appear to be any sort of real play recognition going on. They may be recognizing run....but then playing a "dive" on a stretch play. That's no good.

The difficulty level should adjust reaction time (they see the player slower...stand around for a second), tackling, blocking and possibly speed.

Regardless of difficulty, nobody on the defense makes a real attempt to fulfill an assignment.

If the user is telling the computer to react to a ghost play, then they should react to a ghost play. That's all I'm saying. Yes, the logic is flawed, but my view, seeing everything, is "we're on our way".
 
I just watched the video. One significant problem in NCAA has been fixed. Hopefully many more to come.
 
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