• Rules and regulations here: http://www.virtualsportsnetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?133219-VSN-Secret-Santa-Donation-Drive-Raffle-Waffle-Maynard-is-Awful&p=2346085#post2346085
  • We have just launched a new VSN Amazon Store. This new store will allow you to order games (including PC downloads) and anything else you want from Amazon and help VSN out at the same time! You get the exact same deals and pre-order bonuses through our store front as you do from Amazon so please bookmark this link and use it when you are shopping at Amazon.com - [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/"][COLOR="#0000FF"][U]VSN Amazon Store[/U][/COLOR][/URL] Here are some direct links to pre-order the major upcoming titles- [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9WK2"]PlayStation 4 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVBPRUO"]PlayStation 4 Gold Wireless Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9X9W"]PlayStation 4 DualShock 4 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA3S2"]PlayStation 4 Camera[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DCBDNW6"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J128FPA"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVC4"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GG4BBUM"]MLB 14: The Show[/URL] - May 6th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39KS"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BI83EVU"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHTQ"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574EW"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39HQ"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9ZZ4"]Drive Club[/URL] - September 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUSY"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9S6E"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00C27SCC2"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5YU"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA0SU"]inFAMOUS Second Son Limited Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FYIXMHQ"]inFAMOUS Second Son Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK1IG"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00B0JALUE"]PlayStation 3 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00AEX81SG"]PlayStation 3 250GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAIE"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY30"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2ZW"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2P2"]Red Faction Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESXSA"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV98"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J6DLPLK"]Drakengard 3[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGHUS58"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHZ0"]Watch Dogs Collectors Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHK0"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHP28Y"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQTFI"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBTCQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HNYWFMC"]Far Cry Compilation [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSIA"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFPZO"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92MU"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP3S"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFCC"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHPK"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD52"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2AK"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2FK"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUUC0"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZYA"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2O4"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox One[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTVUA"]Xbox One Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00MCLFZ1Y"]Xbox One Console Madden 15 Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IIHU44E"]Xbox One Console Titanfall Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVPFGD8"]Titanfall Limited Edition Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUSS"]Xbox One Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDQCK"]Xbox One Stereo Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDOS6"]Xbox One Stereo Headset Adapter[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OB8S"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUCE"]KINECT Sports: Rivals[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVA6"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15h [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESTZW"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39L2"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CX8VY4S"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQI0E"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574CO"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH2HKU"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39EO"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUNO"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAS7E"]Zoo Tycoon[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9SLE"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CYNTHA0"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DB9JYFY"]Titanfall[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSX86"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5WC"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2MQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox 360[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FATRKOK"]Xbox 360 250GB Holiday Value Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ9ESEE"]Xbox 360 250GB Console w/Halo 4, Darksiders II, Tomb Raider and Batman: Arkham City[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B003ZSP0WW"]Xbox 360 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC9SWWE"]Titanfall[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSWZU"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OBB0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY7G"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2G6"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESY6G"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV7K"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGD6LMG"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHNC"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHL4"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHY7LC"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQQUQ"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBVZQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAT3W"]Fable Anniversary[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSJ4"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFQ2Q"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92EI"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP2Y"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFA4"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHTQ"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD6Q"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD26Y"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD27I"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUXLS"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZPE"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2RQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Wii U[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAM0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 22nd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESQKU"]The Amazing Spider-man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7G2W8"]Mario Kart 8[/URL] - May 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH1LJ8"]Transformers Rise of the Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7O77A"]Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOAX34"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL]
  • We are looking to possibly form a second XB1 Madden 15 league on VSN. Please visit the Sports Gaming subforum and post in the thread if you are interested.
  • There will be a site outage from 12 pm est till 3 am est
  • If you are having trouble accessing your account and don't remember your password, email help@virtualsportsnetwork.com and i'll get you an updated password for 2024.

Oliver Stone's Secret History to Put Hitler, Stalin into Context

EmpireWF

Giants in the Super Bowl
He first announced he's doing the 10-hour documentary series today so not sure when it will actually make Showtime.

http://www.thrfeed.com/2010/01/oliver-stone-history-america.html

Oliver Stone's 'Secret History' to put Hitler 'in context'

TCA -- Director Oliver Stone's upcoming Showtime documentary miniseries "Secret History of America" promises to put mass murderers such as Stalin and Hitler "in context."

"Stalin, Hitler, Mao, McCarthy -- these people have been vilified pretty thoroughly by history," Stone told reporters at the Television Critics Association's semi-annual press tour in Pasadena.

"Stalin has a complete other story," Stone said. "Not to paint him as a hero, but to tell a more factual representation. He fought the German war machine more than any single person. We can't judge people as only 'bad' or 'good.' Hitler is an easy scapegoat throughout history and its been used cheaply. He's the product of a series of actions. It's cause and effect ... People in America don't know the connection between WWI and WWII ... I've been able to walk in Stalin's shoes and Hitler's shoes to understand their point of view. We're going to educate our minds and liberalize them and broaden them. We want to move beyond opinions ... Go into the funding of the Nazi party. How many American corporations were involved, from GM through IBM. Hitler is just a man who could have easily been assassinated."

The controversial director's 10-part documentary series for Showtime promises to focus on events that "at the time went under-reported, but crucially shaped America's unique and complex history of the last 60 years." Subjects in "History" include President Harry Truman’s decision to drop the atomic bomb on Japan and the origins of the Cold War with the Soviet Union.

"You cannot approach history unless you have empathy for the person you may hate," Stone said during the show's trailer, which promised to put historical villains "in context." "I don't want to put out conventional History Channel product where it's easy to like it."

"He's not saying we're going to come out with a more positive view of Hitler," emphasized professor Peter Kuznick, the lead writer on the project. "But we're going to describe him as a historical phenomenon and not just somebody who appeared out of nowhere."

Stone said that conservative pundits will dislike the show.

"Obviously, Rush Limbaugh is not going to like this history and, as usual, we're going to get those kind of ignorant attacks," said Stone, who also also compared the experience of sympathizing with war criminals to making his "W" movie about George W. Bush. "I'm trying to understand somebody I thoroughly despised."

Stone also warned that the same military industrial complex forces that he's explored in movies such as "JFK" and in "Secret History," are now corrupting Barack Obama.

"You can understand why Obama is following in Bush's footsteps in Afghanistan," Stone said."Obama is very much trapped, we believe, in that system. And so that's what we're going to try and show you -- the way it works."

The project will also show lesser-known positive aspects of American history and unsung heroes. Stone eventually hopes to send "Secret History" to schools as a teaching curriculum.

"It would be a very different counterweight to what they're learning," Stone said. "Nobody is going to force it down anybody's throat."

A critic also asked Stone "the Sarah Palin question" of what he likes to read.

"My father was a voracious New York Times reader," he said. "We consider that in The Middle. Sarah Palin would disagree."
 
I cannot even put into words how unbelievably retarded the entire article I just read was. Oliver Stone is one of the most ignorant, idiotic motherfuckers alive today. You cannot try and put Hitler into context, he was possibly the most evil person to have ever existed.
 
im interested, but confused, of course there could be alot we don't know, history is written by the victors and all...
 
didn't say they did, and really whos to know if they did or didn't, just that it will be interesting to hear another view point,
 
Last edited:
The recent theft and retrieval of the infamous "Arbeit Macht Frei" ("Work Sets You Free") sign that marks the gateway into Auschwitz has reignited debate over what should be done with the sombre monument to one of humanity's darkest hours.

Last week Poland's culture minister promised the equivalent of $137,000 for improving security at the site where more than one million people died during the Holocaust.

But Robert Jan Van Pelt, an architectural historian and a leading expert on Auschwitz, says it may be time to consider other strategies for the site, which is split into two camps, Auschwitz and Birkenau. They sprawl over nearly 500 acres.

Van Pelt, a professor at the University of Waterloo, suggests the museum consider sealing off the Birkenau death camp, where 95 per cent of the murders took place, and letting nature take over. We asked him to explain.

Why have you have posited that Birkenau should be closed up and reclaimed by nature?

There is a present problem of preservation in Auschwitz. The place that is actually well-preserved – that's where the museum is. But the site of Birkenau, a couple kilometres away, where the murders happened, is falling apart. That camp was very hastily constructed. The buildings were built to have a lifespan of two to three years. They were built from recycled bricks. When they ran out of recycled bricks, the SS bought from the German army prefab horse stables. In 1945, when the war came to an end, these horse stables were very valuable because they were kind of instant housing for someone who needed it. So people had the idea that the best thing that they could do was to pick up all of these horse stables – and there's like 500 of them – take them apart, put them on the train and send them to Warsaw. By 1948 all of the brick barracks in Birkenau were already falling apart. Each of the old horse stables had two stoves inside with two brick chimneys that were not taken to Warsaw.

So you had this very weird landscape – and you still have that – where you get these small, primitive brick chimneys rising three metres out of the ground. They don't have any other bracing and if you have a storm they blow over. But of course the chimneys themselves – altogether there are hundreds of them – create a very powerful symbolic landscape because we associate Birkenau with the chimneys of the crematoria. Those crematoria aren't there anymore, they were blown up by the Germans and one of them was blown up by the prisoners in 1944. So because there are only these ruins of the crematoria and because people expect to see chimneys in some way, that field of small chimneys that are the leftovers of the barracks creates a kind of landscape that people in some way associate with the killing and the burning of the bodies of the victims.

By allowing nature to take over the site, do we run the risk of allowing humanity to forget what happened and set the stage for future questioning of the Holocaust?

Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge.
I don't think that the Holocaust is an exceptional case in that sense. We in the future – remembering the Holocaust – will operate in the same way that we remember most things from the past. We will know about it from literature and eyewitness testimony. . . . We are very successful in remembering the past in that manner. That's how we know that Cesar was killed on the Ides of March. To put the holocaust in some separate category and to demand that it be there – to demand that we have more material evidence – is actually us somehow giving in to the Holocaust deniers by providing some sort of special evidence.

Why has the site not been closed off already?

In 1959, a proposal was made to let nature take over the camp. The museum wanted to seal the gates and let everything fall into disrepair. The idea was that this spot represented a place where humanity failed in such a monumental way that we really have no business maintaining it.

At that time the survivors opposed that proposal. They said `You cannot lock us out of our own experience. We suffered here; we need to be able to return to the site where we suffered.'

Fifty years later, we are facing the end of the age of the survivors – the age of the witnesses – and I think when the last survivor of the Holocaust has died, when that almost silent passing happens, we as a civilization or as a species should mark this.

And (what) if no one was going to provide the funds to preserve this site? My response to that challenge is `So what? Maybe it's not so bad if this site is erased.' But if indeed there is a moment when we can surrender this site to nature, we cannot do that before the last survivor dies.

The chairman of the international Auschwitz council says the decision should be left to those who died at Auschwitz. Do we have any insight – recorded statements from victims before they died – on what they wanted to be done with the site?

No. So when you call on the victims to some way indicate what happened at the site we can only talk about the survivors. But can survivors really represent those who died? The survivors can do that to a degree, but once they are dead I don't think it's our place to interpret. This is a decision that we have to take as the living. The earth belongs to the living. It is the living that have to make the tough decisions.

It is fine with me if we the living decide that this site should be preserved and . . . we are willing to spend the money to maintain the site in a proper way . . . that somehow leaves the dignity of the place intact. I'm not going to quarrel with that. But that means we as a worldwide society are actually accepting responsibility for the site – and putting resources toward that.
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/742965--a-case-for-letting-nature-take-back-auschwitz

I'm not saying it didn't happen (in fact I know it did, I just like to take up the wrong sides of arguments) just that there is little to no physical evidence of alot of the things that are claimed to have happened during the holocaust. Of course I totally missed the point of this article like I always do but get over it
 
Last edited:
I cannot even put into words how unbelievably retarded the entire article I just read was. Oliver Stone is one of the most ignorant, idiotic motherfuckers alive today. You cannot try and put Hitler into context, he was possibly the most evil person to have ever existed.

Not trying to bash you but i dont see any problem with what he sets out to do in this article. Why not put these people and their actions into context. I mean do you know some of the real reasons, off the top of your head with out doing any research how and why Hitler justified what he wanted to do/did.

To simply say he hated Jews is not enough. There is no context to that. Yet that is what 90% percent of the world thinks about him which is far from the truth. I am not defending him and his actions in any way by the way, but whats wrong with delving deeper into his thought process.
 
I cannot even put into words how unbelievably retarded the entire article I just read was. Oliver Stone is one of the most ignorant, idiotic motherfuckers alive today. You cannot try and put Hitler into context, he was possibly the most evil person to have ever existed.

His comments on Stalin were ridiculous:

"Stalin has a complete other story," Stone said. "Not to paint him as a hero, but to tell a more factual representation. He fought the German war machine more than any single person. We can't judge people as only 'bad' or 'good.'

There really isn't any mystery to Stalin. There is no 'other story'. His hunger for power made him paranoid, which contributed to his ruthlessness (and, eventually his downfall). Even to claim that he 'fought the German war machine' is only a half-truth....Stalin engaged the Germans only after they threatened his power by invading Russia...and when the brutal Russian winter turned back the German troops, Stalin saw this as a great opportunity for Russia to "re-take" all the Eastern European countries which Hitler had conveniently laid in shambles for Stalin.

I am not aware of an 'other story'.
 
Not trying to bash you but i dont see any problem with what he sets out to do in this article. Why not put these people and their actions into context. I mean do you know some of the real reasons, off the top of your head with out doing any research how and why Hitler justified what he wanted to do/did.

To simply say he hated Jews is not enough. There is no context to that. Yet that is what 90% percent of the world thinks about him which is far from the truth. I am not defending him and his actions in any way by the way, but whats wrong with delving deeper into his thought process.

So Stone is going to put into context hundreds of years of anti-semetism in Germany and Europe/the world at large?

This entire premise sounds fucking retarded and seems like nothing more than Stone going for shock value.

And Brees, don't even entertain the thought of Holocaust denial.....Come on. 99%? Yeah except for the systematic records of the executions, the gas chambers, the admissions from the SS, etc. Eye witness testimony etc.

This will be an even bigger steaming pile than JFK was.

Basically the just of what Stone is saying and the way that he is setting this up is as a Hitler/Stalin apologist piece.

For anyone with actual wants to learn about the Third Reich and how it formed the context of it and the history of it I suggest reading: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer. Tremendous book.
 
Last edited:
I agree with you FT, and Epidemik in a sense at the same time.

Context is important, but I just wish it were SOMEONE other than Stone (outside of that other fucktard Moore) doing this. A documentary putting monsters like Stalin and Hitler into context could and would be great by the right people. Just not Oliver fucking Stone. Come on now.
 
I agree with you FT, and Epidemik in a sense at the same time.

Context is important, but I just wish it were SOMEONE other than Stone (outside of that other fucktard Moore) doing this. A documentary putting monsters like Stalin and Hitler into context could and would be great by the right people. Just not Oliver fucking Stone. Come on now.

I see what you are saying and yes it's important to put Hitler and Stalin in context..of how they came to be the monsters that they were but the way Stone is painting this from his interviews is that they had no other choice and were driven to be what they were by outside forces and with American corporate help. That's fucking ridiculous.

I think many Americans understand some of the connection between the peace to end WWI and how it ushered in WWII. Sure, explore that deeper and show how the ends of wars can have consequences for the future and make future wars but don't present this BS about how it's too simple to say Hitler and Stalin were "bad" and act as though you will shed a new light on it so people say "Wow, that Hitler guy put up with a lot. I can kind of see his point."

You can show context of their lives while still showing them to be the lunatics, madmen, and mass murderes that they were.
 
It's a good idea, but yeah I think it's going to be executed poorly. There's nothing wrong with trying to put these guys into context. Both did some good things for sure, before they got hungry with power and took everything too far (that's not debatable).
 
I see what you are saying and yes it's important to put Hitler and Stalin in context..of how they came to be the monsters that they were but the way Stone is painting this from his interviews is that they had no other choice and were driven to be what they were by outside forces and with American corporate help. That's fucking ridiculous.

I think many Americans understand some of the connection between the peace to end WWI and how it ushered in WWII. Sure, explore that deeper and show how the ends of wars can have consequences for the future and make future wars but don't present this BS about how it's too simple to say Hitler and Stalin were "bad" and act as though you will shed a new light on it so people say "Wow, that Hitler guy put up with a lot. I can kind of see his point."

You can show context of their lives while still showing them to be the lunatics, madmen, and mass murderes that they were.

Totally agree. Was basically what I was trying to say. Stone comes off like a fucking moron (surprised?) in that piece.

And regarding WWI and how it ushered in WWII, I again agree. Although in my experience, I would say that many Americans don't understand WWI's gravity at all, let alone how it ushered in WWII.
 
Back
Top