Randy Moss retires.

[Cornelius]

I refuse to imagine.
Immense talent (Barry, Jeff George ,Moss) usually leads to questionable desire.
Its those guys with 1 or 2 elite physical traits that happens to have hof drive(Rice, Brady ,Emmitt) that usually make the difference and end up as winners and record holders.

Its extremely rare to see freakish physical gifts meet world class desire....let alone have that avoid injury. Psychology and numbers make it rare.

One perfect example of it happening is going to the hof this year.

Fuck you and your "Barry had no desire". When you get done sucking Emmitt's cock, wipe your mouth. Emmitt's "drive" turned him into a broken down old man on a joke of a team struggling to create an untouchable record.

 

[NAHSTE]

Fuck you and your "Barry had no desire". When you get done sucking Emmitt's cock, wipe your mouth. Emmitt's "drive" turned him into a broken down old man on a joke of a team struggling to create an untouchable record.

I don't think he is saying it in an absolute sense. Obviously it takes a tremendous amount of hard work and desire to become a professional athlete to begin with. But it's all relative, and it's hard to say Barry had as much true passion for the game as some of his peers.

Either way, I think Barry shits all over Emmitt.

 

[Cornelius]

it's hard to say Barry had as much true passion for the game as some of his peers.

He carried one of the worst franchises in league history on his back for his whole career. LOL@not as much true passion.

Btw, it's not too hard to say.

 

[NAHSTE]

He carried one of the worst franchises in league history on his back for his whole career. LOL@not as much true passion.

Btw, it's not too hard to say.

He also had many interests outside of the game and walked away from it fairly quickly. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

He also had many interests outside of the game and walked away from it fairly quickly. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all.

He's one of the all time quitters.
As a person theres nothing wrong with it. But in an athletic sense if someone doesnt see anything wrong with what he and say Ricky Williams did I dont know what to tell you.

We're talking about athletes , athletic skills , heart , and desire. You cant have that discussion in modern NFL terms without talking about the names I mentioned. When you go position by position at the top handful of guys ever...you can almost always name a better physical specimen who played during his time. The accolades , the rings , the accomplishments are usually laid on the men with the desire.
Just in our gen
Jeff George , Dickerson ,Barry Sanders , Moss , Ricky Williams ,Haynseworth
All lasted a long time , some had spurts or even years of dominance. Moss elevated his teams to elite status that noone outside of QB can compare.
Yet none will ever be considered the best despite outclassing everyone in there league at there positions in raw talent.None have any hardware and only one has an all time record of any significance.

Rice , Brady ,Payton, Emmitt , Faulk , John Randle
Inferior physically , vastly superior mentally. Theres 11 rings between them and a stack of all time records.Its not a coincidence or luck.

I dont waste time imagining what coulda been. Just appreciate what has been and try and put it in perspective. We're not talking injuries cutting a career short ..these men all made choices. The second group consistently made the ones to try to be the best.


My point is with Moss is even with his lack of desire , his lack of opportunities because of his position , he made a bigger impact than any non QB of any offensive player this gen maybe ever.That type of pure physical dominance is almost unheard of.

 

[NAHSTE]

My point is with Moss is even with his lack of desire , his lack of opportunities because of his position , he made a bigger impact than any non QB of any offensive player this gen maybe ever.That type of pure physical dominance is almost unheard of.

Yep, and ultimately isn't that worth celebrating? It's like when people bitch that Chris Webber should have been more successful ... He probably could have been better but he still was one of the best basketball players to ever live and made enough money to feed four generations of his family, what exactly is wrong with that?

Despite all that he wasn't, Moss was a legendary football player and we will all remember his playing days for a long time. To say he should have done more is nitpicking, IMO.

 

[Acesuper]

If I smoked with him, I would probably be on his level. And be like "Ooh, okay, that is why you were such a punk. Cause of this and this. Or because you believed in it." But because I haven't smoked with him and only know what I see about him..then yeah I think he is partially a punk.

But to tell you the honest truth...I'm just glad I'm not going to have to cover his ass deep in Madden with my weak 49ers secondary.

straight dropping the spinning catch on Goldson, Clements and Lewis/Mays. Swag no more you Deep Bombers.

So I'm happy.

 

[Irish]

My first video game purchase as a young 10 year old. Time to break out the Dreamcast one last time.

 

[NAHSTE]

"Toss to Moss" was the go-to video game cheese for a solid 5 year stretch when I was in high school. No other athlete besides Tecmo Bo Jackson, and maybe Boswer from Mario Baseball, can claim such a ubiquitous strategy built solely around them.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Yep, and ultimately isn't that worth celebrating? It's like when people bitch that Chris Webber should have been more successful ... He probably could have been better but he still was one of the best basketball players to ever live and made enough money to feed four generations of his family, what exactly is wrong with that?

Despite all that he wasn't, Moss was a legendary football player and we will all remember his playing days for a long time. To say he should have done more is nitpicking, IMO.

If you see my original point and response it was just that. Im not going to bother imagining. That amount of talent usually ends up with lowered desire and work ethic. Its that way in most professions athletic or not.

I personally have always been in awe of Moss career. It really really wouldnt have taken much to easily be the best ever. I only wonder why someone doesnt want that. Learn a few more routes , play half ass "slightly" less , dont take entire seasons off. In return you are considered THE best at what you do.

As it is hes the best weapon Ive ever seen.Im perfectly content with that. Merely wonder why the mental aspect was missing.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

"Toss to Moss" was the go-to video game cheese for a solid 5 year stretch when I was in high school. No other athlete besides Tecmo Bo Jackson, and maybe Boswer from Mario Baseball, can claim such a ubiquitous strategy built solely around them.

If Moss would have landed on the eagles last season all video hell would have broken loose.

 

[NAHSTE]

If you see my original point and response it was just that. Im not going to bother imagining. That amount of talent usually ends up with lowered desire and work ethic. Its that way in most professions athletic or not.

I personally have always been in awe of Moss career. It really really wouldnt have taken much to easily be the best ever. I only wonder why someone doesnt want that. Learn a few more routes , play half ass "slightly" less , dont take entire seasons off. In return you are considered THE best at what you do.

As it is hes the best weapon Ive ever seen.Im perfectly content with that. Merely wonder why the mental aspect was missing.

Yeah and I totally agree with your original post. It's just too hard to speculate "oh well if he tried more he'd shatter Rice's records" ... Rice's records are so retarded that chances are even at 100% effort Moss doesn't come close to touching those records. As it is he'll have to settle for only being one of the most amazingly talented players to ever play. Wonder how he'll sleep at night.

It's easy to try to compare athletes to the ideal athlete who has the most talent but also works the hardest, but that athlete is the ideal for a reason. It doesn't exist.

 

[nflman2033]

The most dangerous offensive weapon in the history of the NFL? I'm in an airplane right now so I can't get too in depth but Moss improved every offense he was on dramatically, I don't think any single player changed an offense's production single handedly like he did. Unless the old guys here know of someone I don't.

every offense except the Raiders and the Titans

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The Randy Ratio.

 

[Woy]

every offense except the Raiders and the Titans

Against the Dolphins, he actually did improve the offense in a way because Fisher actually played the guy and although he didn't catch many passes, his presence took 8 and 9 guys out of the box to load up on CJ and Johnson responded with one of his best games of the year.

 

[Senser81]

Listening to Mike and Mike this morning (unfortunately), and they both emphatically said they would take Terrell Owens over Randy Moss. HUH? Its amazing to me how recent events skew historical perspective. They said Moss was a problem in the locker room...but Owens wasn't? They said Moss didn't block on running plays...but Owens did? Owens had a body like Art Monk on steroids, but he didn't have the desire to block.

The part that annoyed me was when they said Owens would catch passes over the middle and Moss wouldn't. From what I remember of Owens, he would drop passes if a defender was closing on him. He wasn't really an "over the middle" guy, either.

To me, its no contest. Moss was faster and had much better hands than Owens.

 

[Senser81]

He's one of the all time quitters.
As a person theres nothing wrong with it. But in an athletic sense if someone doesnt see anything wrong with what he and say Ricky Williams did I dont know what to tell you.

Just in our gen
Jeff George , Dickerson ,Barry Sanders , Moss , Ricky Williams ,Haynseworth
All lasted a long time , some had spurts or even years of dominance. Moss elevated his teams to elite status that noone outside of QB can compare.
Yet none will ever be considered the best despite outclassing everyone in there league at there positions in raw talent.None have any hardware and only one has an all time record of any significance.

Kind of a ridiculous statement concerning Sanders. The guy played for 10 years and averaged 300+ carries a season. He is still 6th all-time in rushing attempts. I don't really think thats quitting in mid-career.

Its funny how you've turned Sanders' strengths into weaknesses. Sanders wasn't flashy. He rarely spoke to the media. He just did his job and was very consistent. When he retired, there was no fanfare. Compare that to Emmitt Smith, who would routinely get unsportsmanlike conduct penalties for taking his helmet off after scoring a TD, and who hung around 3 years too long just to break Payton's record.

I still consider Sanders to be better than Smith, despite not having the all-time rushing record. If having the record changes your opinion in the Sanders/Smith debate, then basically what you are doing is rewarding Smith for staying on for those 3 extra seasons he needed to break Payton's record, and also saying that those 3 extra seasons made Smith "greater" than Sanders, which is a joke.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Listening to Mike and Mike this morning (unfortunately), and they both emphatically said they would take Terrell Owens over Randy Moss. HUH? Its amazing to me how recent events skew historical perspective. They said Moss was a problem in the locker room...but Owens wasn't? They said Moss didn't block on running plays...but Owens did? Owens had a body like Art Monk on steroids, but he didn't have the desire to block.

The part that annoyed me was when they said Owens would catch passes over the middle and Moss wouldn't. From what I remember of Owens, he would drop passes if a defender was closing on him. He wasn't really an "over the middle" guy, either.

To me, its no contest. Moss was faster and had much better hands than Owens.

Owens had infamous "alligator arms" over the middle, to the point it became a running joke.

Owens was stronger and tougher to bring down. That's really the only edge he ever had on Moss, but at the same time it's a pretty low ranking skill/requirement for an NFL WR. And while Moss loafed in Oakland and probably loafed in Tennessee (that situation was a mess, so who knows), Owens loafed for nearly every team he ever played for once he wore out his welcome, and destroyed three locker rooms in the process.

 

[nflman2033]

Listening to Mike and Mike this morning (unfortunately), and they both emphatically said they would take Terrell Owens over Randy Moss. HUH? Its amazing to me how recent events skew historical perspective. They said Moss was a problem in the locker room...but Owens wasn't? They said Moss didn't block on running plays...but Owens did? Owens had a body like Art Monk on steroids, but he didn't have the desire to block.

The part that annoyed me was when they said Owens would catch passes over the middle and Moss wouldn't. From what I remember of Owens, he would drop passes if a defender was closing on him. He wasn't really an "over the middle" guy, either.

To me, its no contest. Moss was faster and had much better hands than Owens.

Hilarious, Owens not a problem in locker room, catching over the middle, sure maybe more than moss, but certainly not one of his strengths

 

[Tailback U]

I wrote this one night about 8 months ago while stoned and on adderall.

I don't even know why I'm posting it, really, but now or never:

This is somewhat of a rhetorical question, because we all know that Jerry Rice is the greatest wide receiver of all time.

But listen to me for a second while I play devil's advocate.

First and foremost, let's look at the quarterbacks.

1997: Brad Johnson and the Vikings go 9-7, tallying up 354 points on offense (22.1ppg) with Johnson throwing for 3,036 yards, 20 TDs, and 12 INTs. Robert Smith averaged 5.5ypc while running for 1,266 yards and 6 TDs. Cris Carter caught 89 balls for 1,069 yards and 13 TDs. Jake Reed hauled in another 68 for 1,138 yards and 6 TDs. Needless to say, a pretty damn good offense.

1998: Insert Randy Moss and a 35 year old Randall Cunningham, who hadn't completed a full season since 1990. The Vikings go 15-1, put up 556 points on offense (34.8ppg), and Cunningham throws for 3,704 yards, 34 TDs, and 10 INTs.

Cunningham, who averaged a 81.5 QB rating during his career posts a QB rating of 106.0 and nearly doubles his career TD% from 4.8 to 8.0. He averages 8.7 yards per completion, by far the highest during a career in which he averaged 7.0 yards per completion.

The lone difference? Randy Moss. Moss replaces Jake Reed as the deep threat in the Vikings offense, and in his rookie season, starts 11 games and hauls in 68 passes, 1317 yards, and 17 touchdowns. Moss averages 19.03 yards per catch on the year.

1999: The Vikings start off 2-4 and bench Cunningham for throwing 9 INTs through the first 6 games. Insert Jeff George, who steps in and completes 58% of his passes, goes 8-2 on the season and has his best season ever in terms of TD% (7.0) and YPC (14.7).

The Vikings finish 10-6, beat the Cowboys in the wildcard round and lose the following week the St. Louis Rams. Moss, who is no secret to NFL defenses in his 2nd season, averages 17.7 yards per catch while hauling in 80 passes for 1413 yards and 11 TDs.

2000: Rookie quarterback Daunte Culpepper is named the starter. Moss continues to strike fear into defenses, showing that it really doesn't matter who is throwing him the ball, by catching 77 balls for 1413 yards and 15 touchdowns. The Vikings go 11-5 and lose in the NFC championship game.

2001: Culpepper starts off 4-7 despite completing 64.2% of his passes, throwing 14 TDs and 13 INTs in 11 games before suffering a season ending knee injury. Quarterbacks Todd Bouman and Spergon Wynn would step in for Culpepper and go 1-5. Moss posts 82 catches, 1233 yards, and 10 TDs while catching passes from 3 different quarterbacks.

2002: Cris Carter retires and Culpepper returns from his knee injury. Culpepper throws for nearly 4,000 yards, 18 TDs, but 23 interceptions. The Vikings defense ranks 30th in the league. Despite being surrounded by shitheads, Moss posts 106 receptions, 1347 yards, and 7 touchdowns.

2003: The Vikings start off 6-0. Culpepper throws 17 of his 25 touchdowns to Randy Moss. The Vikings offense puts up 26ppg, 6th in the NFL, with bums like Onterrio Smith and Moe Williams at HB, and Jim Kleinsasser and Nate Burleson at TE/WR. The Vikings would finish 9-7, Moss catches 111 balls, 1632 yards, and 17 TDs.

2004: The Vikings start the season 5-1. Moss starts the season hot, catching 8 touchdowns in the first 5 games before suffering a hamstring injury in week 6. Moss misses 6 games and is hampered by the injury all season long. Moss has his worst season as a pro, tallying 49 receptions for 767 yards and 13 TDs in 11 games. The Vikings average 25.3ppg (6th in the league) and would lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

2005 - 2007 The Vikings trade Randy Moss to Oakland and watch their scoring production fall from 25.3ppg (6th) to 19.2 (19th) in just 1 season. Culpepper throws 6 TDs and 12 INTs to go 2-6 before losing his job to Brad Johnson.

As expected, Moss' numbers drop in Oakland as the Raiders establish themselves as the worst franchise in sports history, losing 11 games or more for 7 straight seasons. Still, Moss puts up decent numbers, catching 60 balls for 1005 yards and 8 touchdowns from Kerry Collins, who had a history of drinking problems.

I guess I just kind of quit after this because I realized I was spending way too much time on this. I didn't even get into his New England days, which we all know about. Long story short: he broke receiving records and the Patriots put up more points than any team in history.

2007 Patriots (No Moss): 12-4, 385 points, 7th in NFL.
2008 Patriots (W/Moss): 16-0, 589 points, 1st in NFL.