[Spoilers] ASOIAF Book Readers GoT Show Discussion Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The lack of Coldhands is killing me. But yeah they basically needed a side adventure for him.

Probably the weakest writing on the show is coming at the hands of Bran.

However, I can see holding off on Coldy until maybe next season (so much stuff going on in this season...is it necessary so early?)...and right now, they are just in a holding pattern with Bran, so they throw him in a little adventure. Lame, but I have no other way of justifying where he is at right now.

 

[mgoblue2290]

Brans arc in ADwD is pretty minimal though isn't it? Also it seems we will be getting well into the Mereen plot this season.

In retrospect, maybe splitting the books by location wasn't such a bad idea.

 

[mgoblue2290]

For me Coldhands was essential in establishing that the Others weren't just nameless bad guys. One of them chose to go against them or at least it seems like he did. It also shows that some wights are different than others. Now that we've established Others have some form of society, you need establish that maybe not everyone agrees a with it.

 

[Villain]

People need to remember that the events in AFFC and ADWD happen at basically the same time. The next few seasons will be a blend of those two books if these writers have any clue as to what they are doing.

Also, I don't think Coldhands is an Other.

 

[Villain]

Great theories and analysis from reddit re: Night's King:

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/246kip/spoilers_all_what_do_we_know_about_the_nights_king/

Summary of information already known:

 

What do we know about The Night’s King?
He was the thirteenth commander of the Night’s Watch.
He was a Stark according to Old Nan.
He was made an Other, presumably by the female Other that he fell in love with.
He used sorcery to bind his brothers of the Night’s Watch to his will.
He and his queen ruled from the Nightfort.
Joramun of the wildlings and the Stark of Winterfell joined forces to defeat the Night’s King.
[The Night’s King] had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night’s Watch, [Old Nan] said; a warrior who knew no fear. “And that was the fault in him,” she would add, “for all men must know fear.” A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.
He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, the Night’s King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of the Night’s King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.
”Some say he was a Bolton,” Old Nan would always end. “Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down,” (ASOS 629).

My favorite bits of analysis:

 

After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of the Night’s King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

This passage stood out to me especially. Moqorro calls the Great Other "the Other, whose name may not be said.", and if I remember correctly, Melisandre does something similar too.

 

The legends say that the Others lost the War of the Long Night, partly due to the discovery of their weakness to the properties of obsidian. We've seen how VERY effective that is and so imagine the massacre that must have been, which probably badly diminished the numbers of the Others perhaps to near extinction.
What I think we know now, is that they don't procreate (which makes sense thematically because ice) but they spread by 'freezeing' humans and likely only children so that they can be assimilated. To our knowledge the only adult 'frozen' this way was the Night's King, who was likely turned for the express purpose of having children to give to the cold. Sadly he had only 13 years before he was defeated, lost his wife and fled north so probably only made a small number of children.
Craster is aged when we first meet him, and has been banging and breeding his entire life. He claims to have had over 100 sons, and likely all of them have gone to the cold and bolstered their numbers.
I suspect the reason the others have waited until now is not because of a magical casus belli or preemptive strike, but because they had not the strength in number until Craster supplied them with so many children to spread the cold curse and freeze the land to extend their control. The others are probably still not ready to attack in force or they would have overtaken Mance and the wildlings and an unprepared Night's Watch, so still they bide time for the future until Craster's death, and the end of their supply forces their hand.

There's also a fun theory about who's going to be the one holding Lightbringer:

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/246l5b/spoilers_all_did_barristan_the_bold_just_have_a/

 

Fuck, I just realized we're all still holding our breath...and when a situation can just as easily go one way or another, GRRM will always choose the path that proves his point with harsh reality. Dany will almost definitely go mad. Ser Jorah will return to plunge his sword through her heart and create lightbringer. It's Longclaw. He pulls it out of the sorting hat after Jon dies........

========

Think about it:
"reborn amongst smoke and salt"
the smoking sea.
Where is the smoking sea? the fastest route between slavers bay and westeros.
What is in the smoking sea? the valeryian steel sword Brightroar
. Who promised Ser Jorah a valeryian steel sword. Daenarys.
Who is in slaver's bay, who would like to go to Westeros? Daenarys.
Who pulled a sword out of water? Azor Ahai. He also pulled a sword out of a lion,a nd the woman he loves.
Who is a lion in proximity of Jorah? Tyrion
Who does Ser Jorah love? Daenarys.
Thus, Ser Jorah is Azor Ahai who will bring back Lightbringer from Brightroar by pulling it our of the Smoking Sea, and killing Tyrion and Daenarys with it.
Your tinfoil hat is in the mail.

:whoa:

 

[Villain]

Coldhands Theory for the show:

 

He was the one who killed the Night's Watch deserters at Craster's Keep in the books. There's a chance that this could be the way he enters the show.

 

[Palooza]

Coldhands Theory for the show:

 

He was the one who killed the Night's Watch deserters at Craster's Keep in the books. There's a chance that this could be the way he enters the show.

I was in the spoilerbox last night with the same idea. When Meera was about to get raped I thought we were getting Coldhands. Then when the Night's King showed up ominously, I thought they were doing a dramatic cliffhanger entrance. I was wrong.

The Benjen is Coldhands theory is firing on all cylinders based on the idea that they don't wanna introduce CH yet because of such a reveal.

 

[mgoblue2290]

People need to remember that the events in AFFC and ADWD happen at basically the same time. The next few seasons will be a blend of those two books if these writers have any clue as to what they are doing.

Also, I don't think Coldhands is an Other.

Well he is at least a wight. But yeah it's really lining up as Benjen being Coldhands. Although I thought Coldhands said he'd been dead for a very long time, or that someone said that about him.

 

[Palooza]

A really bad fucking time for NAHSTE to not be around.

 

[Palooza]

from reddit -

Maybe Jon will find something at Craster's that makes him believe Bran was killed there.

vanish without a trace, only a set of elk tracks nearby

:fap: :fap: :fap: :fap2:

 

[seaplus]

Well he is at least a wight. But yeah it's really lining up as Benjen being Coldhands. Although I thought Coldhands said he'd been dead for a very long time, or that someone said that about him.

Thought the Children said he was killed a long time ago when they were in the cave and surrounded


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[Villain]

Well he is at least a wight. But yeah it's really lining up as Benjen being Coldhands. Although I thought Coldhands said he'd been dead for a very long time, or that someone said that about him.

He's a different kind of Wight. His eyes are black instead of blue.

Also, I never liked the idea of Benjen being Coldhands. Honestly, I don't like most Benjen theories - they seem so forced. I think that Benjen's return to the story will be similar to Howland Reed's entrance. We are going to learn a shitton of stuff that we may have suspected but never knew for sure. Obviously, the info we'll get from Howland Reed has been theorized a gajillion times so it may or may not be the biggest shocker ever.

From Benjen, I would like to think that he's in the Far North tracking the Night's King and learning everything he can about the "true enemy."

 

[SethMode]

Regardless of the Coldhands identity (I too remember reading the Children state that he was very old -- hence why there were theories that he was the Night's King or Bryndon -- of which he is clearly neither), do we all agree that Benjen will definitely be back? Or at least, we suspect that he will be? I am not always one that needs the death to occur in front of me (Syrio's alive tinfoilers *cough*) to believe that it occured, but the fact that we've seen absolutely nothing of him leads me to believe that we will see in about in some capacity. At this point, it's been so long, I think that he's alive.

 

[mgoblue2290]

I think Benjen will be our prologue in TWoW. That would be an incredible opening.

Also perhaps Coldhands eye color is a result of not siding with the Others?

 

[SethMode]

I think Benjen will be our prologue in TWoW. That would be an incredible opening.

Also perhaps Coldhands eye color is a result of not siding with the Others?

My friend had mentioned that too. That would be awesome, although such a bummer to get him and then have him die (at least, presumably, since that always happens).

I would suspect that the eye color is definitely significant, and probably for that reason. I mean, it's mentioned enough to not just be a throw away, particularly in comparison to how the Other's look.

 

[Villain]

I think Benjen will be our prologue in TWoW. That would be an incredible opening.

I got a boner just thinking about.

 

[Atlas]

i saw this on r/asoiaf and it made me chuckle (they were talking about where the night king's lair or w/e is and it changed to what if humans were the minority race and the land of always winter was bigger than we thought):

 

[Palooza]

Whether you liked this episode or not, it's definitely gotten the internets chirp-chirpin with much needed new material.

 

[NAHSTE]

Whether you liked this episode or not, it's definitely gotten the internets chirp-chirpin with much needed new material.

"There's no such thing as a bad book change" in other words.

 

[SethMode]

"There's no such thing as bad book changes" in other words.

I thought that most of the book readers were in permanent panty bunched mode over even the smallest book changes?

I haven't minded most of them, although there were some in episode 4 that I really don't see what's going to happen (Jaime/Tyrion particularly). I actually like the Bran shit WAY more than just about anything Bran has done post book 1.