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[Spoilers] ASOIAF Book Readers GoT Show Discussion Thread

I was never a STANNIS IS THE MANNIS kind of guy, but I really, really enjoyed his stuff at the Wall. D&D have already stated iirc they aren't so fond of Stannis either. I'm a firm believer he doesn't make it out alive in tWoW. Regardless, I think they should have gone with his brother in law trying to give Stannis up to the Lannisters, not being burned for worshipping false idols. Something I can overlook because I am not too involved with Stannis outside of Davos and Mel.
 
So, now that we've kicked off the first death, who do we have left this season as far as major/important characters? Ygritte, Oberyn, Sander (depending on who you ask), Lysa, and Tywin. Am I missing anyone?
 
So, now that we've kicked off the first death, who do we have left this season as far as major/important characters? Ygritte, Oberyn, Sander (depending on who you ask), Lysa, and Tywin. Am I missing anyone?

Not a major death, but first I can recall that you missed -- and it depends on on how they go with the battle at Castle Black -- but in the books, I believe it's Donal Noye who gets the bad ass hero death where he takes out a giant and blocks the gate. In the show, since we haven't gotten to know Donal at all, they might go with Grenn to give it more emotional weight for the viewers? I'd say Edd too since he's had some memorable lines already, but we need him to fetch a block later.

:kanye:
 
Forgot Balon too :duh:

Next season is going to be super interesting. I personally really enjoyed book 4, and think that it does a great job of building to some really interesting plots/subplots. But after the insanity of these past two seasons, I feel like people are going to have a tough time basically rebooting half of the cast. Obviously too, the play will be to mix Book 4 and 5, given the whole timeline thing.
 
The 4th book is great at expanding the world we already know. Things start to move deeper into big picture territory.

This season is very juicy, it seems near impossible to muck it up. Next season is going to be a serious test.
 
I think NEXT season sets up perfectly for a nice little break...tons of shit happens this season...need to sit back and enjoy some character and plot building, especially if this season is setting up for home run after home run. Sooner or later, we gotta just get some guys on base.
 
Question for you nerds:

Been chatting about some of this stuff with a friend while I listen to book 3 via Audible, and a question came to mind for me: did Roose order Ramsay to sack and burn Winterfell? I couldn't remember any discussion of repercussions, and obviously it worked out for Roose in the end, but considering his character seems to function almost 100% out of fear and looking for the best option, it seems odd that he would order such a HUGE backstab when it happened, considering Robb hadn't even betrayed Walder yet. Is there evidence that Roose had been looking to betray Stark from the beginning, just because he was prudent enough to know that at 16 he would fuck up? I mean, that is fairly obvious, but like I said, it seems safer to just bide one's time (which he kind of did anyway) than to basically go on the offensive.

I know that the Bolton's historically dislike the Starks, but let's be honest: Roose isn't into petty shit like that.
 
Question for you nerds:

Been chatting about some of this stuff with a friend while I listen to book 3 via Audible, and a question came to mind for me: did Roose order Ramsay to sack and burn Winterfell? I couldn't remember any discussion of repercussions, and obviously it worked out for Roose in the end, but considering his character seems to function almost 100% out of fear and looking for the best option, it seems odd that he would order such a HUGE backstab when it happened, considering Robb hadn't even betrayed Walder yet. Is there evidence that Roose had been looking to betray Stark from the beginning, just because he was prudent enough to know that at 16 he would fuck up? I mean, that is fairly obvious, but like I said, it seems safer to just bide one's time (which he kind of did anyway) than to basically go on the offensive.

I know that the Bolton's historically dislike the Starks, but let's be honest: Roose isn't into petty shit like that.

I can't remember if it was ever made clear that it was Ramsay's or Roose's decision, although destroying the symbolic hold of the North certainly helps solidify Bolton's position. I think he was only looking to betray the Starks as soon as he was offered a hold over the North by the Lannisters.
 
I can't remember if it was ever made clear that it was Ramsay's or Roose's decision, although destroying the symbolic hold of the North certainly helps solidify Bolton's position. I think he was only looking to betray the Starks as soon as he was offered a hold over the North by the Lannisters.

I wish there was some way to know what letters were headed to whom at what time. Because I doubt the Frey's were offered anything prior to Robb's fuck up. As for Bolton, it's easy to imagine that given his nature, Tywin thought it would be worth it to at least give it a shot. Worst case scenario, the raven could be intercepted or the message found, and it would sow mistrust. The thing I just don't get about Roose is, at the time that Winterfell was sacked, Robb was basically winning the war, so I don't see him making that order. Further, if it was Ramsay's decision, I feel that while it worked out, Roose would be too practical to not basically kill Ramsay as punishment. If Robb doesn't stick his dick in Jeyne and marry her, Roose could have been killed or at least severely punished thanks to Ramsay's sacking. I guess I just see him taking that into consideration after the fact, and not wanting to wait for Ramsay's next disturbing action that could potentially dick him over.
 
I don't know, but my gut tells me Roose did not know, but in hindsight was grateful his bastard destroyed the heart of the north right before he stuck a knife through the heart of the king in the north. Although I do enjoy the Roose theories about him being hundreds of years old, I like to think that things kind of just fell perfectly in to place for him. Also, when looking for what the name of that theory was (Still didn't find it) I came across this - http://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/early-evidence-of-roose-boltons-treason/
 
I think he did know and that link palooza posted provides further evidence. He saw Neds impending demise as the perfect time to improve his own position. Sending his bastard to Winterfell provides perfect cover had everything backfired. He could've easily pinned it all on Ramsay and walked away relatively free.
 
I think he did know and that link palooza posted provides further evidence. He saw Neds impending demise as the perfect time to improve his own position. Sending his bastard to Winterfell provides perfect cover had everything backfired. He could've easily pinned it all on Ramsay and walked away relatively free.

I thought about that, but doesn't he cop to Robb about Ramsey leading the "rescue" at Winterfell before Robb fucks everything up? Maybe I'm misremembering the timeline, and Roose only copped to it after the fact, but copping to it at all would lead me to believe that Robb understood that while Roose was away from the Dreadfort, Ramsay had control over the forces there, and I'm thus further lead to believe it wouldn't be as simple as Roose saying to Robb "Yo, my bad, it was that crazy bastard of mine all on his own, with my troops."

Honestly, my personal opinion is that Ramsay went rogue, and because it worked out, Roose showed that he isn't the infallible decision maker that he seems to be, and kept the uncontrollable little twat around. My gut says Ramsay will have something to do with Roose's downfall, and that keeping him alive after that gambit was his big mistake.

Admittedly, that is 100% right from my ass.
 
Reading some stuff this morning that indicates pretty intensely that this show will only be 7 seasons. Now, whether that's with some extended seasons or something, who can tell but, considering we're currently finishing book 3 in season 4 (with a dash of book 4 and 5), this seems like it's going to be tight. I would guess 4 and 5 get condensed into 1 season, which seems fair to me, but if they stay at 10 episodes, that leaves 1 season each for the final two books.

If 7 seasons is a definite, I'm going to guess that they cut the Ironborn stuff almost entirely, outside of what has already been introduced (no Victarion :(), and I'm going to guess that they'll drop Quentyn Martell too, maybe?
 
No need for Quentyn honestly. Dany did fuck up there though. Should've just agreed to marry him but he wasn't badass enough or whatever. She's done a shit job of ruling Mereen anyway. I'm sort of hoping she goes down a more villainous road.
 
They really should do a prequel season about Robert's Rebellion once they catch up to the books. But probably very unlikely to happen.
 
They really should do a prequel season about Robert's Rebellion once they catch up to the books. But probably very unlikely to happen.

If they did that, they would give away too much. One of the biggest things about these books is the way we are learning the secrets about what really happened during the Rebellion as events progress.

It's kind of like the movie Memento. If you watch the version where everything happens in order it loses its impact.
 
CleganeBowl Alt Theory said:
OK, so I only just noticed the term "Cleganebowl" referring to the theory that Sandor will return as The Hound to fight his brother in Cersei's trial by combat. I don't think this is going to happen.. however! I do believe that they will fight. Here's a theory I threw about on the official forums a while ago about how I think it will happen -
I think Cersei's trial by combat will feature a weaker opponent - probably Lancel - as the Faith's champion. I believe she will bring out Robert Strong who will basically turn the opponent into a puddle on the floor - much to the shock of the Faith. I think Cersei will then retain her power and the turmoil in King's Landing will persist.
Sansa is currently set to wed - as it stands she is masquerading as Littlefinger's daughter, and as the most powerful lord here it seems like the wedding will have to take place at his own seat - Harrenhall. I think the wedding will proceed to there, but not before Cersei finds out about Sansa's location. Cue Cersei sending a force led by Robert Strong to kill her on the way to her wedding.
Basically I think there's going to be a massive fight near Harrenhall, (which incidentally is somewhere in the region of the Quiet Isle). Littlefinger's forces will be apparently overrun (Sansa's husband-to-be I think will be one of the first casualties, unlucky mate). Thankfully, the Lannister's plans were also found out (probably by a certain 7-stringed chap who's been spying on their troop movements) and the Brotherhood Without Banners charge in as the cavalry - led by Brienne of Tarth and Jaime Lannister, who finally have the opportunity to prove their oath to Catelyn.
Brienne will be wearing the Hound's helmet, given to her by Lem to cover up her disfigured face, and both her and Jaime will face off against Robert Strong. Remember Bran's dream? This is where it comes true -
"There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood" (Bran III)."
I think what will happen here is that Brienne will be mortally wounded by Robert Strong, and she will lose her new helm in the fight too. But before Jaime can be crushed too along with Sansa, a strange figure walks up and picks up the helm - THAT'S RIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS IT'S CLEGANEBOWL.
There may be extra points here if Thoros is killed and loses his flaming sword - I think there's a good chance of this because it not only prevents any battlefield resurrections but it gives Sandor a weapon that can kill the undead (although oathkeeper is another solid bet). I think the flaming sword would be better though because of the irony of Sandor using fire to kill what was once his brother. Anyway - I think THIS is what Rhllor had planned for Sandor so long ago.
I think there's also multiple levels of irony here that add to the drama of the scene -
firstly Sandor killing his brother with fire (as his brother hurt him).
Secondly the fact that Sandor is no long killing him in wrath; he can only win because he is finally at peace and does so defending Sansa, not for his own revenge.
Sansa finally gets her "knight in shining armor" - The very man who told her such things did not exist.
I think despite vanquishing Robert Strong, Sandor will also be mortally wounded, and will probably do the dramatic thing and die in Sansa's arms, possibly with a heart-rending "little bird" final quote - oh, and the news that Arya is alive.
Here's where the rest of it comes together. Firstly I think Brienne will currently be dying in Jaime's arms, who finally confesses his love for her, and Brienne dies knowing her oath was kept. Jaime then goes completely batshit, marches into King's Landing, confronts Cersei, and strangles her to death with his golden hand (totally paralleling Tyrion's story with the "hands of gold" that keeps getting mentioned, and also fulfilling the "valonquar" prophecy. oh also I believe that makes them both kinslayers too, they're both finally equal at this point and I believe this dichotomy is an important part of G R R Martin's writing for those two). I also believe Brienne's death is the only thing that could truly push Jaime so far as to kill Cersei.
BONUS - I think Sansa will catch Gendry's eye. Yep, I think Sansa has had her fill of noblemen and after finding out what Gendry has done for her sister will fall for the Baratheon bastard. Note Jaime makes a comment a while back about how she'll "marry some blacksmith". I don't think that quote was coincidental. I shouldn't worry too much about the lineage, it still unites the Baratheon and Stark lines, and I suspect whoever wins will be handing out the titles at the end anyway.
DOUBLE BONUS - I think there's a good chance Littlefinger will flee the battle to Harrenhall - where Catelyn is waiting for him, quite literally the ghost in Harrenhall. I think Baelish will meet her and to his horror will die screaming at her hands. Bit of an outside bet this one but I think it'd be really cool if it happened.
So, yeah. Thoughts?
EDIT - I noticed the best argument against this entire thing is that Littlefinger would not be so foolish as to leave the Vale for Harrenhall. My first argument would be that it would be appropriate for the newly ascended Lord Baelish to marry his "daughter" to Harry at his seat of power - which is of course Harrenhall. I think Littlefinger may be confident (and arrogant) enough in his plan to assume that Sansa's identity was still very much a secret, and that he was relatively safe in leaving the Eyrie for the ceremony. It would also assert his own power as a newly-founded lord to host the wedding in his own supposed seat of power.
However! There's another very, very good reason that Petyr Baelish (and Harry the Heir) should be away from the Vale for the wedding. Because if little Robert has an "accident" while they're away it would be very hard to implicate them in his death. If Robert dies, Harry walks in as the rightful Lord of the Vale, and Littlefinger can proceed with his plan to rally the North around Sansa. Also, Marillion is alive for some unspecified reason - I suspect he may be used as a scapegoat for little Robert's death also after his "escape" from the sky cells.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/236dsl/cleganebowl_my_alternate_theory_plus_a_few_other/
 
A buddy did actually send that to me, just in a more condensed manner. It was a fun read, but if things actually ended up like that, I would hate it. It's such eye roll inducing typical fantasy nonsense most of the time, and the times that aren't are so neatly packaged and convenient it just seems very unlikely.

Some aren't bad. I like the idea of the Lancel just getting crushed by the FrankenGregor. However, if Brienne actually dies in Jaime's arms after he tells her he loves her, I will chuck the book across the room and light it on fire.
 
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