The Soccer Thread

[kmanharris]

The World Cup is supposed to be an inclusive place. FIFA doesn't run initiatives like 'Kick Racism Out' just so they can go to a country in which women are oppressed and gays are vilified. The Middle East is not a place where people from all corners of the world will be able to feel comfortable going. What happens if Israel should somehow come out of their WC qualifying group? While the two countries are peaceful, Qatar has been quite vocal in their support for Hamas.

Caribbean, I think you are being facetious by comparing Qatar to the treatment of Aboriginees in Australia or Native Americans in the US. While that was/is a terrible thing, most governments and citizens of those countries recognize that wrong doing and have taken steps to apologize. Whether those steps are far enough (Native Americans in America still feel marginalized) it is not an outright ban on a type of expression.

Sure, Qatar will 'change' their rules for that one month period. But that will be like China hiding all their poor people when they hosted the Olympics. Problems aren't being solved, they are being hidden from the Western world. Like GoBlue, different cultures are to be cherished and enjoyed. As someone who has been to 30+ countries so far in my life, there is really no way I would want to travel to Qatar with my fiance. It can only pale in comparison to the time I had in Germany for WC06 and Austria for Euro08. Why? Because I didn't have to check my beer at a designated drinking zone. I didn't have to make sure my fiance is fully covered in 50+ celsius temperatures.

I can't wait for the fan reports to come back from this WC. I am planning on going to WC2014, and I'd like to go to WC2018. I just don't really see anyway that I find going to Qatar to be a worthwhile experience.

How the fuck can you afford to go to all those WCs? PM me if you have any tips on getting better deals lol

 

[calgaryballer]

How the fuck can you afford to go to all those WCs? PM me if you have any tips on getting better deals lol

I typically save a boat load in between. I also usually plan trips around those times regardless. For WC2006, I had been in Europe backpacking for a month before it even started. Euro08 I had been in Europe for 2 months before it started.

The next two, now that I have a job, will be my primary focus for a summer vacation. I would love to backpack South America with a stop in the middle for some WC action, but it might not be reasonable.

Getting to the countries is relatively cheap, and you can find decent accommodation if you look far enough ahead. Match tickets are your biggest expense, but if you are OK going to one of the lesser matches or out of the way venues, then it's a bit cheaper

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

The World Cup is supposed to be an inclusive place. FIFA doesn't run initiatives like 'Kick Racism Out' just so they can go to a country in which women are oppressed and gays are vilified. The Middle East is not a place where people from all corners of the world will be able to feel comfortable going. What happens if Israel should somehow come out of their WC qualifying group? While the two countries are peaceful, Qatar has been quite vocal in their support for Hamas.

Caribbean, I think you are being facetious by comparing Qatar to the treatment of Aboriginees in Australia or Native Americans in the US. While that was/is a terrible thing, most governments and citizens of those countries recognize that wrong doing and have taken steps to apologize. Whether those steps are far enough (Native Americans in America still feel marginalized) it is not an outright ban on a type of expression.

Sure, Qatar will 'change' their rules for that one month period. But that will be like China hiding all their poor people when they hosted the Olympics. Problems aren't being solved, they are being hidden from the Western world. Like GoBlue, different cultures are to be cherished and enjoyed. As someone who has been to 30+ countries so far in my life, there is really no way I would want to travel to Qatar with my fiance. It can only pale in comparison to the time I had in Germany for WC06 and Austria for Euro08. Why? Because I didn't have to check my beer at a designated drinking zone. I didn't have to make sure my fiance is fully covered in 50+ celsius temperatures.

I can't wait for the fan reports to come back from this WC. I am planning on going to WC2014, and I'd like to go to WC2018. I just don't really see anyway that I find going to Qatar to be a worthwhile experience.

Not sure where you got Native Americans from? Aborigines are still treated like shit today it's not a thing of the past. I don't support those laws and they're completely against my own personal beliefs, I strongly support gay rights (I'm fron San Fran) and equality.

My problem is people have never been to these places to experience it first hand, don't know a whole lot about them besides what the western media reports, don't understand the culture/way of life and particularly when it comes to the Middle East, are horribly biased (which is somewhat understandable).

I don't agree with what goes on but I respect that they do things differently and its their country and that that's the way things are done. This whole our way is the only/better way is what pisses me off and the 'world police' attitude is why most of the world hates us. Fucked up shit goes on in every country (US, UK, in Europe, etc.), our hands are far from clean and we really aren't in a position to criticise.

 

[mgoblue2290]

Not sure where you got Native Americans from? Aborigines are still treated like shit today it's not a thing of the past. I don't support those laws and they're completely against my own personal beliefs, I strongly support gay rights (I'm fron San Fran) and equality.

My problem is people have never been to these places to experience it first hand, don't know a whole lot about them besides what the western media reports, don't understand the culture/way of life and particularly when it comes to the Middle East, are horribly biased (which is somewhat understandable).

I don't agree with what goes on but I respect that they do things differently and its their country and that that's the way things are done. This whole our way is the only/better way is what pisses me off and the 'world police' attitude is why most of the world hates us. Fucked up shit goes on in every country (US, UK, in Europe, etc.), our hands are far from clean and we really aren't in a position to criticise.

Doing things differently is fine. But when those things you do differently oppress a certain group of people, or kill/maim innocents for what are really minor or even non transgressions, is wrong. Citizens of the countries where these things happen who do nothing should be ashamed.

Please. If America said you know what, fuck the rest of the world and just went home people would not be pleased. It is a very damned if you, damned if you don't situation. The shit that goes on our country is not even close to as bad as what happens in other countries.

 

[calgaryballer]

Not sure where you got Native Americans from? Aborigines are still treated like shit today it's not a thing of the past. I don't support those laws and they're completely against my own personal beliefs, I strongly support gay rights (I'm fron San Fran) and equality.

My problem is people have never been to these places to experience it first hand, don't know a whole lot about them besides what the western media reports, don't understand the culture/way of life and particularly when it comes to the Middle East, are horribly biased (which is somewhat understandable).

I don't agree with what goes on but I respect that they do things differently and its their country and that that's the way things are done. This whole our way is the only/better way is what pisses me off and the 'world police' attitude is why most of the world hates us. Fucked up shit goes on in every country (US, UK, in Europe, etc.), our hands are far from clean and we really aren't in a position to criticise.

Israeli citizens are banned from entering that country. That's not 'world police', that is institutionalized discrimination. Find me a similar policy in the western world and I will concede the point

 

[mgoblue2290]

Israeli citizens are banned from entering that country. That's not 'world police', that is institutionalized discrimination. Find me a similar policy in the western world and I will concede the point

The ban of burqas in France? That really doesn't even come close though.

 

[calgaryballer]

The ban of burqas in France?

The only reason that ban is an issue is because Muslim people are allowed in France. It'd be like banning Muslim's because they don't want burqas

EDIT - to clarify, I do think bans like this are silly. While they can be oppressive, I do think many Muslim women wear them as a choice. Banning that choice is not something I agree with.

 

[mgoblue2290]

The only reason that ban is an issue is because Muslim people are allowed in France. It'd be like banning Muslim's because they don't want burqas

Yeah but you could still argue it as a form of institutionalized discrimination, even though the French government says they're doing it to free the women, even though many Muslim women choose to wear it.

I agree though, it still isn't even close to Qatar's laws regarding Israelis.

 

[calgaryballer]

Yeah but you could still argue it as a form of institutionalized discrimination, even though the French government says they're doing it to free the women, even though many Muslim women choose to wear it.

I agree though, it still isn't even close to Qatar's laws regarding Israelis.

Pretty much the same point I wanted to make in my edit.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

Qatar have already said if they qualify there will be no issue with them competing.


They can't enter because Qatar doesn't recognise Israel as a state, this is nothing unique to Qatar, it's a show of Arab unity and the majority of Arab countries don't. It's a deep rooted issue in the area that is 100s of years old and to be brutally honest Israel only have themselves to blame.

 

[calgaryballer]

Qatar have already said if they qualify there will be no issue with them competing.


They can't enter because Qatar doesn't recognise Israel as a state, this is nothing unique to Qatar, it's a show of Arab unity and the majority of Arab countries don't. It's a deep rooted issue in the area that is 100s of years old and to be brutally honest Israel only have themselves to blame.

If Israel were to host the games, do you think a ban on Arab's would go over well? Apparently it's their country so they can do what they like...

I don't want to go to a World Cup were I have to get permission to be myself.

 

[kmanharris]

Qatar have already said if they qualify there will be no issue with them competing.


They can't enter because Qatar doesn't recognise Israel as a state, this is nothing unique to Qatar, it's a show of Arab unity and the majority of Arab countries don't. It's a deep rooted issue in the area that is 100s of years old and to be brutally honest Israel only have themselves to blame.

Of course they will say that. In order to get the bid they couldn't go around saying "well if Israel qualifies they won't be allowed in." Qatar said the things that they had to say and paid the people that they had to pay.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

If Israel were to host the games, do you think a ban on Arab's would go over well? Apparently it's their country so they can do what they like...

Qatar have already said if they qualify there will be no issue with them competing.

I don't want to go to a World Cup were I have to get permission to be myself.

That's your prerogative, just because you don't doesn't mean that others won't want to and enjoy the experience, I for one will.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

Of course they will say that. In order to get the bid they couldn't go around saying "well if Israel qualifies they won't be allowed in." Qatar said the things that they had to say and paid the people that they had to pay.

This WC is a advertisement for Qatar, they aren't stupid, refusing to allow Israel to compete would be a horrible pr move, if Israel qualifies it won't be an issue. This is all a moot point though tbh because the chances of Israel qualifying are slim to none lol.

 

[relaxedanderson]

This WC is a advertisement for Qatar, they aren't stupid, refusing to allow Israel to compete would be a horrible pr move, if Israel qualifies it won't be an issue. This is all a moot point though tbh because the chances of Israel qualifying are slim to none lol.

What about the supporters though? Will they let 10,000 Israeli fans spend a month wandering around Doha draped in Israeli flags? If they do, will they be able to guarantee their safety and security? I know they are unlikely to qualify but then again fate likes to kick things like this up every now and then just for the hell of it.

There are a lot of questions around this tournament.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

What about the supporters though? Will they let 10,000 Israeli fans spend a month wandering around Doha draped in Israeli flags? If they do, will they be able to guarantee their safety and security? I know they are unlikely to qualify but then again fate likes to kick things like this up every now and then just for the hell of it.

There are a lot of questions around this tournament.

I've been wondering this myself because it hasn't been addressed yet afaik, Qatar have said 'everyone is welcome' I'm assuming this covers the fans as well and some kind of arrangement will be made if they qualify, now if Israeli fans would want to travel is another question.


There are many questions but it's a bit early, things should become clearer as we get a bit closer as work starts and things are firmed up. It's a bold move by FIFA and there are definitely risks, the way I see it, this tournament is either gonna be a massive flop or one of the best ever. The one certainty is that Qatar will pull out all the stops and if they can manage what they outlined in their bid then this tournament will be a success..

 

[relaxedanderson]

Still, at least it means Wales are in with a chance of hosting one in the future, we're twice the size and have twice the population of Qatar!

Our bid could be "We're bigger than the last lot, we sell beer and your eyeballs won't melt when you go outside. Bring an umbrella".

I'm just off to start the Wales 2026 campaign.

Well, I was only joking but while I was writing this in jest someone actually did start the campaign.

http://www.facebook.com/backthebid

I'm looking forward to Max Boyce, Ruth Madoc and Mickey Thomas doing our presentation to FIFA.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

Well, I was only joking but while I was writing this in jest someone actually did start the campaign.

http://www.facebook.com/backthebid

I'm looking forward to Max Boyce, Ruth Madoc and Mickey Thomas doing our presentation to FIFA.

Oh if only that could ever happen, the endless misery that would give the English would be priceless

Someone should probably tell them to change it to 2030 lol.

 

[relaxedanderson]

Oh if only that could ever happen, the endless misery that would give the English would be priceless

Someone should probably tell them to change it to 2030 lol.

That's how we'd win it. We wouldn't have to worry about presentations, facilities, funding, schmoozing or bribing. We'd just say "Give it to us Sepp, it would REALLY wind up the English".

Nailed-on, guaranteed.

 

[citizenerased]

Carribean would've been perfect in Nazi Germany.

"I don't agree with what goes on but I respect that they do things differently and its their country and that that's the way things are done, so if they want to round the Jews, Gypsies and Gays, that's fine by me"

"This whole our way is the only/better way is what pisses me off and the 'world police' attitude is why most of the world hates us, so all this outcry over Saddam using mustard gas on all those little Kurdish villages is just another example of American Exceptionalism at it's worst"

Aborigines are still treated like shit today it's not a thing of the past

Get a clue please, seriously. The only people who treat Aborigines like shit today are their own community leaders. They are the ones who spend all day chasing out the aid workers and doctors, they are the ones who riot whenever the police get called in to arrest all the adults who spend all day huffing glue, getting drunk and touching all the little kids. You think they government had to ban alcohol in their shanty towns (which they by and large refuse to leave and intergrate into mainstream society) because John Howard just felt like sticking it to the darkies?