This lame trend...(long rant)

[steeljake]

What about judging people by what they do for a living?

you will need to speak to the steeljake hater's club for more info on that.

 

[Wildcard]

What imaginary NFL season did this take place in? It's good to see you have the football knowledge of a retarded chicken who eats steroids all day until eventually becoming kentucy fried chicken.

The year Pittsburgh won the Super Bowl you moron.

Nick Harper picked up a Jerome Bettis fumble and almost ran it back, but Big Ben shoe string tackled him.

Peyton then drove his team down the field and Vanderjagt missed the field goal.

Think before you speak.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Yeah. Think before you speak, Goblin.

It's a team effort. You can't solely blame one person for losing a game unless...

They pull a Rex Grossman, and throw INT after INT after INT.

Drew Brees: 7 interceptions in three highly important games, with a playoff spot on the line, 2008.

Carson Palmer: 0-5 in two seasons, 0 TDs, 2 Interceptions, 61 QB rating, against one of the worst defenses in 2008, yesterday.

Jay Cutler: 1 TD, 4 interceptions vs. Green Bay, who Chicago kept in check throughout the game.

 

[NAHSTE]

The year Pittsburgh won the Super Bowl you moron.

Nick Harper picked up a Jerome Bettis fumble and almost ran it back, but Big Ben shoe string tackled him.

Peyton then drove his team down the field and Vanderjagt missed the field goal.

Think before you speak.

nevermind

 

[mgoblue2290]

Dan Marino is the best QB of all time.

Oh what was that? Joe Montana couldn't hear you over the sound of his rings being buffed.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Oh what was that? Joe Montana couldn't hear you over the sound of his rings being buffed.

Rings don't mean shit compared to falling a few yards short of breaking Dan Marino's passing record.

 

[Goober]

The year Pittsburgh won the Super Bowl you moron.

Nick Harper picked up a Jerome Bettis fumble and almost ran it back, but Big Ben shoe string tackled him.

Peyton then drove his team down the field and Vanderjagt missed the field goal.

Think before you speak.

Oh really? Did you miss the bold text?

I know these things are hard, so I'll give you a hint, the Denver Broncos lost the 2005 AFC Championship game.

 

[Wildcard]

Oh really? Did you miss the bold text?

I know these things are hard, so I'll give you a hint, the Denver Broncos lost the 2005 AFC Championship game.

Yeah my bad.

I was thinking the Colts played the Steelers in the AFC Championship. I guess that was the Divisional Round.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

John Elway was one of the greatest QBs to ever play even with going 0-3 in the super bowl, when he had a run game and a better team he won 2 in a row, he didnt become a better QB in those 2 super bowls, he just had a better team

He also faced 2 vastly inferior teams to those he faced when he was 0-3.

He was also the only elite player on those 0-3 teams. Made his living/reputation on last minute comebacks. So there was never a doubt he can be relied on to win an important game.

Whether people like it or not all offenses and teams arent created the same. A QBs role and impact will be VASTLY different from team to team. That said in most cases a QB is the single biggest influence on whether a team wins or loses.

Elway is a great example. Those 0-3 years he was asked to win every game and make every big play. He did so to the tune of 3 SB trips.
With Shanahan the field is shortened , safer passes thrown , and the run game is there to set you up. Youre asked to win the game not by having to pass all day , but by completing the crucial 5-6 passes at crucial times.

Some guys (Brees) cant seem to complete the crucial passes no matter if they are the focal point , or the secondary point.
Some like Marino can do it all day every day weeks 1-16. But faced with similar situations against the SAME teams earlier in the season they cant seem to do it.
Brady won 3 superbowls in the secondary role. But despite an all time season ,undefeated the entire way , couldnt come through when asked to be that focal point and catalyst in a SB.

SBs are not the end all be all on judging players or QBs. But they are for sure a huge difference maker when comparing players of similar status.

 

[Nukleopatra]

I wouldn't put too much stock into what Nukleopatra thinks. He used to say Peyton Manning would never win a Super Bowl.

He is not a solid contributor.



Just sayin'.

Says the guy who remembers something I said years ago.

:applause:

EDIT: If I even said it. If I did, consider me impressed..

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

We've been over this shit a million times.. some people just refuse to acknowledge that football is a team sport and quarterbacks are not always responsible for their teams let-downs or success.

 

[SethMode]

Ya - Nate Vasher's shitty coverage and the Bears ridicuously inexperienced WRs and porous oline had nothing to do with it. Nothing.

He threw 4 picks. You give the other team enough chances, eventually they're going to get one. They blew it late, but 4 picks is a big reason why.

I'd put it 75% on Cutler, 25% on his oline.

 

[SethMode]

Did I write some where that they weren't?

No, it just seems like some of the arguments in this thread are a bit contrary. Or redundant. Or both. Most intelligent football fans know that in almost every loss or victory it's impossible to give all of the credit or blame to someone, so I just don't see the point in pointing out every single person that might have contributed. It's too convoluted, and could be used to explain away anything. It's easier to say that if Jay Cutler hadn't thrown 4 interceptions, the Bears would have had a MUCH greater chance to win the game.

You start nitpicking over every little thing and we're talking about the weather, or the change in wind speed, or whether the water boy got water to the guy. It's silly. Rarely does someone deserve all praise or blame, but it's also not crazy to say "Jay Cutler was the reason they lost" or "Joe Montana was the reason they won". I just think there's too much nitpicking going on with phrasing (although admittedly, some guys are so cut and dry with the idea that it's bordering on absurd).

 

[Nukleopatra]

We've been over this shit a million times.. some people just refuse to acknowledge that football is a team sport and quarterbacks are not always responsible for their teams let-downs or success.

And some people will never acknowledge the fact that a true leader/great football player makes the team around him better, not only stat wise, but winning wise.

Lahey asked, do any of us actually believe that Kyle Orton would have won that game against Green Bay - My answer is - Yes. He sure as hell wouldn't have thrown 4 interceptions. That defense played well enough to win that football game, if they had a guy capable of leading. Jay Cutler isn't a leader, he's a fucking blowhard, immature little kid. Am I saying Orton is more talented? No. Orton isn't even more talented than Ryan Leaf, but talent isn't as important, as leadership, and playing FOR the team. Jay Cutler plays for himself.

Carson Palmer is the complete opposite of Jay Cutler.. He gets rattled, loses confidence early, and turns into a huge fucking mess. It's almost laughable, if you actually watch him play. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a guy that can help, because the head coach is probably the biggest fucking loser on the entire team. Then again, guys like Manning, Warner, Brady have had their bad times, and instead of being a fucking mouse, they stepped up their game and became great leaders.

There's a lot more to a quarterback than being able to throw the ball through a brick wall. And no team is going to be able to succeed with two guys who cannot lead. ''What about Brees, nuk?'' Drew Brees gets a pass from me, because he actually fucking tries..

As for me being a hater, Lahey.. It's funny you should mention that... Because I'm actually a Jay Cutler fan. I have been since his college days. But that doesn't make him anything other than what he is.. a below .500, hot head, that plays for himself.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Right - and Orton would've completed a 87 yard prayer against the Packers to win it.

If Cincinnati had a quarterback capable of throwing a single TD pass during that game, putting up a QB rating higher than 61, that whole miracle play would have been irrelevant. There's far too much credit going to Stokley, and Cincinnati's lack of Def on that play. Cincinnati's def played very well during that game, more than enough to win, if they had a competent quarterback.

More attention should be given to Carson Palmer who threw a whopping 0 TDs, 2 Interceptions, a quarterback rating in the 60s, against what was, what? The worst defense in the NFL last year? I stand corrected, they were 29th.

It's the teams fault, though, right?

 

[ralaw]

Carson Palmer is the complete opposite of Jay Cutler.. He gets rattled, loses confidence early, and turns into a huge fucking mess. It's almost laughable, if you actually watch him play. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a guy that can help, because the head coach is probably the biggest fucking loser on the entire team. Then again, guys like Manning, Warner, Brady have had their bad times, and instead of being a fucking mouse, they stepped up their game and became great leaders..

When Palmer was drafted there was this dude that studied brain types and he concluded that Palmer would never be worthy of a #1 overall pick...he even went as far as to say he was a bust. He came about his decision based on Palmer’s personality type, which was passive, a loner, etc. Now that Palmer seems to have lost it I find your comments interesting, because this is what the dude was saying a few years back.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Palmer wasn't good enough - that's for sure. Heck, he hasn't been good enough since 2005. Regardless, a team can not give up an 87 yard TD in that situation - no matter how poorly it's QB played.

I think we can all agree on that.

Made for a great week 1, though.

 

[ram29jackson]

This is alot of banter for nothing. there are plenty of players in the -Hall- including Quarterbacks who didnt play with constant winners. The Hall is about individual talent and sometimes you dont need a long career or huge stats to be recognized in that vein.

 

[Nukleopatra]

This is alot of banter for nothing. there are plenty of players in the -Hall- including Quarterbacks who didnt play with constant winners. The Hall is about individual talent and sometimes you dont need a long career or huge stats to be recognized in that vein.

lol........................................

 

[KoRnStARr]

Some QBs make plays when the game is in the balance, while others don't but put up nice stats up till that point.

It's real simple.

Playoffs are the biggest determining factor in the debate of a HOF player or not. With good reason.