Tim Sylvia KO'd in 10 seconds!

[Bigpapa42]

What would you say is the weakest chin level after glass?

Id put Tim there.

And you are basing this on what? I quite honestly think you're just making things up at this point to justify your opinion.

Ray Mercer might be old, but he is still a professional boxer who was a heavyweight champion at one point. Getting KO'd by that is hardly proof of a weak chin.

He got dropped by Fedor, the best heavyweight in the world who has some monster shots. He got dropped by Couture, who has pretty good power. He got dropped in two fights against Arlovski, one of the best pure strikers at heavyweight, and big old messy Tim managed to recover from one of those to win the fight. So please, where are all the other big KOs that Sylvia has suffered to prove what a poor chin he has? All the other times he was dropped in a fight?

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Im putting zero effort into this, maybe thats why you feel this way.

Why am I doing that? Bcus I think its ridiculous that ppl are defending a terrible fighter in Tim. Pushing someone against the cage for 5 rounds and landing minimal strikes doenst do it for me, im sorry. Ive never thought Tim was a good fighter and I never will believe that. Lasting 10 seconds with someone Kimbo Slice CHOKED OUT should confirm this all for you.

If it makes you feel any better, remove Kongo from the list. Remove Cain from the list. Whos left?

Fedor
Barnett
Brock
Mir
Nog
Carwin
Overeem
Randy
Rogers

And then everyone else is still arguabe, even you said that. Id pick each and every other fighter I listed against Tim at this point aswell. So Tim is below 15 for me. This was the original argument anyways.. Tim hasnt been a top 10 fighter in some time.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Im putting zero effort into this, maybe thats why you feel this way.

Why am I doing that? Bcus I think its ridiculous that ppl are defending a terrible fighter in Tim. Pushing someone against the cage for 5 rounds and landing minimal strikes doenst do it for me, im sorry. Ive never thought Tim was a good fighter and I never will believe that. Lasting 10 seconds with someone Kimbo Slice CHOKED OUT should confirm this all for you.

If it makes you feel any better, remove Kongo from the list. Remove Cain from the list. Whos left?

Fedor
Barnett
Brock
Mir
Nog
Carwin
Overeem
Randy
Rogers

And then everyone else is still arguabe, even you said that. Id pick each and every other fighter I listed against Tim at this point aswell. So Tim is below 15 for me. This was the original argument anyways.. Tim hasnt been a top 10 fighter in some time.

So based on the bolded, you must hate Randy Couture too? Because that's what he did to win against Sylvia and Gonzaga. And fans didn't hate him for it. He was using it pretty effectively against Lesnar, too.

Really, though, Sylvia only used that approach heavily against Vera. Against Nog, part of the fight against Monson, and the third Arlovski fight is where he did the ultra-boring "circle, jab, circle" bit. I can't disagree that its boring to watch and all that. But other fighters get lauded for doing whatever it takes to win - such as Couture or Machida. And others get some criticism but are also heavily defending - notably Anderson Silva. But Sylvia gets nothing but criticism for it because no one really likes him.

I do not like the guy, as I've said repeatedly. But I'm going to try to make him seem worse than he is just because of that. The loss to Mercer is a head-shaker, not a legacy killer. Yes, Mercer lost to Kimbo via a choke. Rewatch that. Kimbo charged, threw, clinched, and then took him down. Mercer never really landed a punch. Sylvia got KO'd by a profession boxer with 46 wins, which isn't exactly the most unthinkable loss in the world. Now, if he got arm-barred by that same boxer, that would be truly embarrassing. Look at Sylvia's resume - other than this, every loss came to a top heavyweight.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

His resume leaves a lot to be desired, as I said.

Ricco
AA
Monsoon
Rothwell
Whitehead

Thats it.. beating Ricco was good cause Ricco was on top of his game at the time. Same goes for AA. The Monsoon fight was hardly impressive, but a win none the less. Rothwell and Whitehead are ok wins I guess, but nothing overly impressive.

I credit him for being around a long time and having moderate success, but I dont think hes a very good fighter.

And we both know Randy is WAY, WAY more than just a lay n pray fighter. Not even fair to make the comparison.

Furthermore.. im not really making him worse than he is.. ive posted many fighters to be listed infront of him, and even you said the majority were arguable.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

lets see how big tim can save face against buentello a few weeks from now... granted he doesnt get some sort of medical suspension

 

[RosettaStoned]

you mad?

You butthurt?

 

[Bigpapa42]

His resume leaves a lot to be desired, as I said.

Ricco
AA
Monsoon
Rothwell
Whitehead

Thats it.. beating Ricco was good cause Ricco was on top of his game at the time. Same goes for AA. The Monsoon fight was hardly impressive, but a win none the less. Rothwell and Whitehead are ok wins I guess, but nothing overly impressive.

I credit him for being around a long time and having moderate success, but I dont think hes a very good fighter.

And we both know Randy is WAY, WAY more than just a lay n pray fighter. Not even fair to make the comparison.

Furthermore.. im not really making him worse than he is.. ive posted many fighters to be listed infront of him, and even you said the majority were arguable.

Much like Rich Franklin, Sylvia's heyday was when the division was weak. Like Franklin, he beat the average fighters they put in front of him. And lost to the really good ones. Franklin gets credit for doing that, why can't Sylvia?

You have nine fighters remaining on that list that, which makes Sylvia top ten. Not to mention that I would quite honestly give Sylvia a fighting chance against the likes of Rogers, Carwin, Mir, and probably even Nog. Especially Rogers - like him, but the win over Arlovski didn't convince me he's elite.

I never said that Couture was a lay and pray fighter. You said that you dislike Sylvia for using a particular "safe but effective" approach, which is something that Couture did against Sylvia, and in another fight. So I'm curious if you hated those fights where Couture did as much as you hated the fights where Sylvia did it? I'm guessing that you didn't, which means its more of a personal bias against the fighter than simply his fighting style.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Randy was just beating Tim at his own game. Tim was trying to work Randy against the cage and Randy just completely outwrestled him. Randy is obviously out-matched in size and had to take the best approach bcus of this. Sylvia doesnt have this disadvantage, obviously. Randy was a ton more active in the Sylvia fight than Sylvia ever is. And in the Gonzaga fight Randy stopped him.. and broke his nose earlier in the fight, so its not like he wasnt being active in that fight either. So no, I dont hate Randy's performance.. I usually dont, he fights with a ton of heart.

I do have a bias against him and its because hes overrated and not very good. We hate on guys for not finishing fights and being boring all the time. We were getting at Anderson for it. Rob gets at everyone for it. Tim Sylvia is the king of this. To boot, hes been absolutely dominated by top level comp, proving that he cant hang with the best. Again, as it relates to younger fighters, you cant use their resume as a basis obviously, but raw talent im putting everyone I listed against Tim. Everyone always has a "fighters chance" but it doesnt change to me that I think those guys could beat Tim.

And as it relates to only having 9 fighters, the 10th spot can be filled by any number of the 8 other fighters I listed.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Randy was just beating Tim at his own game. Tim was trying to work Randy against the cage and Randy just completely outwrestled him. Randy is obviously out-matched in size and had to take the best approach bcus of this. Sylvia doesnt have this disadvantage, obviously. Randy was a ton more active in the Sylvia fight than Sylvia ever is. And in the Gonzaga fight Randy stopped him.. and broke his nose earlier in the fight, so its not like he wasnt being active in that fight either. So no, I dont hate Randy's performance.. I usually dont, he fights with a ton of heart.

I do have a bias against him and its because hes overrated and not very good. We hate on guys for not finishing fights and being boring all the time. We were getting at Anderson for it. Rob gets at everyone for it. Tim Sylvia is the king of this. To boot, hes been absolutely dominated by top level comp, proving that he cant hang with the best. Again, as it relates to younger fighters, you cant use their resume as a basis obviously, but raw talent im putting everyone I listed against Tim. Everyone always has a "fighters chance" but it doesnt change to me that I think those guys could beat Tim.

And as it relates to only having 9 fighters, the 10th spot can be filled by any number of the 8 other fighters I listed.

Was the broken nose Gonzaga not from an illegal knee, if my memory serves? And Couture took this approach against Lesnar. Sorry if I find it biased and ironic that you hate Sylvia for using a particular approach (safe and effective) while you give Couture a pass for using the same approach, with the lone difference being that Couture finished a fight with it...

He hasn't been dominated by top level competition. He beat Arlovski twice. Vera was "the future" at HW when Sylvia beat him, much like Carwin and Velasquez are now looked at.

Both Rob and I have no reason to overrate the guy. We both admittedly dislike him. I'm simply not ready to rate young guys over guys who have been proven at the top levels - with both wins and loses - based on "potential" or "raw talent". It takes more than those to make it as a top level fighter.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

How can you compare Randy doing it twice, and with more action, to Tim doing it all the time?

Brandon Vera is terribly inconsistent and too small to fight at HW. You cannot honestly consider that an impressive victory. Shane Carwin would knock Brandon Vera's head off.

I didnt say you overrate him, I said hes overrated.

Raw talent and potential are enough for me to say Carwin and Cain are better than Tim Sylvia. What ive seen from them, Carwin in particular, shows me what I need to see. Im fully convinced that Carwin would knock Tim out in short time.

 

[Bigpapa42]

How can you compare Randy doing it twice, and with more action, to Tim doing it all the time?

Brandon Vera is terribly inconsistent and too small to fight at HW. You cannot honestly consider that an impressive victory. Shane Carwin would knock Brandon Vera's head off.

I didnt say you overrate him, I said hes overrated.

Raw talent and potential are enough for me to say Carwin and Cain are better than Tim Sylvia. What ive seen from them, Carwin in particular, shows me what I need to see. Im fully convinced that Carwin would knock Tim out in short time.

By my count, Sylvia clearly took the "safe approach" (whether it was clinching or circle-jab) in 5 fights (Nog, Vera, Monson, Silva, and Arlovski III). Other fights were either too short or the opponent controlled the action too much (such as against Couture). Couture has clearly used the "safe approach" in three fights (Sylvia, Gonzaga, and Lesnar). Oh my lord, what I am doing making such an uneven comparison... 5 times versus 3 times...

Once we start rating guys on "raw talent" and "potential", we're down to making wildass assumptions. Those two things are very subjective. Based on that approach, I can rate Tim Hague as the greatest HW fighter in the world. He's 10-1, huge, and can finish fights by strikes or submission. So what if his biggest wins are Sherman Pendergast and Ruben Villarreal and that he only has one UFC win... I see the raw talent and potential there, so I figure he can beat anyone. I'm sorry, but results and context have to matter when you are ranking fighters.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Which approach would you like Randy Couture to take against Brock Lesnar? I hardly call the Gonzaga fight taking the safe approach either.. he was willing to trade with Gabe he just was weary of the head kick, thats all.

The difference between Randy and Tim is that Tim shouldnt have to take that approach fighting.. hes just a lazy fighter he lays on ppl. Theres no skill in that. And Randy fought that way against him BECAUSE thats how Tim wanted to fight.. and Randy schooled him at his own "safe approach" as you're calling it. The mere comparison is pretty foolish in itself. Ill give Randy a pass for fighting some smart fights bcus hes earned that. Tim hasnt earned shit.

 

[Bigpapa42]

Which approach would you like Randy Couture to take against Brock Lesnar? I hardly call the Gonzaga fight taking the safe approach either.. he was willing to trade with Gabe he just was weary of the head kick, thats all.

The difference between Randy and Tim is that Tim shouldnt have to take that approach fighting.. hes just a lazy fighter he lays on ppl. Theres no skill in that. And Randy fought that way against him BECAUSE thats how Tim wanted to fight.. and Randy schooled him at his own "safe approach" as you're calling it. The mere comparison is pretty foolish in itself. Ill give Randy a pass for fighting some smart fights bcus hes earned that. Tim hasnt earned shit.

I'm not saying Couture should have taken a different approach in any of those fights. It was smart, even if he did lose to Lesnar. I'm just not willing to give Couture a free pass and shit all over Sylvia because they are doing essentially the same thing - doing what it takes to win a given fight. No more than I give Anderson Silva a free pass for doing it in his last two fights. The context might differ a bit, but it comes down to the same basic thing.

Its pretty obvious to me, at least, that your bias against Sylvia seems to be the basis of most of your arguments regarding him as a fighter. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it might be something you want to realize and accept.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I already said im bias against him.. theres nothing to admit. It doesnt change the fact thats hes an overrated, past your prime, bum. And again, Randy is more active in even his "safe" fights than Tim ever will be.

 

[Liquidrob]

I said before this fight, Tim was still a top 10 HW, most MMA ranking sites had Tim in the top 10, so its not that big of a stretch

Guys seems to mixing up potenial, ability, and rankings, who is 'hot', etc...and than always rewrite history of past wins, they seem to forget why the fight happened, who was the top contender, etc...

I dont like Tim, I still dont like Tim, he is a boring fighter, but he was where he was for a reason

I crack on And1 for his last 2 fights, but he is still my top MW and number 3 P4P, funny how that works

also funny that Randy got sky rocketed up the HW ranks after winning the UFC belt, who did he beat? Tim

People look at Cro Cop now and say he is 'washed up', but he was the reason Gabe went up the ranks, so Randy got all his rankings from beating Tim the 'bum' and Gabe who beat a now 'washed up' Cro Cop

 

[Liquidrob]

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Just lots of hatred on Big Tim because he is dull as watching paint dry.

It is good to see Kaillou remain unbiased when he throws bum ass, never done anything, boring MF'r Fabricio Werdum in there ahead of Big Tim. GTFOOH.