UFC 109:Relentless

[Warner2BruceTD]

Dude you have got to be joking. No one wants to see that fight. They weren't hyping a fight. Tito Ortiz is filming the Ultimate Fighter right now. He's not training and he can't train. His next fight is against Chuck Liddell in June.

Tito was doing business. 100%.

As for the idea that "nobody wants to see that fight", if they chose to do it and let both guys hype it, it would draw, no doubt about it.

 

[Liquidrob]

Tito was hyping a Coleman fight, he needs a win after losing to Griffin and getting KO'd by Chuck again

 

[Steel Mamba]

Dana also said before he was 'out of the tito ortiz business' and chuck was retired

I believe him. There's a big difference between Chuck/Tito and Coleman. Two guys who can sell and "still compete", as oppose to someone who's not a draw and can no longer compete with the top.

As for the idea that "nobody wants to see that fight", if they chose to do it and let both guys hype it, it would draw, no doubt about it.

No way, especially after Tito loses to Chuck, even now the fight wouldn't draw any interest.

 

[Liquidrob]

get ready for Chuck/Tito 3, Coleman/Tito and Chuck/Randy 4

Super Bowl of MMA!

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

get ready for Chuck/Tito 3, Coleman/Tito and Chuck/Randy 4

Super Bowl of MMA!

Free hearing aids and blood pressure checkers for all in attendance.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Coleman had the gutsiest performance of the year vs. Shogun, then beat Bonner. The biggest mistake UFC made was not showing the Bonner fight.

Coleman is a great "aging underdog" story, they can play that up and ignore the Couture fight. Then you play up the evil Tito punking him after the loss, and you have the perfect face/heel dynamic that sells fights.

It's a winner.

 

[Liquidrob]

Coleman had the gutsiest performance of the year vs. Shogun, then beat Bonner. The biggest mistake UFC made was not showing the Bonner fight.

Coleman is a great "aging underdog" story, they can play that up and ignore the Couture fight. Then you play up the evil Tito punking him after the loss, and you have the perfect face/heel dynamic that sells fights.

It's a winner.

Throw in Coleman calling Jenna a whore and you got your next 2 coaches on TUF!

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not talking about a million buys, i'm talking about it being a strong semi main when you have something weak on top, like a Sonnen or whoever getting a title shot, and you need something with some juice to draw in the casuals. Or a main event for a down month when you dont have anything else.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Coleman had the gutsiest performance of the year vs. Shogun, then beat Bonner. The biggest mistake UFC made was not showing the Bonner fight.

Coleman is a great "aging underdog" story, they can play that up and ignore the Couture fight. Then you play up the evil Tito punking him after the loss, and you have the perfect face/heel dynamic that sells fights.

It's a winner.

I'm not saying this as a jab, but I think you're looking at it too much from a wrestling POV whereas the story is the most important aspect. True the drama and controversy plays a big part in MMA as well, but it's not as big a factor in MMA as it is in wrestling. In MMA the drama only supplements the fight, but it's not capable of carrying a fight. All the drama in the world isn't going to sell a fight which everyone hardcore/casual fans know would be shitty. People aren't going to pay for boring fights.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not saying this as a jab, but I think you're looking at it too much from a wrestling POV whereas the story is the most important aspect. True the drama and controversy plays a big part in MMA as well, but it's not as big a factor in MMA as it is in wrestling. In MMA the drama only supplements the fight, but it's not capable of carrying a fight. All the drama in the world isn't going to sell a fight which everyone hardcore/casual fans know would be shitty. People aren't going to pay for boring fights.

"The Story" and personality of the participants is the #1 factor is selling any fight. It's why Machida/Shogun II will double what Machida/Shogun I did, and it's why WEC barely registers a rating while Ken vs. Tito sets records. I remember when nobody wanted to see that fight, either.

The easiest way to sell any fight is this guy hates the other guy, and one of them is a dick. That will never change. Ever.

 

[calgaryballer]

Yeah but notice this only really works when, you know, it involves great fighters at the top of their game. Coincidence?

You're ignoring the Ken/Tito examples, or any Kimbo fight. Obviously, having two talented guys like Chuck/Randy II makes a big difference. But often times, that means nothing.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yeah but notice this only really works when, you know, it involves great fighters at the top of their game. Coincidence?

Yeah, well, you know, you're wrong.

Neither Ken nor Tito were anywhere near the top of their game, and they did an apeshit PPV number, then broke every TV record that existed on Spike. All while the sherdog geeks complained that "nobody wants to see Ken fight Tito".

Being a great fighter is one of the least important factors of being a draw. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Still too much WWE factoring in. Kimbo was a star on free tv, huge difference. Sure Tito/Coleman would be huge on Spike with the right hype (would still make the UFC look like a joke), but selling that as a PPV is an entirely different story. But, regardless your point still doesn't stand since back then Tito was still considered a top contender. Now Tito isn't even top 10 in his division anymore and Coleman hasn't put on a decent performance since his Pride days.

 

[EmpireWF]

Still too much WWE factoring in. Kimbo was a star on free tv, huge difference. Sure Tito/Coleman would be huge on Spike with the right hype (would still make the UFC look like a joke), but selling that as a PPV is an entirely different story. But, regardless your point still doesn't stand since back then Tito was still considered a top contender. Now Tito isn't even top 10 in his division anymore and Coleman hasn't put on a decent performance since his Pride days.

I think you hit the nail on the head (albeit inadvertently) after Chuck blasts Tito, but Tito/Coleman on Spike and watch the TV Ratings soar through the roof.

Who cares if both are past their prime, they can both talk and it appears they hate each other. GOLD!

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Exactly

Not to mention Kimbo is completely irrelevant to this discussion since we're talking about fighters who work the face/heel pro-wrasslin' shtick. Dude has always been incredibly respectful to everyone in the business, at least publicly.

I never mentioned Kimbo, so I dont know why SM brought him up to begin with.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Still too much WWE factoring in. Kimbo was a star on free tv, huge difference. Sure Tito/Coleman would be huge on Spike with the right hype (would still make the UFC look like a joke), but selling that as a PPV is an entirely different story. But, regardless your point still doesn't stand since back then Tito was still considered a top contender. Now Tito isn't even top 10 in his division anymore and Coleman hasn't put on a decent performance since his Pride days.

Tito & Chuck are both well past their primes, and will work the face/heel gimmick and turn it into one of the biggest buyrates of the year.

And again, if you re read what I said, I think Tito/Coleman could be a free TV hit, a solid semi main underneath a weak main event PPV, or headline a PPV in a weak month. Nobody is saying its a monster business fight, but it would definately draw money. Im not even sure we really disagree here.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

looks like coleman's performance was good enough to get him cut from the ufc. i wonder if anyone else has ever gone from headlining a show to being cut within the next week.

It looks like it’s the end of the road between Mark Coleman and the UFC, as FiveOuncesofPain.com has recently been able to confirm through sources close to the situation that the UFC Hall of Famer has been released from the promotion following the recent defeat at the hands of fellow MMA legend, Randy Couture.

Couture controlled the action for the bulk of the headlining match-up between the pair that took place during UFC 109 before sinking in a rear-naked choke to finish the bout – and effectively Mark Coleman’s career with the UFC – in the second round.

Exclusive: Mark Coleman cut from the UFC | Five Ounces of Pain

 

[Steel Mamba]

Tito & Chuck are both well past their primes, and will work the face/heel gimmick and turn it into one of the biggest buyrates of the year.

And again, if you re read what I said, I think Tito/Coleman could be a free TV hit, a solid semi main underneath a weak main event PPV, or headline a PPV in a weak month. Nobody is saying its a monster business fight, but it would definately draw money. Im not even sure we really disagree here.

I understand what you're saying, I don't agree that it's a good co-main or main in a downtime for PPVs. Neither fighter is relevant enough anymore and there's definitely not many people willing to drop coin to see Coleman fight. The UFC cutting him is proof that he doesn't add value and Tito/Coleman isn't a fight worth putting on.

 

[Liquidrob]

lol @ Coleman getting cut after you charged people 50 bucks to see him in the main event

before the fight 'UFC Hall of Famer, godfather of ground and pound, a legend!', after the event he is a scrub who gets cut

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

Just want to point out that this card that was deemed pretty good by some and a 'great fuckin' card' by Dana White has had five of the fighters cut by the UFC already. Does anyone else find that ridiculous?

five? who are the other four besides coleman?