UFC Buys Strikeforce

[Liquidrob]

At what point is "luck" just smart business tho? Zuffa doing all those things were extremely smart business moves, especially putting TUF on after Raw.

Spike is the reason, Vince is a reason, if Griffin and Bonnar dont 'stand and bang' it might not be what it is

Going 45 mill in the hole and almost selling wasnt 'smart business'

 

[EmpireWF]

Rob, you can't blame the bad rating for the April 2010 CBS show on bad luck. The main event was not a ratings draw regardless of how the fight went.

Strikeforce could only do so much.

 

[Liquidrob]

Rob, you can't blame the bad rating for the April 2010 CBS show on bad luck. The main event was not a ratings draw regardless of how the fight went.

Strikeforce could only do so much.

It was supposed be a Fedor vs Werdum main event and a Hendo co-main, it would have done more than the first CBS show for Strikeforce, M-1/Fedor tanked it

M-1/Fedor screwed themselves in the long run by backing out of the CBS fight, bad luck for Strikeforce, the pieces were in place, the 'boring' fights just made it worse

 

[EmpireWF]

It isnt for creating a legit sport which it currently is not, please no NFL, MLB, NBA comparsions please, those are for idiots to use, you guys are smarter than that

It will always be compared to pro wrestling which is not a good thing the way they're going

The only MMA company that could be considered as true a "sport" in how it's match-ups are determined is Bellator. We've said that for a long time.

Everyone else is in the sports entertainment business.

 

[Liquidrob]

They were betting on Hendo KO'ing Jake and Fedor smashing Werdum which were the likely outcomes, but M-1 pulled out and Hendo got lay and prayed

When you are a new promotion luck is a huge factor, it just is, to deny it is crazy, it's a gamble and they lost pretty much every time

 

[EmpireWF]

They were betting on Hendo KO'ing Jake and Fedor smashing Werdum which were the likely outcomes, but M-1 pulled out and Hendo got lay and prayed

When you are a new promotion luck is a huge factor, it just is, to deny it is crazy, it's a gamble and they lost pretty much every time

They pretty much knew Fedor wasn't fighting in April 2010 as early as February. Have to assume they tried to find something else to add to the show even though it was stacked as is. When the main event slot on CBS was left to Dan Henderson, had to expect it wasn't going to be a gangbusters of a rating. Sucks they couldn't get Herschel for that one.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

The only MMA company that could be considered as true a "sport" in how it's match-ups are determined is Bellator. We've said that for a long time.

Everyone else is in the sports entertainment business.

Yeah putting champions against cans isnt a "sports entertainment" trait at all..

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Spike is the reason, Vince is a reason, if Griffin and Bonnar dont 'stand and bang' it might not be what it is

Going 45 mill in the hole and almost selling wasnt 'smart business'

So ZUFFA can just attribute all their success to luck?

 

[Liquidrob]

So ZUFFA can just attribute all their success to luck?

The majority of it, yes

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yeah putting champions against cans isnt a "sports entertainment" trait at all..

Bellator has these fighters under contract, they have to keep them busy and they have to make a living. I don't understand why people are so offended by the non title fights. Bellator is the closest thing to pure sport, but even actual sports are sports entertainment, depends how far you want to take it.

And rob is 100% right when he says Zuffa lucked out with TUF. Can't be denied. It was Vince's call, if he was having a bad day or had listened to Heyman and said no, who knows if UFC even exists today.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Bellator has these fighters under contract, they have to keep them busy and they have to make a living. I don't understand why people are so offended by the non title fights. Bellator is the closest thing to pure sport, but even actual sports are sports entertainment, depends how far you want to take it.

And rob is 100% right when he says Zuffa lucked out with TUF. Can't be denied. It was Vince's call, if he was having a bad day or had listened to Heyman and said no, who knows if UFC even exists today.

Im not offended, I dont even care, but thats clearly something "sports entertainment" was known for.

 

[EmpireWF]

After more reading, some MOAR thoughts...

There is no doubt Dana's interview with Ariel was mostly PR besides breaking the news. The stuff about contracts and needing them to expire is fishy. Plus, by many accounts, expect what's going to happen over the next two years to be similar to WEC.

First, the contracts. Zuffa owns them. Just like Zuffa owned the WEC contracts which a majority of the former WEC guys are continuing to fight on. They didn't need for them to expire to bring them over and book them in the UFC. The detail about needing contracts to expire is only if they truly intend to run both UFC and Strikeforce as separate entities.

Showtime is the big wheel in this deal because there's no reason to believe they are a lot like Versus (minus the rift between their execs and Dana). Zuffa purchased WEC in large part to keep other promotions off of Versus and were able to originally showcase guys who werent prepared for the UFC (Jake Rosholt, Brian Stann, Donald Cerrone, etc.) and it featured lighter weights that weren't in UFC.

As long as Showtime doesn't pull a power play and axe their contract, Zuffa is in a position where may not be able to prevent other brands from being showcased (and it will be increasingly interesting to see if Showtime tries to irk Dana by airing all kinds of MMA besides M-1). So it's the waiting game. By all accounts, 2 years remain on the deal.

As we saw with WEC, the UFC eventually ended up absorbing everyone they wanted. With Strikeforce, will they cherry pick guys who can provide fresh fights? Think Nick Diaz, Gilbert Melendez, Josh Thomson, Tim Kennedy, Robbie Lawler, etc. The only issue is they probably don't want to go full boar in turning SF into a minor leagues type of brand by bringing over a lot of the top talent. So that means, keep it as is with the exception of guys whose contracts expire and can negotiate a new deal (Dan Henderson is one).

More or less, as long as Zuffa has a contractual commitment to provide live MMA content to Showtime, I would not expect them to raid the big talent. They may pluck a guy here or there when necessary to fill a spot (Dana refuted this idea to Ariel), but for the most part, they will keep Strikeforce as is.

If nothing major changes, over time, I'd expect to see the exodus of guys to UFC pending whether or not they don't go on an Arlovski-sized losing streak (guys like Diaz, Melendez, Big Foot, Kharitonov, Woodley, Jacare, Mo, Mousasi, Feijao, Thomson, Kawajiri, Aoki, etc.). In 16 months or so, I wouldn't be surprised if Strikeforce ends up as a talent development type of place with guys who may not be ready for the UFC.

And whenever the deal with Showtime is up, the Strikeforce brand will be as dead as ECW is today.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The only reason Dana talked about himself and Coker negotkating against each other for free agents, was to try and deflect the obvious backlash from fighters who see the writing on the wall in terms of leverage.

These are all Zuffa fighters now, the will do as they see fit with every single one of them. Even if that isn't the intention today.

 

[SHOGUN]

The only MMA company that could be considered as true a "sport" in how it's match-ups are determined is Bellator.

:nope:

Shooto.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Exactly, it's something people who study both have been saying for years, larry knows.

It's blatantly obvious how he follows the exact same business model, from gobbling up opposition, to refsing to concede production to third parties, to pushing the brand ahead of the sport and actually claiming the brand is the sport, to holding lifelong grudges against people who go against him (but always doing a 180 when it's best for business), and his egomaniacal, almost psychotic passion and drive to completely dominate the market.

Even the way he flippantly refers to other MMA, "those other shows", is the same way Vince blows off other wrestling. Who knows what they really think, but they both think its important to give the perception that they dont care or concern themselves with anybody else. Dana says he "barely ever watched their shows" when talking about SF, everyone knows he's full of shit, but he says it anyway, it perpetuates the perception he is larger than it all.

He either very intentionally models himself after Vince, or is one of the illegitimate sons Vince has around the northeast swing of the old WWWF from when he was banging out everything that moved when he was a college dropout managing dad's territory swings.

That's what I was saying in the other thread in regards to perception. Dana went out and pounded the pavement, molded the publics perception (the general masses are a bunch of lemmings and always follow in step). That's something Scott Coker never tried to do and a big part of the reason as to why his product was viewed as 2nd rate. So, it's not purely star based, a large part of it is generating a perception as you admit here. The perception has to be molded first in order for the stars to shine.

But, being an egomaniac and trying to dominate the market can link back to many promoters and CEO's. Vince certainly isn't the only or first person to approach his business that way.

What the UFC does admit to copying from the WWE is their PPV model, in that their entire business revolves around growing their PPV's. Whether it's merchandising, sponsorships, etc it all should link back and grow their PPV numbers. That's the model they've taken from the WWE.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Double post

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Dana's latest Vince move is the aggressive international expansion. Vince saw the lay of the land a few years ago, and realised his freshest unexploited markets were abroad. Now UFC is doing this as well.

For two guys who don't hesistate to talk all sorts of crazy shit and thrive on making enemies, they never ever talk about each other and always change the topic or blow off comparisons. Like neither one wants any part of the other. I think Dana admires Vince, and Vince is smart enough to recognize he is being pummled on PPV largely due to much of his old audience moving on to MMA. Neither wants to poke the other.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Dana's latest Vince move is the aggressive international expansion. Vince saw the lay of the land a few years ago, and realised his freshest unexploited markets were abroad. Now UFC is doing this as well.

For two guys who don't hesistate to talk all sorts of crazy shit and thrive on making enemies, they never ever talk about each other and always change the topic or blow off comparisons. Like neither one wants any part of the other. I think Dana admires Vince, and Vince is smart enough to recognize he is being pummled on PPV largely due to much of his old audience moving on to MMA. Neither wants to poke the other.

That's not a Vince move. That's a move every major company has made in modern times. U guys give Vince too much credit.

 

[EmpireWF]

WWE for years and I think to this day will refute any statement that UFC is their competitor.

Doing so would admit they have been getting their ass kicked on PPV since 2006.

It's comical when they are respectful of what the UFC has done, but don't see any relation to their business. Especially when they do investor conferences.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

That's not a Vince move. That's a move every major company has made in modern times. U guys give Vince too much credit.

We aren't talking about "major companies" we are talking about sports entertainment entities. WWE and UFC are apples and apples, WWE and some tech firm or auto maker is apples/oranges.

PPV is just now expanding overseas, north america was ahead of the curve, but as other parts of the world adapt to it that is where wwe has grown. WWE domestic ppv drops every year, in large part due to ufc. Dana sees this and also knows domestically his run of the mill shows are flat (and even dropping), you have to hook those fresh markets where both ppv and UFC is a novelty.

The problem, is WWE gets hot in certain countries, but fads out quickly because the product gets stale. Italy for example. UFC has done a much better job of hooking people long term.