Warner2BruceTD - name your 5* matches...others invited, too.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

As a man who self-admittedly is very stingy with the 5*...state some matches you feel are the cream of the crop.

Perhaps a WWF/E match or two...a Lucha Match...a puro match...a hardcore/brawler style match...

I'm just trying to gauge what your tippy top stuff is.

I'm a little looser with the ratings...so...it'll potentially be a good contrast for discussion if we get into it deep enough.

GO.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not really a star rating guy, so I will have to think about it.

I will come back with a list of what I think are the best matches i've ever seen.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

NOW.

 

[EmpireWF]

3 of the best matches I've seen, my favorites

Bret vs. Owen - Wrestlemania
Naomichi Marufuji vs. Kenta - October 2006 NOAH
Bryan Danielson vs. Kenta - September 2006 ROH

All three were given 4 and 3/4 stars by Meltzer.

Are there any 5* brawls? The obvious lucha match for us gringos is the AAA PPV tag with Guerrero/Barr 17 years ago. Any modern lucha 5* quality stuff?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The most acclaimed lucha match of recent vintage was the LA Park vs Mesias match from a year or two ago. It would also qualify as a brawl. Two birds, one stone.

Of course, there is the Atlantis vs Villano III mask vs mask match from 2000 that won the Observer Match of the Year. If you know the voting history of the Observer Awards, you would know they aren't very kind to lucha, so for a lucha match to win you just know that match was tits.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

KENTA vs Low Ki - ROH 'Final Battle' 2005

Blood Generation (CIMA, Masato Yoshino, Naruki Doi) vs Do Fixer (Dragon Kid, Ryo Saito, Genki Horiguchi) - ROH 'Supercard of Honor' 2006

Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - WWF 'WrestleMania X'

Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - WWF 'WrestleMania XIII'

Los Gringos Locos (Eddy Guerrero & Art Barr) vs El Hijo Del Santo & Octagon - AAA 'When Worlds Collide' 11/6/94

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask, Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuhara Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi matches that I no doubt thought were five stars, but those guys all wrestled each other so many times that I get confused and have to go back and figure out which matches were which before I commit to dates.

The five I listed immediately come to mind as 'perfect' for me. FWIW, of the five, Meltzer gave the DG 6-man, Hart/Austin, & the AAA tag five stars as well.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Meltzer 5-star WWE matches, all time:

* 3/20/94 Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (Ladder Match, WrestleMania X)

* 8/29/94 Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (Cage Match, SummerSlam 1994)

* 3/23/97 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Submission Match, WrestleMania13)

* 10/5/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell Match, In Your House: Bad Blood)

* 7/17/11 John Cena vs. CM Punk (Money in the Bank)



Wade Keller:

Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - WrestleMania X ladder match

Shawn Michaels vs Triple H vs Chris Benoit - WrestleMania XX

Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XXIV

CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the Bank 2011


Personally, I think Meltzer is nuts when it comes to the HBK/Undertaker match.

The Flair/HBK match is an interesting case. Obviously i've seen stronger work from both. I think if I gave it five, I would have later rescinded after Flair broke the retirement stip. Without honoring the stip, the match loses a lot of its luster.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Just for a reference...in the past two years...I have three 5* matches...and all for different reasons.

CM Punk v. John Cena @ Money in the Bank 2011.
Davey Richards v. Michael Elgin @ Showdown in the Sun 2012.
Hiroshi Tanahashi v. Minoru Suzuki @ King of Pro Wrestling 2012.

...

Other random 5* matches...

Of the WWE variety...

Shawn Michaels v. Razor Ramon - Ladder Match @ WrestleMania X.
Ricky Steamboat v. Randy Savage @ WrestleMania III
Owen Hart v Brett Hart @ WrestleMania X
Bret Hart v. Steve Austin @ WrestleMania XIII

Of the NWA/WCW variety...

Magnum TA v. Tully Blanchard - 'I Quit' Match @ Starrcade '85
Ric Flair v. Ricky Steamboat @ Chi-Town Rumble '89; Clash of the Champions VI; and WrestleWar '89
Jushin Liger v. Brian Pillman in '91.

Some Lucha

The obligatory Guerrero/Barr v. Son of Dos Santo and Octagon.

Some Japs and American Indy

Samoa Joe v. Kenta Kobashi from JOE v KOBASHI
Dynamite Kid v. Tiger Mask from the April 21st show.
Liger v. Sano
Great Sasuke v. Jushin Liger
Punk v. Joe II
Benoit v. Great Sasuke in the Super J Cup

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

It seems like all of us here prefer the Bret/Owen WMX match to the Summerslam cage match. I find that interesting since the consensus is that the Summerslam match was better.

I'd like Fed or somebody else other than Empire/Larry to weigh in. WM or SS?

 

[FedEx227]

Pretty sweet that I've seen 3 of the 5 all-time WWE Meltzer five stars live.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It seems like all of us here prefer the Bret/Owen WMX match to the Summerslam cage match. I find that interesting since the consensus is that the Summerslam match was better.

I'd like Fed or somebody else other than Empire/Larry to weigh in. WM or SS?

Let's just keep it real...

Owen Hart coming out and saying IM THE BEST! is what puts WrestleMania over the top.

And to be honest, I really liked the cage match, but I haven't seen it in many many years.

 

[FedEx227]

Personally, I like the WrestleMania match better mainly because I really hate WWE-style cage matches because they just don't make sense. They ruin the psychology of the match IMO. Now the crowd was hotter for the Summerslam so that may play into it and while it's an awesome, awesome match, it's just a weirdly-booked cage match. Half of the match is Owen jumping towards the door and getting grabbed, to me, that's boring psychology, albeit still fun.

Long story short: Mania.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Also, in the lead up Owen/Bret at WrestleMania...great lulz...Hart and Owen start seeing eye to eye after Bret turned down Owen's challenge...and in a promo, he's like "I'm glad I don't have to know who the better man is...now, we see eye to eye and we can put all of this energy toward fighting..."

WAIT FOR IT...













WAIT FOR IT...

 

THE QUEBECERS!!

fucking dead.

Owen is about to laugh, you can see his jaw clench lol

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Personally, I like the WrestleMania match better mainly because I really hate WWE-style cage matches because they just don't make sense. They ruin the psychology of the match IMO. Now the crowd was hotter for the Summerslam so that may play into it and while it's an awesome, awesome match, it's just a weirdly-booked cage match. Half of the match is Owen jumping towards the door and getting grabbed, to me, that's boring psychology, albeit still fun.

Long story short: Mania.

Thats one of the main critiques of the cage match, that Owen spends too much time trying to escape. I happen to agree.

Anyway, I have three more FIVE STARS to add to my list, I can't believe I forgot these last night, but here they are:

BURNING (Kenta Kobashi, KENTA, Atsushi Aoki, Akihito Ito) vs Kensuke Office (Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Takashi Okita, Kento Miyahara) elimination match - Kensuke Office, 8/17/2008

KENTA vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - Kensuke Office, 2/11/2009

KENTA vs Katsuhiko Nakajima - NOAH, 3/1/2009

*****************************************************

The elimination match is an hour plus and never drags. The two KENTA/Nakajima matches are just amazing, and all three should be watched in order to fully appreciate. The BURNING vs KO feud of 08/09 is great stuff.

KENTA's 2009 is possibly the greatest in ring year ever, despite the fact he tore his knee and missed half the year. Besides the Nakajima matches, he also had the Nigel McGuinness match at ROH 7th Anniversary, the Davey Richards match at ROH WrestleMania weekend in Houston, and the great ROH on HDNet matches vs Chris Hero & Roderick Strong. Not to mention NOAH matches against Kotaro Suzuki & Atsushi Aoki.

Missy Hyatt called the McGuinness match the best match she ever saw live, and the Davey match would have been five stars from everybody on the planet if not for the botched finish.

 

[FedEx227]

There's so much awesomeness in the buildup to that Mania match. There was that Christmas promo where Owen subtly says "You know I said a lot of things and it really doesn't matter if they were true or not, 1994 is going to be the year The Rocket takes off with my brother right behind me"

SO subtle, but so good. Fucking love that feud.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Imagine if Vince had gotten his way and BRUCE was in the Owen spot.

 

[FedEx227]

mg2:

God that was going to be ridiculous.

 

[s@ppisgod]

It seems like all of us here prefer the Bret/Owen WMX match to the Summerslam cage match. I find that interesting since the consensus is that the Summerslam match was better.

I'd like Fed or somebody else other than Empire/Larry to weigh in. WM or SS?

Methinks you spend too much time on the Observer boards, which I'd guess have their share of Meltzer lemmings. Because I've always thought the WM match is far and away the consensus better match. I love both, personally, as WM X was the first PPV my parents ever got me, and SS was the first tape my Dad's buddy sent over and I watched that shit over and over. To this day, I can't seem to forget Leslie Neilsen's awful involvement.

Bret/Owen at WM was better technically, and better for the result. Owen countering Bret's victory roll, beating his superstar brother clean in the middle of the ring legitimized Owen. And doesn't count for anything in the stand-alone match, but Bret winning the belt at the end and Owen seething in the aisle is just perfect. That wouldn't work nowadays, someone losing in the undercard, then winning the ME and title. In a way, I definitely miss the old WMs, and prefer them to today's, despite the ridiculous presentation.

 

[s@ppisgod]

There's so much awesomeness in the buildup to that Mania match. There was that Christmas promo where Owen subtly says "You know I said a lot of things and it really doesn't matter if they were true or not, 1994 is going to be the year The Rocket takes off with my brother right behind me"

SO subtle, but so good. Fucking love that feud.

Greatest thing ever in wrestling. The Superstars interviews were so money. And of course the legendary Owen remark of "I kicked your leg out of your leg!"