Weis out as Notre Dame coach... Who's your pick to replace him?

[Irish]

I heard on ESPN that Kelly said he wouldnt leave Cincinnati.

ND obviously hasnt told him how much money he can make.

As for some other names floating around

Kirk Ferentz:
Has 3 children enrolled at Iowa. Likes where he is and has gone on record saying he wont leave.

Butch Davis:
Maybe but i dont see him leaving UNC. And i dont think he would do well.

 

[Sven Draconian]

No.


He won the Pac 10 when it was in a down season and had some ugly losses that year. He didn't win the Pac 10 when USC, Oregon, Ore St, etc were forces. Plus if you look at his entire body of work at Stanford it was very mediocre.

Ok. So he won a weak league and he was medicore at Stanford. That doesn't mean you only give him 3 seasons and can him.

LOL at this coming from the guy who discounts recruiting rankings. STFU with this hypocritical BS. Either you can look at class ranks or you can't. But if we want to look at his other classes they were pathetic as padman already pointed out. His last class is widely seen as one of the worst in Notre Dame history.

It's not hypocritical. He did have a good recruiting class (and, judging by the Weis early success, the team had some talent). Do I think the recruiting ranking is a good system, absolutely not, but he still put in a top class.

Hypocracy is more like ripping Wilingham for not bringing in talent, and ripping Weis for an inability to coach despite the fact he made 2 BCS bowls. Either Weis coached poor talent, or Wilingham brought in good talent.

False. He beat FSU once down there. His first season. That game was the crest of the Willingham era. The next week they lost to Boston College at home and then it was downhill from there for him. The next season he played FSU but got blown out 37-0 at home.

Yup, misread the schedule when I looked at it.

Deservedly so.


Outside of Samardzija most everyone that contributed under Weis saw big playing time under Willingham. They just sucked.

Doesn't that mean Weis developed them?

No firing was "imminent" until the losses to Navy and then to UCONN. Before the Navy game the team was 6-2 and headed to a New Years Day Bowl(Gator) or perhaps a BCS birth. It must not have bugged the team a ton seeing as they were sitting at 6-2 after shellacking Wazzou. After the Navy loss the wheels came off. People can put up close losses to USC if they see progress in the program and he beats every other team he was supposed to(as he did in 2005 and 2006) but when you start losing close games with the talent he had AND losing to teams like Navy and UCONN at home people won't tolerate that.

A firing doesn't have to be imminent to be a distraction. Heading into the season the rumors started. They blow a game, the firing is now inevitable and the season tanks. Should they have lost to Navy? Absolutely not, but upsets happen. Fact is, once that upset happened Weis lost that team because everyone new he was gone....because everyone wanted him gone after the 2007 season.

It's not as if the expectations levied on the program were done by outsiders. Weis did it to himself. 6-5 isn't good enough. 9-3 isn't good enough. Weis did those things to himself. He set the expectations. He told people in the program this was a year for a big bowl or a BCS birth. That's what he sold to Swarbrick after last season. When the team fell short of the expectations Weis set and sold to the administration as part of him staying on for this season he had to stand responsible for that as he said he would have teh team prepared for that type of run.

That has nothing to do with job security at Notre Dame. Weis doesn't seem bitter about being fired, but that has nothing to do with the realities of a coach risking his career to coach at ND.

Try 0%.

You are correct.

LOL. Ok whatever. Throw out rankings for all I care. Take Notre Dame out of the equation too. All these players are being looked at by the top programs. Are they wasting their time, resources, money, etc to look at kids just for the hell of it. Like I said earlier if Notre Dame was landing "4 star" guys that none of the other top schools were looking at and going after hard I could maybe the point. But that's not the case and the classes are obviously highly talented or have the ability to be based on what other schools think of them. Could the kid flop and people be wrong? Sure, but more often than not teams like USC, FLorida etc get these kids on campus and coach them up on both sides of the ball. Weis wasn't able to do that on defense.

How many Notre Dame kids are going to be drafted in the 1st round? How many from USC and Florida? Notre Dame does not bring in that level of talent, to think otherwise is pure homerism.

This is pointless and I'm done with the recruiting rankings stuff. You want to discount it when talking about Weis etc but bring it up twice when making a case for Willingham getting fucked over. I put stock in recruiting rankings and the system as well as what other schools think of the kids and if they are also being recruited heavily by other top schools. It's a pretty good sign that the kid has some big time talent/potential. It's not a perfect system but at the same time I respect the national Scouts, most other schools scouts and their ability to assess talent. It's an imperfect science but there has to be someway to gauge the type of talent coming into the program each season to see if that coach is doing part of his job in keeping the school flush with talent on the field.

Would the easiest way to do that be, I don't know, watching the games? The difference between a KID at 18 and his development into a man at 22/23 years old is remarkable and unpredictable.

You can look at an entire body of work and say School X brings in More talent than School Y. That involves years. To predict individual classes and players and lambast a coach for underperforming is idiotic to say the least. It's not different than the draft niks predicting a 1st round which is going to produce 50% "busts".

Atleast people realize the risks of the drafts, but they ignore the same exact issue with college recruits...instead blaming the coach when a 17 yeard old stops growing and doen't live up to potential.

 

[FirstTimer]

Ok. So he won a weak league and he was medicore at Stanford. That doesn't mean you only give him 3 seasons and can him.

It does if you see nothing but diminishing returns on the horizon. What reason did Notre Dame have to keep him? They weren't playing well, were recruiting like shit, Willingham was showing serious sings of not taking the job seriously and they weren't competitive. There was no reason to keep him around.

It's not hypocritical. He did have a good recruiting class (and, judging by the Weis early success, the team had some talent). Do I think the recruiting ranking is a good system, absolutely not, but he still put in a top class.

Top class according to what? Rankings don't exist they are BS. Remember? It's entirely hypocritical and it's both laughable and sad you can't even see why.

Hypocracy is more like ripping Wilingham for not bringing in talent, and ripping Weis for an inability to coach despite the fact he made 2 BCS bowls. Either Weis coached poor talent, or Wilingham brought in good talent.

No one ever said Willingham never brought in talent. He obviously did...the problem was that he only did it once and could never repeat it. In fact it kept getting worse.

Doesn't that mean Weis developed them?

Yep. Weis can develop offenses....we know that. We saw that this year. The problem is Weis could never do anything on the other side of the ball. Especially talent development. That's why ND is placing an emphasis on an experienced coach who has a track record with defense and handling an entire team.

A firing doesn't have to be imminent to be a distraction. Heading into the season the rumors started. They blow a game, the firing is now inevitable and the season tanks.

They lost to Michigan early in the year and the season didn't tank. They came back played good football barely lost to USC, beat BC at Notre Dame for the first time in a decade then eventually lost to Navy....a team they hadn't had back to back losses against at home since before JFK was assassinated. In fact, I'm not sure it has EVER happened.

Should they have lost to Navy? Absolutely not, but upsets happen. Fact is, once that upset happened Weis lost that team because everyone knew he was gone

UCONN sealed his fate. Even with a loss to Navy had he beat UCONN and Stanford and lost to Pitt that's be an 8-4 season and a bid to the Gator Bowl on New Years Day. That would have gotten Weis another season.

....because everyone wanted him gone after the 2007 season.

Not true in the least. Weis, AD at the time Kevin White and most any fan knew 2007 would be a bad season. Sure it was worse than expected in some ways but "everyone" did not want him gone. That's not even close to being true.

That has nothing to do with job security at Notre Dame. Weis doesn't seem bitter about being fired, but that has nothing to do with the realities of a coach risking his career to coach at ND.

He doesn't seem bitter? Are you kidding me? it's clear to me now that you have no idea what you are talking about. Weis said in an interview he won't send his kid to Notre Dame, he won't forgive the toll that it has taken on his family, and that he will be happy to return to the NFL because he is more respected there. Yeah, that doesn't sound bitter. I don't blame him for being bitter but to say Weis doesn't have some bitterness is absurd.

How many Notre Dame kids are going to be drafted in the 1st round? How many from USC and Florida? Notre Dame does not bring in that level of talent, to think otherwise is pure homerism.

Clausen, Tate, Floyd, Rudolph all have 1st Rnd potential on offense alone from this years team. I'll tell you for sure in April.

Would the easiest way to do that be, I don't know, watching the games? The difference between a KID at 18 and his development into a man at 22/23 years old is remarkable and unpredictable.

No shit sherlock. But when they are 18 people are going to naturally try and predict what kids will end up being. That's why teams have these things called "scouts" try to determine not only what the kid is but what he will become. Along with the scouts for teams there are also "scouts" for regional services and the like. teams obviously send these "scouts" to find the best players in the nation that are not only great players now....but have the opportunity to be in the future. They then rate them based on their opinion pass that along and the schools would obviously go and try and get the players that are not only good now but that they and the "scouts" will be great players down the road. The idea you are putting forth could be achieved by a team like Floirda recruiting every damn kid from one high school team then basically just letting them play and see what happens with no regard to what they project to or not. Scouts can be wrong yes. But according to you every team's recruiting class has basically the same potential..when that's not the case. Some players are just better football than other and develop into that. That's what recruiting tries to do and what "scouts" try and predict.

This is bordering on an asinine argument right now....

Atleast people realize the risks of the drafts, but they ignore the same exact issue with college recruits...instead blaming the coach when a 17 yeard old stops growing and doen't live up to potential.

Yeah because that's what people did with Willingham. I mean Willingham's lack of ability to even get 17 year olds to come to Notre Dame was bad enough(Notre Dame just got back to having a roster full of scholarship players THIS season) let alone the fact that he didn't recruit a single OFFENSIVE LINEMAN for TWO YEARS. Say what you want about talent development and if 17 year olds develop or whatever but it's impossible to develop kids that don't even go to your school and I'd venture it's safe bet that to field a competitive team with no offensive line is impossible. Is there any better example of inept recruiting than that?

But I'm seriously done discussing this with you. I'm not going to change your mind on scouting and recruiting rankings or whatever and you won't change mine. I'm done going in circles. If you want to discuss the next coach I'm all up for that. I'm done talking about the past and debating the Ty Willingham firing and am done with the Weis shit.

Onward and forward.

 

[FirstTimer]

Skip Holtz FTW.

That'd be interesting......

 

[FirstTimer]

I heard on ESPN that Kelly said he wouldnt leave Cincinnati.

ND obviously hasnt told him how much money he can make.

As for some other names floating around

Kirk Ferentz:
Has 3 children enrolled at Iowa. Likes where he is and has gone on record saying he wont leave.

Butch Davis:
Maybe but i dont see him leaving UNC. And i dont think he would do well.

I'm betting in the end it's either Ferentz or Kelly. Edsall would be really interesting though but I'm hard pressed to see him leave after the Jasper Howard stuff.

 

[Woy]

That'd be interesting......

I seriously think that's going to happen. Patterson and Stoops are out of the picture and it doesn't look like they are going to get Kelly. Who else does that leave?

 

[FirstTimer]

I seriously think that's going to happen. Patterson and Stoops are out of the picture and it doesn't look like they are going to get Kelly. Who else does that leave?

Chuck Norris, Jack Bauer, and Bill Brasky.

 

[Woy]

Chuck Norris, Jack Bauer, and Bill Brasky.

Chuck Norris would make that defense better, and the kicking game too.

 

[padman59]

These facts are absolutely true, but irrevelant to the fact that ND has no job security.

Willingham did win the Pac 10 (So he isn't a mouth breather as was proclaimed by Firsttimer), you can argue the accomplishment all you want, that's fine.

Either way, he has a 10 win season (Not a BCS year, that what happpens when you are looking up stats at 2 a.m., by mistake) and two medicore years and was canned.

How is recruiting and gameplanning irrelevant to a college coach's job security? Aren't those possibly the two highest priority tasks for the position? You could boil the responsibilities of a college head coach down to bringing in guys that can play and putting them in position to succeed on the field. Ty failed miserably at both after his first season at ND, and Weis failed at the latter in his last three.

Again, Notre Dame isn't a school where the administration doesn't care about how the football program fares. Any tradition rich school has similar standards. Ron Zook was fired after three years in Florida, Pitt fired Walt Harris after he won the Bit East title, Miami fired Larry Coker with a 60-15 record. I'm sure there are other examples out there as well.

They were top 10 at the time.

So if a coach beats a team that was ranked in the top ten in the second week of the season but said team goes on to lose six games, does that still count as a win over a top ten team? I don't think so.

Ok. They didn't meet expectations.

Quite the understatement.

I thought 7-6 (2008 record) would count as a winning season.

6-6 regular season. Going .500 for the regular season doesn't guarantee anyone a bowl game, much less a major bowl invite.

Were you at practice to observe this improper coaching? At what skills were they improperly coached?

You're joking, right? Have you watched Notre Dame football games in the past few seasons? You didn't need to be at practice to see that most of his (and his staff's) techniques weren't translating on the field on gamedays.

You would have seen an offensive line that couldn't block in any facet in '07, couldn't run block in '08, and had trouble with four man fronts in pass protection this season.

You would have seen a defense that had problems stopping anyone with poor pursuit angles, poor tackling, poor coverage, and the inability of linemen to get off blocks.

You would have seen poor special teams play.

Anyone who has seen the Irish play recently can see the team was "improperly coached."

 

[FirstTimer]

What a difference a week makes.

A week ago the names were: Stoops, Patterson, and Kelly.

A week later: Stoops has denied wanting to go to South Bend.

Patterson gets an extension

And now today there are all sorts of reports on Kelly ranging from: He's going to be the coach at Notre Dame to Cincinnati and him have agreed to a contract extension/raise per (FootballCoachScoop.com) to He is not on Notre Dame's short list even if available.

Also, Kelly was on Cincinnati radio saying that he is going to stay.

http://www.blueandgold.com/content/?aid=8348

• Starting right at the top of the list with the candidate many consider to be the favorite to replace Charlie Weis, Cincinnati’s Brian Kelly continues to do what he can to deflect discussions about the Notre Dame job, especially as his team prepares for Saturday’s showdown with Pittsburgh for the Big East regular season title.
Swarbrick denied that his list of potential candidates is as extensive as has been widely reported.

Tuesday evening on his Cincinnati WEBN’s Dawn Patrol, he declared his loyalty to the Bearcats program, and expressed a desire to stay with the program, presumably into the 2010 season.

“I’m staying, man. I’m staying,” Kelly said on the show. “Why would I go? It’s always about staying, first. First and foremost.

“I’m very happy at Cincinnati. Our kids love it here. Our family loves it here. We’re just going to focus in on building this program, getting it bigger and better so we can … well, I’ve got to win to stay on this radio show. So I’ve got a lot of work ahead of me.”

The names I'm hearing now(with Kelly's fading a bit) that are on Notre Dame's short list are:

Butch Davis--Head Coach at UNC
Randy Edsall--Head Coach at UCONN
Jim Harbaugh--Head Coach at Stanford
Skip Holtz--Head Coach at ECU
Charlie Strong--Ast Head Coach/ Defensive Coordinator at Florida.

Fun times.

Who the hell knows anymore!

 

[FirstTimer]

Notre Dame is unlikely to go to a bowl game according to wide spread reports.

 

[FirstTimer]

Notre Dame is not going to a bowl this year.

Now it's being reported on ESPN (via the Chicago Sun Times) saying that Bob Stoops is the leading candidate for the job and it may be filled as early as tomorrow.

Bob Stoops has come out and said "I will not be the next head coach at Notre Dame"

It's also being reported that Brian Kelly told his players that he "not going" to Notre Dame.

Phil Fullmer says he is interested in the job and reports say he wants to get back into coaching badly and "covets" the Notre Dame job.

 

[Sportsbuck]

Just to add on to what Firsttimer said, should Bob Stoops take the ND job, its rumored Kelly will be Oklahoma's top choice as his replacement.

 

[FirstTimer]

Notre Dame now says they are not close to naming a coach and the Sun Times has removed the story about the coaching position being filled as soon as tomorrow.

This is getting fucking crazy.

 

[FirstTimer]

Also, a hilarious article from BlueGraySky.com about the coaching rumor mill.

http://bluegraysky.blogspot.com/2009_12_01_archive.html#7014119063071457519

Here's an object lesson in how rumors get started, and how quickly they spread in the internet age.

1. Friend of BGS decides (not at our behest, by the way) to email the rumor site FootballCoachScoop.com with a choice tidbit. FootballCoachScoop seems to post all kinds of unsubstantiated rumors, and said friend wants to see how easy it is to get something started.

2. Friend composes a very short, but specific email: I used to work in the athletic department at Notre Dame (a lie), and I have heard that Jack Swarbrick is interested in Bret Bielema, the head coach at the University of Wisconsin. This was at 6:56pm last evening. The email is sent from a free gmail account. There is no other email sent from friend, no attempt to "sell" the rumor beyond the initial communication, and nothing else to back up his credibility.

3. Meanwhile, friend has another buddy randomly tweet a few times about the Bielema rumors, and goes to bed.

4. FootballCoachScoop does not reply to the email. FootballCoachScoop does not ask any followup questions. FootballCoachScoop, to friend's knowledge, makes no attempt to verify emailer's bona fides in any way.

5. The next morning, FootballCoachScoop runs the rumor almost verbatim. Friend chuckles and shares the development with a few friends.

6. Later in the day, BGS notices a piece posted to "the Examiner", a Huffington Post-style blogging site that allows anyone with an email address to register as a "reporter." Joshua Burns picks up on the FootballScoop item and pens this:

Notre Dame AD to talk with Wisconsin head coach Bret Bielema this weekend
December 4, 2:15 PM Cincinnati Bearcats Examiner Joshua Burns

Another day, another new name has surfaced in the Notre Dame head coaching search.

According to FootballCoachScoop.com, Irish AD Jack Swarbrick is "very interested" in talking to Wisconsin head coach Bret Bielema, after the Badgers trip from Hawaii this weekend.

Bielema's name has not been mentioned in prior discussions about the Notre Dame opening. He joins a list of reported candidates that includes Jim Harbaugh (Stanford), Skip Holtz (ECU), Randy Edsall (UConn), and Brian Kelly (Cincinnati).

Bielema was an assistant coach at the University of Iowa from 1993 to 2001. He then became the co-defensive coordinator for Kansas State University from 2002 to 2003. He took the same position at the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 2004.

The Wisconsin coach joins a chaotic rumer mill surrounding the Irish head coaching void left by the firing of Charlie Weis. Most expect answers to many of the questions surrounding the search after this weekend, the last regular-season weekend before bowl games begin.

"Examiner" posts have sometimes popped up in my google reader, linked alongside legitimate news stories from legitimate news outlets. I wonder if it will show up.

UPDATE: voilà, there it is. This is now on a national newswire.

In the meantime, please know that to our knowledge, there is absolutely no truth to the rumor that Jack Swarbrick is in any way interested in Bret Bielema as the next coach for Notre Dame.

And please, most of all...don't trust the internet!

UPDATE II: John Taylor, blogging for NBCsports.com, picked up the rumor from FootballCoachScoop, but then realized it was a goof, and printed a pretty entertaining retraction.

UPDATE III: This is officially hilarious. A Madison.com reporter, Jim Polzin, picked up the FootballCoachScoop rumor and actually tracked down Bielema in Hawaii for a statement. He also called Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez. Both men, of course, had no idea what Polzin was talking about and denied any contact between Notre Dame and themselves.

UPDATE IV: Polzin catches on, and updates his story with a link to this post. In the meantime, ESPN blogger Adam Rittenberg has also published the rumor but quickly retracted it.

Okay, enough rumor-busting for the evening. Have a great weekend, everyone.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Notre Dame is not going to a bowl this year.

Now it's being reported on ESPN (via the Chicago Sun Times) saying that Bob Stoops is the leading candidate for the job and it may be filled as early as tomorrow.

Bob Stoops has come out and said "I will not be the next head coach at Notre Dame"

It's also being reported that Brian Kelly told his players that he "not going" to Notre Dame.

Phil Fullmer says he is interested in the job and reports say he wants to get back into coaching badly and "covets" the Notre Dame job.

Funny enough, you have the "leading" candidates saying "I'm not going there" and you have two guys...Phil Fulmer and Butch Davis saying they want the job (for Butch, it is his wife starting up the PR machine...either for a raise at UNC or something)...

Does ND have a hiring committee or are they winging this?

This is the kind of shit they needed to avoid, really...

 

[padman59]

The Bielema hoax was hilarious. I got a good chuckle when it made it to ESPN.com. It seems as though most (if not all) of the rumors have been people throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.

I'm not sure what to make of the silence surrounding the coaching search though. Five years ago, it seemed like the old AD faxed the media his list of candidates, and everyone knew what was happening behind the scenes. Hopefully, Swarbrick is playing his cards close to the chest, and he has a clear list of candidates in mind.

 

[FirstTimer]

Funny enough, you have the "leading" candidates saying "I'm not going there" and you have two guys...Phil Fulmer and Butch Davis saying they want the job (for Butch, it is his wife starting up the PR machine...either for a raise at UNC or something)...

Does ND have a hiring committee or are they winging this?

This is the kind of shit they needed to avoid, really...

No one really knows. Swabrick isn't saying a heck of a lot. There are rumors of him working with a "search firm" to get input there are also report talking about him talking to NFL coaches and former college AD's, coaches, etc about what to look for.

I agree they need to avoid it but TBH this shit coming out isn't really their fault. Swarbrick hasn't said much of anything and all these reports flying around are just unsubstantiated rumors that ND has little or nothing to do with and even less power to stop. I mean we see from the stuff I posted above it's pretty easy to start a rumor.

I'd love to see ND hire a guy soon and end all this but I also don't want them to rush it.

Fullmer, Davis, and Edsall are all interesting possibilities.

 

[FirstTimer]

The Bielema hoax was hilarious. I got a good chuckle when it made it to ESPN.com. It seems as though most (if not all) of the rumors have been people throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.

I'm not sure what to make of the silence surrounding the coaching search though. Five years ago, it seemed like the old AD faxed the media his list of candidates, and everyone knew what was happening behind the scenes. Hopefully, Swarbrick is playing his cards close to the chest, and he has a clear list of candidates in mind.

Agreed. I mean part of it is frustrating not knowing what is going on but at the same time I respect the way Swarbrick is playing this whole thing out. Sure it gives rise to rumors but the people being contacted and doing the contacting know the real scoop of what is going on and I guess in the end that's all that is important.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

No one really knows. Swabrick isn't saying a heck of a lot. There are rumors of him working with a "search firm" to get input there are also report talking about him talking to NFL coaches and former college AD's, coaches, etc about what to look for.

I agree they need to avoid it but TBH this shit coming out isn't really their fault. Swarbrick hasn't said much of anything and all these reports flying around are just unsubstantiated rumors that ND has little or nothing to do with and even less power to stop. I mean we see from the stuff I posted above it's pretty easy to start a rumor.

I'd love to see ND hire a guy soon and end all this but I also don't want them to rush it.

Fullmer, Davis, and Edsall are all interesting possibilities.

I ask, because there are a few really solid hiring firms out there for collegiate head coaching, and if they didn't go in one of those directions...they are fools.