Whitlock tears up Iverson

[Whatupdoe44]

At one point Philadelphia had 3 #1 overall draft picks on the roster at the same time ( Iverson, Webber, Derrick Coleman).

lmao @ saying webber was good when with philly, same with derrick coleman, how old was he with iverson...97???

Webber was on one leg his whole stint in philly

 

[Senser81]

At one point Philadelphia had 3 #1 overall draft picks on the roster at the same time ( Iverson, Webber, Derrick Coleman).

Sorry, I have to pile on here due to the sheer idiocy of your comment. LOL at including Iverson among the #1 overall picks...so, did Iverson play with Iverson? Should we say that Michael Jordan should have accomplished more while on the 1985-86 Bulls because the team had Orlando Woolridge, Dave Corzine...AND MICHAEL JORDAN??!!

Your post makes Whitlock's article appear 'intellectual'.

You suck.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

He wasnt put into a fizzling situation. The team was absolutely fine before the trade. Some of this is Iverson's ego, the other half is the fact that his style really did not fit with the Pistons, and he didnt care to try to make it work. Which lead to the ego problems.

Im sure theres no bias in thinking it wasnt a fizzling situation post-trade. The team was completely different pre-trade. Anytime you make a move like that, theres some serious changes being made in the organization. Players are getting old, declining, contracts are needing to come off the books, and its time for Detroit to go forward with some of their younger guys. AI cant help Michael Curry learn how to coach, and its impossible to say if the team was "fine" pre-trade because it was made like 5 games into the season, cant really get a feel for the team in 5 games.

 

[Bear Pand]

Jason Whitlock is one of the worst writers in america, he is right there behind jamele hill. All he talks about is race, and to me that is freakin retarded.

This. Whitlock is a fucking idiot. Somehow he managed to bring up race and hip hop music AGAIN when it has absolutely 0 to do with this situation.

As for Iverson, Chris Webber said it best:

“Allen Iverson needs five robots to play with him,” said Detroit native Webber, noting the Sixers’ run to the 2001 NBA Finals happened when Iverson “had five guys who couldn’t score — Aaron McKie, (Dikembe) Mutombo, (Eric) Snow (are) all defensive players.”

Iverson is a great player but you ask this dude to do something like accept a role and his ego won't allow it. No matter how you slice it up, or who is to blame, he acted bitchmade in Detroit and theres a reason he's about to be on his fourth team. Iverson needs to be in a situation where he can just do his thing while everyone stands around and watches, ask him to play team ball and everything falls apart.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

You say it like playing on 4 teams in 13 seasons is even a knock... most of those coming with the Sixers. In todays NBA thats not even bad.

 

[Sportsbuck]

AI, the best quarterback to ever come out of Virginia.

 

[Herm]

Sorry, I have to pile on here due to the sheer idiocy of your comment. LOL at including Iverson among the #1 overall picks...so, did Iverson play with Iverson? Should we say that Michael Jordan should have accomplished more while on the 1985-86 Bulls because the team had Orlando Woolridge, Dave Corzine...AND MICHAEL JORDAN??!!

Your post makes Whitlock's article appear 'intellectual'.

You suck.

You're a clown Senser, Iverson played with two other players who were considered the best player coming out of college the years they came into the NBA.

Orlando Woolridge and and Dave Corzine werent number 1 picks so your counter argument is terrible. Go find someone like MrBill to try to flame with your tirades.

 

[Herm]

Give me a break. Emty stats? He's won an MVP award, 4 scoring titles and carried a team of bums to the NBA Finals on his back. Year in and year out he took a lottery team and Philly and made them contenders.

My thing about empty stats was besides the finals year, he usually got his assload of points and the team had nothing to show for it.

As for Iverson, Chris Webber said it best:



Iverson is a great player but you ask this dude to do something like accept a role and his ego won't allow it. No matter how you slice it up, or who is to blame, he acted bitchmade in Detroit and theres a reason he's about to be on his fourth team. Iverson needs to be in a situation where he can just do his thing while everyone stands around and watches, ask him to play team ball and everything falls apart.

that just happened

 

[Senser81]

You're a clown Senser, Iverson played with two other players who were considered the best player coming out of college the years they came into the NBA.

Orlando Woolridge and and Dave Corzine werent number 1 picks so your counter argument is terrible. Go find someone like MrBill to try to flame with your tirades.

Hey shit for brains, my point was that you included Iverson as one of the 3 #1 overall picks, and the discussion was about Iverson's supporting cast. So, should we penalize Iverson for not accomplishing more with his team, because his team had 3 #1 overall picks on their roster...INCLUDING IVERSON?

I thought that was made perfectly clear in my original posting...the statement "LOL at including Iverson among the #1 overall picks...so, did Iverson play with Iverson?" is unambiguous. There is no other possible way to interpret my comment.

 

[FirstTimer]

You're a clown Senser, Iverson played with two other players who were considered the best player coming out of college the years they came into the NBA.

Nearly a decade earlier and when they were actually effective. You have no idea what you are talking about. Webber adn Coleman were marginal NBA players when AI had them. STFU with your stupid bullshit.

 

[Herm]

Huh? Didn't Webber come in in 04, and Coleman went to Detroit in 04? and Coleman scored 15 PPG one season for Philly and 10 PPG for him another season. Obviously you would have to bring up the #1 overall draft pick stat because to bring up his actual season numbers it would have much less of an impact. In 03 Coleman only even played 30 games, what a great fucking help that is.

EDIT: the Sixers had 3 #1 overall draft picks: Iverson, Coleman, and Glenn Robinson. Webber came in after. And those three don't really make up an excellent team.

Good catch, it was Big Dog and his 16ppg on that 03-04 team with Coleman and AI.

Webber averaged 15ppg on the 04-05 team with AI.

 

[bucky]

I disagree witha major argument of Whitlocks though concerning AI's Philly days. They brought him in to be a scorer. They wanted him to pour in points. To hold that against him and compare him to Thomas, who was a true point guard and was supposed to run the team and distribute to other legit NBA guys is off base.

He then brings up how AI never developed a McHale Pippen, etc. Well who did Philly ever give him? I agree with Iverson being selfish now I just disagree with Whitlock's analysis of Iverson's Philly days.

I'm going to try and look up a list of players AI had in Philly. I could be wrong, but I remember him running good coaches and some good players out of town because of his attitude and playing style. I don't remember specific names off the top of my head, so I could be wrong about this.

 

[bucky]

2) As much as I hated Iverson, he put in 110% effort every time on the court. I remember when he single-handedly led the East All-Stars to a win over the West All-Stars. He did it by working his butt off during an All-Star game. Iverson was one of the smallest players in the NBA, and he took a beating every game, scoring most of his points on drives to the basket.

Oh, I think he gave good effort during games. Were he lacked was trying to make his team and teammates better. He was definitely a very selfish player and I think that hurt his teams and his career. He's the last guy I would pick as a "team leader" in the locker room or during practice. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, are we talking about PRACTICE.

 

[bucky]

[/B]


Good catch, it was Big Dog and his 16ppg on that 03-04 team with Coleman and AI.

Webber averaged 15ppg on the 04-05 team with AI.

AI didn't seem to be able to exist with other scorers. Watching "Big Dog" in Milwaukee, scoring was the ONLY thing he COULD do. He was useless on defense, and useless as a passer. I think it's AI's style of play that lessened the effectiveness of his team-mates.

Sidney Moncrief was a 20 point per game scorer. For part of his career he actually played point guard. And yet, Moncrief did make the guys around him better. He practiced as hard as he played the game. Was unselfish, and could coexist with other very good BB-ball players.

Moncrief was not as physically talented as AI, but I would take Sydney way before taking a guy like AI.

 

[ralaw]

AI never really played with anyone of any real significance, but IIRC the only player that he had issues with was Stackhouse. The rumors were that AI and Stackhouse didn’t get along and actually got into an altercation in practice causing the team to make a decision on AI or Stackhouse. AI has never really “ran” anyone out of Philly. The issue was that the players the team drafted t o surround Iverson where too young and not ready at the time to be major contributors (see Larry Hughes and Tim Thomas). The front office during AI’s time was pretty bad and didn’t know how to surround AI with players. The players around AI were pretty bad, as for the most part the top picks there before him (Shawn Bradley, Sharon Wright) where busts and the best player Stackhouse didn’t get along with Iverson (both high scoring but high volume/low efficient scorers). After AI the team became respectable, but the drafting was still poor and the team acquired veterans who were past their prime.

As I mentioned before I am not a fan of AI's playing style, but have people seen the rosters he's been on? If it wasn't for a really weak eastern conference that NBA Finals team had no business being there.

 

[FirstTimer]

AI never really played with anyone of any real significance, but IIRC the only player that he had issues with was Stackhouse. The rumors were that AI and Stackhouse didn’t get along and actually got into an altercation in practice causing the team to make a decision on AI or Stackhouse. AI has never really “ran” anyone out of Philly. The issue was that the players the team drafted t o surround Iverson where too young and not ready at the time to be major contributors (see Larry Hughes and Tim Thomas). The front office during AI’s time was pretty bad and didn’t know how to surround AI with players. The players around AI were pretty bad, as for the most part the top picks there before him (Shawn Bradley, Sharon Wright) where busts and the best player Stackhouse didn’t get along with Iverson (both high scoring but high volume/low efficient scorers). After AI the team became respectable, but the drafting was still poor and the team acquired veterans who were past their prime.

As I mentioned before I am not a fan of AI's playing style, but have people seen the rosters he's been on? If it wasn't for a really weak eastern conference that NBA Finals team had no business being there.

Excellent post concerning AI and Stackhouse. Sure AI was a pain in the ass but Stackhouse in his younger days didn't exactly have the best rep. I still remember him running his mouth about beating MJ 1 on 1 at UNC just before Jordans first comeback as if he was saying J was past his prime or Stack was better and could handle him.

MJ went out and dropped 30+ on him consistantly after that.

AI and Stack were just bad personalities/playing styles to co-exist with. Part of the blame falls on each of them but blame also has to go to the 76ers front office. You already had Stack, a scorer, and you bring in AI a year later who is a shoot first PG and put him in the same backcourt as Stack and expect things to run smoothly?

The 76ers never made any real attempts to bring in guys to surrund AI and compliment him. They made some moves to bring in "names" who were well past their prime but that really didn't mean much.

 

[bucky]

You already had Stack, a scorer, and you bring in AI a year later who is a shoot first PG and put him in the same backcourt as Stack and expect things to run smoothly?

On one hand you blame the FO for Philly's failure and somewhat excuse AI because of his style of play. So isn't it AI's selfish, me first, high volume, low efficient, style of play that doesn't allow him to coexist with other good players?

The 76ers never made any real attempts to bring in guys to surrund AI and compliment him.

So what kind of player compliments a selfish, me first, high volume, low efficient, point guard?

 

[FirstTimer]

On one hand you blame the FO for Philly's failure and somewhat excuse AI because of his style of play. So isn't it AI's selfish, me first, high volume, low efficient, style of play that doesn't allow him to coexist with other good players?

Your timeline is reversed. Stack was in Philly BEFORE AI got there. It's not as though AI was there and bitter because they brought in Stack to steal his thunder. If anything it was the other way around.m Stack was there. Was "the man" then AI was drafted and was brought in to be a scorer as well. Philly had no idea how to make a cohesive team unless it was AI and 11 bums.

So what kind of player compliments a selfish, me first, high volume, low efficient, point guard?

If Ai was so me first he would have requested a trade out of Philly long before it went south, You don't think AI knew the players around him most of his seasons were trash? Come on now.

 

[bucky]

Your timeline is reversed.

My time line isn't reversed. I know Stack was in Philly before AI. It's my opinion that AI's style of play made it difficult to have both of them coexist on the same team. AI's style of play takes his team mates out of their games (and this is as a point guard).

Philly had no idea how to make a cohesive team unless it was AI and 11 bums.

Which is my point. AI's style of play makes it difficult to create a cohesive team, unless AI is surrounded by 11 bums. Not what I want in my superstar.

If Ai was so me first he would have requested a trade out of Philly long before it went south, You don't think AI knew the players around him most of his seasons were trash? Come on now.

Again, that's the point. AI's style of play is selfish. It is a me first style. Being surrounded by a trash is right up his alley. That ensures that he IS the center of the team. Why would he ask to be traded from that. It's exactly what he wants. It's ideal for him.

 

[FirstTimer]

My time line isn't reversed. I know Stack was in Philly before AI. It's my opinion that AI's style of play made it difficult to have both of them coexist on the same team.

Stackhouses play contributes the same effect. Why do you think Detroit shipped him out and repalced him with Rip Hamilton? Stack and AI have very similar offensive games early in their careers and in many ways a similar attitude. To blame AI alone for Stack being traded by Philly is a big leap. There is plenty of blame to go around to all three spots.

AI's style of play takes his team mates out of their games (and this is as a point guard).

Philly KNEW THIS when they drafted him. AI was a scoring guard in college. What did they think they were getting? Again that's why I point to the ineptness of the 76ers front office. AI averaged 25ppg before he came to the NBA. He was always a shoot first guy and a scorer. Philly HAD to have known this and if they didn't see forseeable issues with Stack and AI playing together in the same backcourt I would question their sanity.

Which is my point. AI's style of play makes it difficult to create a cohesive team, unless AI is surrounded by 11 bums.

We don't know that. AI was on the downside of his career when the 76ers shipped him out. Who knows how he would have responded to actual complimentar players in his prime? Philyl never made a move to bring in true complimentary players for AI. It was either scorers that they tried to make swallow the bitter pill of being #2 now or washed up #1 and #2's who were past their prime and couldn't do anything.

Philly just never cared to find pieces and bring them in. They scraped together some marginal players from around the NBA, threw AI in the mix and hoped to make the playoffs.

Again, that's the point. AI's style of play is selfish. It is a me first style. Being surrounded by a trash is right up his alley. That ensures that he IS the center of the team. Why would he ask to be traded from that. It's exactly what he wants. It's ideal for him.

BS. Iverson always wanted to win. He'd do everything in his power to win. I remember for years people bashing against the GM of Philly for not making any moves and even tension between AI and King because King was content to stand pat with guys like Eric Snow.