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You get the exact same deals and pre-order bonuses through our store front as you do from Amazon so please bookmark this link and use it when you are shopping at Amazon.com - [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/"][COLOR="#0000FF"][U]VSN Amazon Store[/U][/COLOR][/URL] Here are some direct links to pre-order the major upcoming titles- [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9WK2"]PlayStation 4 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVBPRUO"]PlayStation 4 Gold Wireless Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9X9W"]PlayStation 4 DualShock 4 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA3S2"]PlayStation 4 Camera[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DCBDNW6"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J128FPA"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVC4"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GG4BBUM"]MLB 14: The Show[/URL] - May 6th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39KS"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BI83EVU"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHTQ"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574EW"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39HQ"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9ZZ4"]Drive Club[/URL] - September 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUSY"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9S6E"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00C27SCC2"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5YU"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA0SU"]inFAMOUS Second Son Limited Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FYIXMHQ"]inFAMOUS Second Son Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK1IG"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00B0JALUE"]PlayStation 3 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00AEX81SG"]PlayStation 3 250GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAIE"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY30"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2ZW"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2P2"]Red Faction Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESXSA"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV98"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J6DLPLK"]Drakengard 3[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGHUS58"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHZ0"]Watch Dogs Collectors Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHK0"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHP28Y"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQTFI"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBTCQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HNYWFMC"]Far Cry Compilation [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSIA"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFPZO"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92MU"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP3S"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFCC"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHPK"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD52"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2AK"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2FK"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUUC0"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZYA"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2O4"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox One[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTVUA"]Xbox One Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00MCLFZ1Y"]Xbox One Console Madden 15 Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IIHU44E"]Xbox One Console Titanfall Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVPFGD8"]Titanfall Limited Edition Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUSS"]Xbox One Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDQCK"]Xbox One Stereo Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDOS6"]Xbox One Stereo Headset Adapter[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OB8S"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUCE"]KINECT Sports: Rivals[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVA6"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15h [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESTZW"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39L2"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CX8VY4S"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQI0E"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574CO"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH2HKU"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39EO"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUNO"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAS7E"]Zoo Tycoon[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9SLE"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CYNTHA0"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DB9JYFY"]Titanfall[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSX86"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5WC"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2MQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox 360[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FATRKOK"]Xbox 360 250GB Holiday Value Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ9ESEE"]Xbox 360 250GB Console w/Halo 4, Darksiders II, Tomb Raider and Batman: Arkham City[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B003ZSP0WW"]Xbox 360 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC9SWWE"]Titanfall[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSWZU"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OBB0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY7G"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2G6"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESY6G"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV7K"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGD6LMG"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHNC"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHL4"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHY7LC"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQQUQ"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBVZQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAT3W"]Fable Anniversary[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSJ4"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFQ2Q"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92EI"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP2Y"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFA4"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHTQ"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD6Q"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD26Y"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD27I"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUXLS"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZPE"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2RQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Wii U[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAM0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 22nd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESQKU"]The Amazing Spider-man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7G2W8"]Mario Kart 8[/URL] - May 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH1LJ8"]Transformers Rise of the Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7O77A"]Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOAX34"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL]
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Worst Show Never to be Cancelled

Who's changing definitions now? Sorry, but we aren't talking marketing up in this bitch. We're talking ratings and "quality". If I want to talk marketing I'll bust out the article on the Verizon guy who finally lost his job after 9 years of say listening to "Can you hear me now"...all while being queer.

You talked up the NBC comedies, and now you respond with a cop out post like that throwing your fellow cronies under the bus as not being able to understand the importance of quality because they were duped by "marketing." Which is it? NBC comedies are quality? Or no one is watching because they don't know quality because they were duped by marketing. Personally, I'm losing faith in your ability to tell me how to STFU.

Seriously man, you need to relax. You're the angriest person I've ever met regarding this topic that isn't a fanboy of a particular TV show. His point is fairly simple, you're just stretching it to fit your own position (surprise there). He's saying that ratings as they are only truly useful to TV shows in order to determine the shows marketability. Higher ratings means more advertising revenue, simple as that. Now, higher ratings might make the show more marketable, but neither high ratings nor marketability are ways to determine the artistic (for lack of a better, broader word in this sense) quality of a program. It's just like how just because Mike Vick's jersey sold better than any other QB in the NFL last year doesn't mean he's the best QB in the NFL. Or as Houston mentioned, Lady Gaga isn't the best musical personality. It's not a tough distinction to make, yet you seem hell bent on jamming this square peg through a round hole, and insulting us all in the process because we're trying to make you aware of the fact that the peg is square and the hole is round.

Now, proceed with some lame insult about me going to school to perform surgeries on cats.
 
It's not a tough distinction to make, yet you seem hell bent on jamming this square peg through a round hole, and insulting us all in the process because we're trying to make you aware of the fact that the peg is square and the hole is round.
or am I.

I do think, however, that there would be a high level of quality, if marketed correctly, for a show to appeal to all ages and endear them to the process of......performing surgery on cats. Deep in the psyche of everyone there seems to be a quality of helping animals in need, even if it were some odd and crazy Beast. Surely many people would find quality in this and you could probably score more viewers than NBC comedies.
 
You talked up the NBC comedies, and now you respond with a cop out post like that throwing your fellow cronies under the bus as not being able to understand the importance of quality because they were duped by "marketing." Which is it? NBC comedies are quality? Or no one is watching because they don't know quality because they were duped by marketing. Personally, I'm losing faith in your ability to tell me how to STFU.

No one's telling you to shut up, I'm just asking you to use your inside voice.

Not all NBC comedies are quality. I'm not going to re-state my earlier post. Stop being lazy.

What more do you want me to say? Good content isn't driven by ratings. People working on-set don't consider your "hidden psychology" while working hard to make the best television program they know how. Sometimes it works, often times it doesn't. That's life.

The shows that are "stickiest" typically derive from a producer/manager simply looking for something that sells. They're drawn up in executive boardrooms where "stickiness" reigns supreme. All of reality TV begins in a boardroom.

However, most written episodic programming begins with a writer's brain and a pen/laptop. Pilots are created and content is king. Whether or not said content is "quality" depends on the talent involved.

Just like record sales shouldn't be viewed as a qualitative indicator, Nielsen ratings shouldn't either. Yes, taste is subjective, but we as humans have built up basic parameters for judging content. Your inability to comprehend that is beyond asinine and your half-wit responses have all but proven it.

Let's give a real-world example for good measure:


My mother doesn't care much about music. She doesn't make any attempts to see what exists in the vast and near-endless pantheon of records that have been and will be created. This is fine.

To that end, my mother only listens to music on the radio in the car because of it's ease of accessibility. It's right in front of her and all she has to do is turn the car on. No extra process of finding the correct station (and she has Sirius/XM to boot!), no research in her off time finding records/discs she will thoroughly enjoy, nothing. It's simple, easy, and stupid.

This isn't to say she's a bad person for not having acquired a taste for music, she just simply doesn't.

And that's where the record labels come in. They pay tons of money to produce artists and albums with the broadest appeal possible in order to make the most money possible. Because the majority of people are like my mother, occupied by other things (like raising my sister and I) in life to afford themselves the luxury of frequently researching music, the majority of people only want art at arms length. Labels pay these huge sums largely for distribution and marketing purposes in order to create a normative of quality that is often lower than expected. After all, it's exponentially more difficult, time-consuming, and financially burdensome to actually create something of artistic value in the face of enormous profits (this is, of course, before piracy).

The same applies to film and television. Last year, The Twilight Saga: Eclipse grossed a little over $300 million at the box office. In comparison, Black Swan grossed $106 million. Does that mean Eclipse has a better constructed story with characters more developed and engaging than Black Swan? Does that mean that the cinematography, direction, and overall aesthetic was received as well as Black Swan? Clearly not.

In much the same way American Idol's 21 million viewers says nothing about it's overall quality as a production over Parks & Recreation and it's measly 5 million viewers.
 
Why are we wasting time with this dope? He has taken what was originally nothing more than a fun parody thread (of the "Best Shows To Get Cancelled" thread), and turned it into some ultra serious breakdown of neilson ratings (and how they somehow equate to quality, which nobody agrees with for obvious reasons). To make matters worse, he comes in with the personal attacks, accentuated with his "i'm smarter than anyone else in the room" attitude due to his supposed "connections" (that he only refers to cryptically), which again, really have no bearing on the discussion.

Lots of old ladies and housewives watched "Beauty & The Beast", so it must have been high quality television. Psychological and shit.
 
Everybody needs to step back, read a conversation, and formulate their own opinions. F16 is spot on in all his arguments. Ratings do matter! Obviously a show with a higher rating will last longer on the air because it's getting ratings! How can you guys not see this?

Ratings also depict popularity, even better than sources such as IMDb or Rotten Tomatoes. Anything that lets a user base provide an opinion will have more people venting (or in this case, giving a bad review) than people logging on to say how great it was. 99% of the people surveyed in the "ratings" are watching the said show for entertainment. The mean rating will reflect some kind of discrepancy week to week, but there are people that are hired to relate ratings from week to week to determine how much an audience likes a show. Obviously, you all were not following the Jay Leno/Conan O'Brien debacle closely.

Lay off F16. Everybody is claiming that he made stupid points, but not once did he bring up any of the points that he was accused of. Just because everybody is hopping on him for expressing his viewpoints doesn't mean you have to, too. Think for yourself for once.

This is one of the most pompous, arrogant, self delusional posts I've ever seen in the history of MM/VSN. And imagine the ground that covers.

Yeah, spare us the deep psychological breakdown on the quality of highly rated programming such as Two and a Half Men, Jersey Shore, and Bones. Shucks, our simple minds couldn't handle it anyhow! Guffaw, guffaw.

This is a very ironic post. First, you accuse F16 of being pompous, arrogant and self-delusional. After that, you proceed to say in another post (and even imply in this one!) that people who watch popular shows don't matter compared to what you think is "quality."
 
Everybody needs to step back, read a conversation, and formulate their own opinions. F16 is spot on in all his arguments. Ratings do matter! Obviously a show with a higher rating will last longer on the air because it's getting ratings! How can you guys not see this?

Who is saying otherwise?

Did you really read the entire thread, and miss the theme of the debate?
 
Everybody needs to step back, read a conversation, and formulate their own opinions. F16 is spot on in all his arguments. Ratings do matter! Obviously a show with a higher rating will last longer on the air because it's getting ratings! How can you guys not see this?

Ratings also depict popularity, even better than sources such as IMDb or Rotten Tomatoes. Anything that lets a user base provide an opinion will have more people venting (or in this case, giving a bad review) than people logging on to say how great it was. 99% of the people surveyed in the "ratings" are watching the said show for entertainment. The mean rating will reflect some kind of discrepancy week to week, but there are people that are hired to relate ratings from week to week to determine how much an audience likes a show.

:lolwut:

Are you and f16 cut from the same dense mold? Did you read the title of the thread?

We're talking about awful shows that never got cancelled. Of course ratings depict the popularity of a show. However, they don't reveal ease of access and lack of quality.

You two should start a thread where you only speak in "herp derp".

EDIT: I should make it clear I'm not angry with you, but it's silly for you to come in and comment when it's clear you haven't kept up with the discussion. f16harm has been stating that Nielsen ratings accurately detail the "quality" of a program's content, when clearly it does not.
 
EDIT: I should make it clear I'm not angry with you, but it's silly for you to come in and comment when it's clear you haven't kept up with the discussion. f16harm has been stating that Nielsen ratings accurately detail the "quality" of a program's content, when clearly it does not.
you haven't provided a cracker's worth of food in Auschwitz yet to the contrary, other than stating the contrary from personal belief.

At least my OPINION on the subject is backed by numbers for God sake.






still can't believe no one got it yet in post #82....did it need more puns?
 
No one's telling you to shut up, I'm just asking you to use your inside voice.

Not all NBC comedies are quality. I'm not going to re-state my earlier post. Stop being lazy.

What more do you want me to say? Good content isn't driven by ratings. People working on-set don't consider your "hidden psychology" while working hard to make the best television program they know how. Sometimes it works, often times it doesn't. That's life.

The shows that are "stickiest" typically derive from a producer/manager simply looking for something that sells. They're drawn up in executive boardrooms where "stickiness" reigns supreme. All of reality TV begins in a boardroom.

But these are the same execs that lose sleep over ratings. Why would they lose sleep?

However, most written episodic programming begins with a writer's brain and a pen/laptop. Pilots are created and content is king. Whether or not said content is "quality" depends on the talent involved.

Just like record sales shouldn't be viewed as a qualitative indicator, Nielsen ratings shouldn't either. Yes, taste is subjective, but we as humans have built up basic parameters for judging content. Your inability to comprehend that is beyond asinine and your half-wit responses have all but proven it.

Let's give a real-world example for good measure:


My mother doesn't care much about music. She doesn't make any attempts to see what exists in the vast and near-endless pantheon of records that have been and will be created. This is fine.

To that end, my mother only listens to music on the radio in the car because of it's ease of accessibility. It's right in front of her and all she has to do is turn the car on. No extra process of finding the correct station (and she has Sirius/XM to boot!), no research in her off time finding records/discs she will thoroughly enjoy, nothing. It's simple, easy, and stupid.

This isn't to say she's a bad person for not having acquired a taste for music, she just simply doesn't.

And that's where the record labels come in. They pay tons of money to produce artists and albums with the broadest appeal possible in order to make the most money possible. Because the majority of people are like my mother, occupied by other things (like raising my sister and I) in life to afford themselves the luxury of frequently researching music, the majority of people only want art at arms length. Labels pay these huge sums largely for distribution and marketing purposes in order to create a normative of quality that is often lower than expected. After all, it's exponentially more difficult, time-consuming, and financially burdensome to actually create something of artistic value in the face of enormous profits (this is, of course, before piracy).

The same applies to film and television. Last year, The Twilight Saga: Eclipse grossed a little over $300 million at the box office. In comparison, Black Swan grossed $106 million. Does that mean Eclipse has a better constructed story with characters more developed and engaging than Black Swan? Does that mean that the cinematography, direction, and overall aesthetic was received as well as Black Swan? Clearly not.

In much the same way American Idol's 21 million viewers says nothing about it's overall quality as a production over Parks & Recreation and it's measly 5 million viewers.

Yes, the music and Twilight are complete shit in our opinions. The Black Swan is complete shit to anybody that can't comprehend what's going on (i.e. Twilight fans) and the Black Keys (a band I assume you like) are complete shit to pop music fans (i.e. Lady Gaga fans). Once again, it's all subjective from case to case. The only way to measure how much people like your shit in an instant is to receive ratings that depict how many people are listening/watching your piece.

Marketing, while it has to do with ratings somewhat, did not keep "That 80s Show" afloat, and lack of marketing doesn't detract from Seinfield's ratings. Good shows will generally get good ratings, bad shows will generally get bad ratings. Sorry that there weren't many people interested in shows that were cancelled at some point, but that's why shows can be brought back. For example, during Family Guy's first run, everybody thought that show SUCKED. It wasn't until the die hards spread the word and the DVD got the ratings (RATINGS!?) it needed to be put back on the air.

The public opinion is highly reflected in the Nielson ratings. Don't be blind to that because all of your cronies disagree with F16.
 
Who is saying otherwise?

Did you really read the entire thread, and miss the theme of the debate?

I read the thread, but you changed F16 saying that ratings reflect popularity and quality into F16 saying that ratings are the only reflection of popularity and quality (while discrediting that ratings can provide reflection whatsoever).

you haven't provided a cracker's worth of food in Auschwitz yet to the contrary, other than stating the contrary from personal belief.

At least my OPINION on the subject is backed by numbers for God sake.






still can't believe no one got it yet in post #82....did it need more puns?

I must have missed the pun or had no idea what you were talking about in that post. Went back and yep, still missing the joke.
 
But these are the same execs that lose sleep over ratings. Why would they lose sleep?
Because their whole role as execs is to create the lowest quality show that gets the highest number of viewers and demo....come on man, you think these schmucks know more than the guy on VSN who has taken some classes at school?

Don't use logic, just learn to VSN (a.k.a act like a know-it-all douchebag and have your e-buddies help you out by piling on the other person like Jenna Haze at a cock devouring contest)
 
still can't believe no one got it yet in post #82....did it need more puns?[/color]

I got it. I also gained an understanding of why you think NBC comedies suck. It wasn't funny.

As for my evidence, I just gave you a bevy of it. Contrary to popular belief, the numbers do sometimes lie.
 
I got it. I also gained an understanding of why you think NBC comedies suck. It wasn't funny.

As for my evidence, I just gave you a bevy of it. Contrary to popular belief, the numbers do sometimes lie.
The fact you brainiacs are still trying to come up with interesting ways to prove to me that I should give a shit, CLEARLY (see what I did there) shows you didn't get it.
 
Everybody needs to step back, read a conversation, and formulate their own opinions. F16 is spot on in all his arguments. Ratings do matter! Obviously a show with a higher rating will last longer on the air because it's getting ratings! How can you guys not see this?

Ratings also depict popularity, even better than sources such as IMDb or Rotten Tomatoes. Anything that lets a user base provide an opinion will have more people venting (or in this case, giving a bad review) than people logging on to say how great it was. 99% of the people surveyed in the "ratings" are watching the said show for entertainment. The mean rating will reflect some kind of discrepancy week to week, but there are people that are hired to relate ratings from week to week to determine how much an audience likes a show. Obviously, you all were not following the Jay Leno/Conan O'Brien debacle closely.

Lay off F16. Everybody is claiming that he made stupid points, but not once did he bring up any of the points that he was accused of. Just because everybody is hopping on him for expressing his viewpoints doesn't mean you have to, too. Think for yourself for once.



This is a very ironic post. First, you accuse F16 of being pompous, arrogant and self-delusional. After that, you proceed to say in another post (and even imply in this one!) that people who watch popular shows don't matter compared to what you think is "quality."

:henrypalm:
 
Because their whole roll as execs is to create the lowest quality show that gets the highest number of viewers and demo....come on man, you think these schmucks know more than the guy on VSN who has taken some classes at school?

...

And no, I haven't only taken classes. But I "won't mention specifics here" other than that I worked for someone who has made quite a few high-grossing films (some of them, quite shitty) and is currently guest-starring on one of those "NBC comedies that suck".
 
...

And no, I haven't only taken classes. But I "won't mention specifics here" other than that I worked for someone who has made quite a few high-grossing films (some of them, quite shitty) and is currently guest-starring on one of those "NBC comedies that suck".

will-ferrell.jpg
 
The public opinion is highly reflected in the Nielson ratings. Don't be blind to that because all of your cronies disagree with F16.

And I will exit this inane argument with a question.

Since when is the "public opinion" a testament to quality? All it indicates are profits and what sells, which is what executives have been pushing on us for some time. Without getting all "J.Hen", what do you think social conditioning comes from?

Is banning gay marriage the best opinion because a majority believes in it?

You tell me to start thinking for myself whilst spouting facts about popular opinion. You're in the fucking herd and you don't even recognize it, but that's okay, because most don't.
 
...

And no, I haven't only taken classes. But I "won't mention specifics here" other than that I worked for someone who has made quite a few high-grossing films (some of them, quite shitty) and is currently guest-starring on one of those "NBC comedies that suck".
good catch before the ninja edit. But you are still missing my point here. I don't know how else to put it. I don't think I can create another post that looks like it is trying to fit into the conversation at hand, but includes every ridiculous arguing point, even a pun back to the Beauty and the Beast posts by Larry.

However, Wheel of Fortune just started here on the East Coast. I'm going to go watch that...because it's ratings are great for a nightly game show, and I think it still has quality after all of these years. (how was that attempt? See post #14)
 
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