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Watching Rocky, because it's 4:40am, and why the fuck not?Comment
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Watched Rocky II & Rocky III.
They should have stopped at Rocky II. Easy for me to say, not my millions. However, the tone of the movies & the Rocky character completely changes in III.
For starters, Rocky goes from a lovable dumb oaf, to a master of witty barbs & sarcasm. This guy goes from slurring out corny eye roll inducing jokes to slaying everybody around him with the kind of slick wit that would make Jim from The Office blush.
In Rocky II, Rocky is embarrassed when he's kicked off of a commercial set because he can't read the cue cards. He also buys a house he clearly can't afford because he's too stupid to know the difference. In Rocky III, he is portrayed as a master pitch man (including a montage of his endorsement deals), and also shown to be a shrewd business man.
He's also clearly on the juice. He's already a washed up club fighter in Rocky, and he's 31 years old with a bad eye in Rocky II. In both movies, he's clearly in good shape, but his upper body is thick but soft. In Rocky III, he's ripped to shreds and so lean that he probably isn't even a heavyweight anymore.
Rocky III & IV have some memorable moments & quotes, but the heart was gone and the characters become parodies (especially Mickey in III). Forget Rocky V, which is total shit. I like Rocky Balboa, that came close to matching the feel of the first two.Comment
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I actually agree with you, Warner.
Rocky is a legitimate, all-time classic American film.
My minor disagreement with you though, most of the heart that made Rocky go, is gone in II. We know why Rocky II was around, it was the realization that this character from Rocky has the potential to be a franchise...so they hotshotted the title on him. Similarly in the way, say...Nightmare on Elm Street 3 was the realization that it was a franchise and a direction changer or Friday the 13th II. Those are your equivalents to Rocky II. Good movies, but you know why you're there, and they are a changeup from the original films.
III and IV are full on 80's camp, but camp done the right way. Its not poorly done like its winking at you the whole way or laughing at itself, its just taking this story and taking the cheeky concepts from the first two films and really blowing them up. I really dig them as habit-watchers and still find enjoyment in passing by them on a Sunday morning and staying there. If you pass by Rocky IV when channel surfing and "Hearts on Fire" hasn't played yet, its your duty to sit there, watch it, and wait for it.
V is an abomination. It was trying to be campy, but campy like its trying to not just emulate its core concept, but trying to be the late 80's teen angst film, too. Really bad stuff.
Rocky Balboa is the proper ending to the series. Tonally, more in-line with I with the proper sendoff to the character.Comment
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*sigh*
Tried for a 3rd time and still can't finish The Big Sleep.
Film noir. Bogart. Bacall. Howard Hawks directing. William Faulkner and Leigh Brackett(The Empire Strikes Back) writing. Movie should be great but it's incredibly boring.Comment
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Rust and Bone - Marion Cotillard doin what Marion Cotillard do best.Comment
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Good stuff, true mostly. Only thing I'd change is that Rocky III would be the equivalent to A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and Friday the 13th Part II (possibly part III, when they went 3D) because that was the movie where the franchise completely changed direction. Even if Rocky II lacked the heart of the original it was still in the same vein, a continuation of the same story similar in style to the original. Rocky III, like Elm Street 3, was a complete self-parody.Comment
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I disagree, simply because I see Rocky II as the re-start of the franchise. To get to III, IV, and V, you need to hot shot Rocky to the title and all of the campyness from II is expounded on in the next few films. In Rocky II, Rocky is parody dumb and excessive. Its the shit we laugh at in the rest of the Rocky films...its all there in 2.
A side note...I don't see Nightmare 3 as a self-parody. 4, 5, and 6...definitely. 3 is a re-start, skipping the shit of 2, continuing the story of the original. Its campy, yeah, but not where its making fun of itself. That occurs later, for sure though.Comment
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For me Rocky II still had the same heart & feel as Rocky. Yes, it was a cash grab but the fundamental theme remained. III & IV is where is drifted off course into super campy nonsense for me.
The biggest thing for me is that Rocky is a good at heart borderline retard in the first two movies, but magically saw an IQ bump of about 50 points for III & IV. Plus his newfound ability as an improv comic. I mean, in Rocky & II, he's blowing the punchlines to 3rd grade level knock knock jokes, and by III & IV he's practically auditioning for The Groundlings. It's hard to look past. He's essentially a different character in those two movies, and then reverts back to Forrest Gump for V & Balboa.
If i'm recommending Rocky to somebody new, i'm telling them to watch Rocky, II, & Balboa, in that order. Then watch III & IV for shits & giggles. Pretend V didn't exists.Last edited by Warner2BruceTD; 07-12-2013, 06:26 PM.Comment
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Here's the other core problem with III & IV.
In Rocky & II, he's never better than Apollo. In the first fight, Rocky is all heart and pushed Apollo to the limit, but Apollo wins the split decision. The second fight, Apollo has him beat going into the final round, but his obsession with decisively knocking Rocky out (note-Apollo, please have a chat with Georges St Pierre) cost him the fight. Rocky is just a club fighter with the heart of 1,000 men, nothing more.
All of a sudden in III, he's a polished champion, running off a long win streak. Mickey sorta explains this by saying he set him up with cans, and Clubber Lang alludes to this as well, but still. It all seems so forced.
I will say this this...Rocky Balboa, Apollo Creed, Clubber Lang, Ivan Drago, Tommy Gunn, Union Cane, Mason "The Line" Dixon...these movies had some kick ass names for these fighters.
EDIT - Rocky also defeated men named Spider Rico and BIG YANK BALL according to the known fight record on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Balboa
SPIDER RICO
And Larry, you'll appreciate this one. He also defeated Joe Green in Korakuen Hall. Yes, Rocky apparently defended the WBA, WBC, & Ring championships of the world in a 2,000 seat building in Tokyo.Last edited by Warner2BruceTD; 07-12-2013, 05:57 PM.Comment
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Spider Rico is who he beat in his first match in Rocky.
LMFAO @ Korakuen Hall. Rocky will fight anyone anywhere anytime!
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Also, FWIW, Rocky was never a polished fighter. Like you mentioned...Mickey set up cans for him to fight. He lost the first time he fought a real fighter (Lang) after the second Creed fight. He won the second Lang fight because he busted out that heart of 1,000 men. Same with Drago...clearly a lesser fighter, but a better man.Comment
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I don't see Rocky II as campy. Some parts are laughable, sure, but not campy, especially when compared to III & IV which is why I lean more toward III being where the franchise took a major detour.
Same for Nightmare 3. The first two parts, for better or worse, were straight horror flicks. 3, whether self-parody or not, was much more dark comedy, also marking a drastic shift in tone for an already established series.Comment
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The last 30 mins of Kill Bill are lifted straight from this movie. The lighting, club, music, dancing, the final duel in the snow. Everything.
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It's like Alex from A Clockwork Orange ran into Principal Clark from Lean On Me. The idea of Poitier being bothered by "tough" white kids from London is comedy in itself. Also the friendly racist jokes thrown around by his colleague had me
Good in a unintentional way.Comment
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Hey Houston, did you ever watch Breathless?Comment
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