MLB network's Top 9 Second Basemen Ever

[FedEx227]

Warner kinda said the same thing I said, that bastard.

It's not really "new" stats, but the fact that he had little to no power, very few doubles. He was a great defensive singles hitting 2B. Is that all-time great? I don't know. He did everything he had to do, played the position almost exactly how it was taught to be played in those days.

Even then, as an all-time great you'd like for him to have been...better. If that makes any sense.

[FirstTimer]

Nellie Fox despite being a White Sox legend isn't really great.

.288/.348/.363, 93 OPS+, 44 WAR. Even his 5-year peaks aren't that great.

The issue comes up with the fact that he wasn't really bad. He got a lot of hits, tons of hits, played great defense and basically did everything a 2B was suppose to do in the time he played.

However in the context of all-time 2B he doesn't really stand out at all.

That's why I was suprised Sandberg wasn't higher. He could hit for average, power, had speed, was a tremendous defender. Clearly the best second basement of his era and what he did well would have translated relative to any era. I guess he had a couple clunker seasons at the start and end of his career but at his peak could pretty much do it all relative to whatever you wanted at 2B in any era. I'd have a tough time putting him any lower than 6th.

[Warner2BruceTD]

After the top 8, you have the following group:

Grich
Biggio
Gordon
Kent
Fox
Whitaker

Chase Utley?

[FedEx227]

A lot depends on how you grade a position all time.

Do you grade off what you're suppose to do at the position or the best players that happen to play at that position.

I mean if we're talking about the top SS in baseball over the past five years Hanley Ramirez would likely be up there. The problem is he doesn't really play SS well at all. He's a great hitter who just happens to be playing SS.

It's tough to judge really, especially defensive-heavy positions like 2B.

[FedEx227]

After the top 8, you have the following group:

Grich
Biggio
Gordon
Kent
Fox
Whitaker

Chase Utley?

I'd absolutely put Utley in that category. Doesn't have the longevity but has some stellar offensive numbers for a 2B.

.290/.377/.505, 27 HR, 101 RBI, 127 OPS+, 42.3 WAR in only 9 seasons.

His key will be getting back to that 125-135 OPS+ range again in his career. If he tails off, he'll be seen as a flash in the pan (5-6 year peak).

[FirstTimer]

After the top 8, you have the following group:

Grich
Biggio
Gordon
Kent
Fox
Whitaker

Chase Utley?

Utley to me is basically a better fielding version of Kent without the longevity at this point. (kent became a worse fielder as his career wore on and his awful metrics are weighted down by that. We haven't seen Utley's decline on defense at those ages..if it happens) Utley peak is/was pretty damn good for those few seasons but I'd have a tough time putting him in the Top 9/10 ahead of Kent, Biggio, Whitaker, Gordon.

[Senser81]

Nellie Fox despite being a White Sox legend isn't really great.

.288/.348/.363, 93 OPS+, 44 WAR. Even his 5-year peaks aren't that great.

The issue comes up with the fact that he wasn't really bad. He got a lot of hits, tons of hits, played great defense and basically did everything a 2B was suppose to do in the time he played.

However in the context of all-time 2B he doesn't really stand out at all.

[Warner2BruceTD]

The Phillies really had some late bloomers on this recent team.

Utley didn't break out until about 27, we all know about Howard coming up late, and even Victorino didn't get 600 PA's until he was 27.

[FedEx227]

And that's why they are now in a bad spot. They had their peaks all around the same time which was awesome for their offense but now they've locked a lot of them up beyond that peak.

[FirstTimer]

And that's why they are now in a bad spot. They had their peaks all around the same time which was awesome for their offense but now they've locked a lot of them up beyond that peak.

You mean they were unwise to let Jayson Werth walk away?

[Senser81]

No Jackie Robinson? Racist much?

[Warner2BruceTD]

Off topic here, but I noticed this while looking at the Phillies....

Surprising to see that out of 12 seasons, Jimmy Rollins has only had five seasons of above average OPS. And four of them were 101, 101, 102, 103.

I think he's a good example of a guy who the OPS+ number doesn't really treat fairly, because when he does get on base, he's pretty productive. Led the league in triples four times, great base stealer (373 SB, only 78 CS), good power for a SS, around 40 doubles per year, etc.

[Warner2BruceTD]

No Jackie Robinson? Racist much?

Actually it's pretty shocking he's not shoehorned onto the list somehow. Probably because he only had four full seasons at 2B.

[Senser81]

Actually it's pretty shocking he's not shoehorned onto the list somehow. Probably because he only had four full seasons at 2B.

Only four full seasons...but last I checked he was so awesome that every team in the MLB retired his number. Even teams that weren't in existence when Robinson played.

Who was more overrated? Willie Randolph or Steve Sax?

[FedEx227]