Pinning it all on Favre is ridiculous

[MrBill]

OK, but stop acting like the 1 year Packers dynasty was all Brett Favre. It wasn't. He had more than enough star players on that team and while they may not have had the longevity as stars to qualify for the HOF, they were good enough at the time to be considered elite or close to it. That was an extremely talented team and the great Favre was only able to squeeze one championship out of it.

Who said that? He had another HoF player on the team and a good supporting cast. That has been the point all along. It takes more than one HoF player on a team to advance deeply into the playoffs and win a Superbowl.

While Favre did only win 1 Superbowl with the Packers, they did win the most games in the NFL of any team during his 17 years as starter so he must have been doing something right.

[MrBill]

Oh I would LOVE to hear this list of several Patriots who are making the hall of fame from the Patriots three Super Bowl rings.

I'm calling you out on your bluff.

Here are the guys that I project will be HoF inductees from the Patriots Superbowl appearances. A couple of them might not get in but will be on the short list of nominees.

Bill Belichick
Tom Brady
Adam Vinatieri
Richard Seymour
Tedy Bruschi
Rodney Harrison
Ty Law
Randy Moss

[killgod]

Here are the guys that I project will be HoF inductees from the Patriots Superbowl appearances. A couple of them might not get in but will be on the short list of nominees.

Bill Belichick
Tom Brady
Adam Vinatieri
Richard Seymour
Tedy Bruschi
Rodney Harrison
Ty Law
Randy Moss

Bruschi won't and Moss didn't win any titles with us, he earned the HoF nomination before he even got to NE.

Harrison made his due in SD and I don't even think he gets in either. There's not many safetys in the Hall and he's not as good as Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins who are locks for this generation.

There's only 4 locks on that list as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be surprised if only them got in. (Brady, BB, Vinatieri and Law)

[MrBill]

Bruschi won't and Moss didn't win any titles with us, he earned the HoF nomination before he even got to NE.

Harrison made his due in SD and I don't even think he gets in either. There's not many safetys in the Hall and he's not as good as Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins who are locks for this generation.

There's only 4 locks on that list as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be surprised if only them got in. (Brady, BB, Vinatieri and Law)

I think Bruschi might just make it. There is more to his legacy as a player than just stats. Harrison was the first safety (and only?) to be in the 30/30 club (sacks/interceptions) so I think that at least draws him serious consideration. Regardless of whether or not Moss won a title with the Patriots, they would not have even been in the Superbowl that year if not for his record breaking performance that season.

So for the Patriots "glory years" you have 4 locks on your list and the other 3 guys can have a strong argument made for them and will at least make the short list of nominees.

The Packers over a 17 year period had Brett Favre and Reggie White (for 6 season).

You can take any dominant team that has won multiple Superbowls and point to at least 2 or more HoF players. The Packers had 2 for their 2 Superbowl appearances in the 90's.

[Senser81]

Bruschi won't and Moss didn't win any titles with us, he earned the HoF nomination before he even got to NE.

Harrison made his due in SD and I don't even think he gets in either. There's not many safetys in the Hall and he's not as good as Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins who are locks for this generation.

There's only 4 locks on that list as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be surprised if only them got in. (Brady, BB, Vinatieri and Law)

I highly doubt Vinatieri gets in...he's been a below-average kicker IMO for the last several years. I think he could have made Canton had he continued to be even a smidge above-average, but now it seems like he misses all his big kicks.

On-topic, I think when you compare Brady & Favre to other all-time great QBs, they've probably had the worst offensive talent around them (relatively speaking). If you look at all the QBs in the HOF, nearly all of them have played with a few HOF offensive players in their lifetime. Even Brady has Moss. Sure, Javon Walker, Ahman Green, and Donald Driver were fine players, but they weren't Raymond Berry, Lenny Moore, and John Mackey.

[Len B]

Zero % chance Bruschi gets in. Harrison probably won't get in either, and Moss wasn't around for the Superbowls.

I'm hoping Seymour and Law get in, but we'll see.

[Palooza]

It's Favre's fault.

[MrBill]

Zero % chance Bruschi gets in. Harrison probably won't get in either, and Moss wasn't around for the Superbowls.

I'm hoping Seymour and Law get in, but we'll see.

[Palooza]

I think he meant the ones they were actually able to win.

[Rayman]

No one is arguing Troy Aikman is the best QB of all-time, so I'm not sure how his supporting cast matters here. Let's not bring up random QB's just so we can say make random points.

He's doing that for me.

Every argument I make gets a Cowboys-aimed rebuttal.

BTW, I don't see Law, Seymour and Vinatieri as sure-fire HOFs. They surely won't get inducted after the "5 year window" is up.

[MrBill]

He's doing that for me.

Every argument I make gets a Cowboys-aimed rebuttal.

BTW, I don't see Law, Seymour and Vinatieri as sure-fire HOFs. They surely won't get inducted after the "5 year window" is up.

I've NEVER said that Favre was the greatest of all time at QB (I have him at #3), The reason I brought up the Cowboys was that they had multiple HoF players to call on in critical situations during their Superbowl run. Pretty much like you agree that the Patriots have 4 or more from their run.

The Steelers had 10 (or more)
The Cowboys had 4 (or more)
The Patriots had 4 (or more)
The 49ers had 4 (or more)
The Packers had 2 and one of them didn't play in the last decade that Favre was with the team.

[Rayman]

I've NEVER said that Favre was the greatest of all time at QB (I have him at #3), The reason I brought up the Cowboys was that they had multiple HoF players to call on in critical situations during their Superbowl run. Pretty much like you agree that the Patriots have 4 or more from their run.

The Steelers had 10 (or more)
The Cowboys had 4 (or more)
The Patriots had 4 (or more)
The 49ers had 4 (or more)
The Packers had 2 and one of them didn't play in the last decade that Favre was with the team.

The Cowboys had 3.

Larry Allen wasn't drafted until 1994 and he certainly wasn't a HOF caliber player by his 2nd year in the league.

[MrBill]

The Cowboys had 3.

Larry Allen wasn't drafted until 1994 and he certainly wasn't a HOF caliber player by his 2nd year in the league.

I was referring to Charles Haley, who has made the final list a few years in a row now and will get in eventually. The man was a beast on defense and pretty much shut down his side of the line. He has 5 frigging rings...lol

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jimmy Johnson get in as a coach either one of these days.

[Rayman]

I was referring to Charles Haley, who has made the final list a few years in a row now and will get in eventually. The man was a beast on defense and pretty much shut down his side of the line. He has 5 frigging rings...lol

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jimmy Johnson get in as a coach either one of these days.

Jimmy's not getting in for 5 years of work.

Writers' vendetta against Haley for the way he treated them while he was playing will keep him out for a long time. I'll be shocked if he makes it within the next 10 years.

[Senser81]

Jimmy's not getting in for 5 years of work.

Writers' vendetta against Haley for the way he treated them while he was playing will keep him out for a long time. I'll be shocked if he makes it within the next 10 years.

Honest question. Do you think Haley was better than Richard Dent? Dent is up for the HOF again this year, and it seems like every year their is a logjam of "pass rush specialists" that keep Dent out (Fred Dean, Derrick Thomas, etc.)