soooo..moss to vikings.......v jax to new england?

[Woy]

Name 10 guys who you think is better.

Randy Moss
Tai Streets
Sterling Sharpe
Chris Sanders
Wayne Cherbet
Troy Brown
Az-Zahir Hakim
Brian Finneran
Marcus Robinson
Eddie Kennison

[Aso]

This is also coming from a forum board who by majority said Miles Austin isn't a top 10 receiver.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

How are Jacksons hands better than the guy who catches passes with his shoulder and bicep ?


Moss is on the decline. He definitely has lost a step. He certaintly will regret his poor work ethic in the coming years. His "will" is no longer the important thing as his body will not respond the way it used to.
That said physically he was that much better than everyone else it will take him awhile to completely come back down to earth. Hes got one elite season left and IMO you dont trade that unless you think your chances are slim to win a championship.

Jackson is not Moss. Jackson isnt a bad pickup by any means but the exchange is worrisome.

[Tailback U]

Your ENTIRE argument is based solely on stats. You could never have watched the NFL a day in your life and make the same argument. Using stats as a way to show is better is completely asinine. From the '08 and '09 seasons Jackson is better than Moss.

No, my entire argument is based on game performance, consistency, and highlight reels. Randy Moss has been dominating defensive backs for 10 years.

I like how you act like Moss' down years (05-07) have nothing to do with him in Oakland. And even then, he had 1000 yards and 8 TDs in 05 with Kerry Collins, similar to Jackson's career year with Phillip Rivers.

I bet next year you'll be saying Malcolm Floyd and Brandon Lloyd are better than Larry Fitzerald.

I still don't get how Jackson is "easily better" than Moss, or why the hell you think he's a team player who works hard. Jackson is as selfish and as much of a prick as any WR in the league.

[Esjay]

Ten receivers better than Vincent Jackson in the NFL today? Ok.

1. Randy Moss.
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Santonio Holmes
6. Sidney Rice
7. Miles Austin
8. Wes Welker
9. Roddy White
10. Brandon Marshall
11. Reggie Wayne

A lot of other guys that I could argue are just as good if not better. You can't name 5 wide receivers in the history of football better than Moss. Just look at what happens to the QB's he plays with.

Culpepper: had one of the best seasons of any QB ever with Randy as a wideout, did jack shit afterwards.
Had some alright seasons in Oakland, not very good compared to his Minnesota years sure. He was however catching passes from the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter.
As soon as he gets to New England, who also added other important pieces don't get me wrong, they go 16-0 and are pretty much the most dominant offense ever. Breaks the receiving td's record. Brady had never thrown more than what 28 td's in a single year? Almost completely because of Moss.

Vincent Jackson will NEVER ever strike that much fear or influence another teams strategy that much. Ever. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind.

[NAHSTE]

Name 10 guys who you think is better.

Okay, without even thinking, here is 11:

Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Steve Smith
Randy Moss
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin
Greg Jennings
Chad Ochocinco
Miles Austin
Larry Fitzgerald

[citizenerased]

Ten receivers better than Vincent Jackson in the NFL today? Ok.

1. Randy Moss.
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Santonio Holmes
6. Sidney Rice
7. Miles Austin
8. Wes Welker
9. Roddy White
10. Brandon Marshall
11. Reggie Wayne

A lot of other guys that I could argue are just as good if not better. You can't name 5 wide receivers in the history of football better than Moss. Just look at what happens to the QB's he plays with.

Culpepper: had one of the best seasons of any QB ever with Randy as a wideout, did jack shit afterwards.
Had some alright seasons in Oakland, not very good compared to his Minnesota years sure. He was however catching passes from the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter.
As soon as he gets to New England, who also added other important pieces don't get me wrong, they go 16-0 and are pretty much the most dominant offense ever. Breaks the receiving td's record. Brady had never thrown more than what 28 td's in a single year? Almost completely because of Moss.

Vincent Jackson will NEVER ever strike that much fear or influence another teams strategy that much. Ever. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind.

Todd Bouman had 8 touchdowns and 790 yards in three starts with Randy Moss.



Todd fuckin' Bouman.

[Aso]

No, my entire argument is based on game performance, consistency, and highlight reels. Randy Moss has been dominating defensive backs for 10 years.

I like how you act like Moss' down years (05-07) have nothing to do with him in Oakland. And even then, he had 1000 yards and 8 TDs in 05 with Kerry Collins, similar to Jackson's career year with Phillip Rivers.

I bet next year you'll be saying Malcolm Floyd and Brandon Lloyd are better than Larry Fitzerald.

I still don't get how Jackson is "easily better" than Moss, or why the hell you think he's a team player who works hard. Jackson is as selfish and as much of a prick as any WR in the league.

Moss must be good if '07 was one of his down years. I think it's hilarious how you say your argument is based off of consistency when you are talking about Randy Moss, someone who consistently takes plays off and you base this off of highlight reels, fucking highlight reels.

Exactly Moss, actually in THE PRIME of his career didn't have amazing stats under Norv Turner. This when he was coming right off of PRIME seasons.

I never said anything about how hard he works or how selfish he is. I've never seem him work and I don't know him personally. Not something I can judge.

Ten receivers better than Vincent Jackson in the NFL today? Ok.

1. Randy Moss.
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Santonio Holmes
6. Sidney Rice
7. Miles Austin
8. Wes Welker
9. Roddy White
10. Brandon Marshall
11. Reggie Wayne

A lot of other guys that I could argue are just as good if not better. You can't name 5 wide receivers in the history of football better than Moss. Just look at what happens to the QB's he plays with.

Culpepper: had one of the best seasons of any QB ever with Randy as a wideout, did jack shit afterwards.
Had some alright seasons in Oakland, not very good compared to his Minnesota years sure. He was however catching passes from the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter.
As soon as he gets to New England, who also added other important pieces don't get me wrong, they go 16-0 and are pretty much the most dominant offense ever. Breaks the receiving td's record. Brady had never thrown more than what 28 td's in a single year? Almost completely because of Moss.

Vincent Jackson will NEVER ever strike that much fear or influence another teams strategy that much. Ever. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind.

I'm not comparing careers I'm comparing the last two seasons. So your argument is pretty much all irrelevant. Moss in '03 and '04 was better than Vincent Jackson is right now. You are indeed correct in saying that. Jackson will never be as good as Moss was in '03 and '04.

http://vsndaily.com/showthread.php?t=59275

Look at that thread, so much of VSN saying how Austin isn't among the leagues best because he had just one good season.

If you use the same logic there is no way you can put Santonio Holmes or Sidney Rice on your list. Also anyone who thinks Moss is THE best receiver in the league is ridiculous. Best career yes, best right now... No way.

You are just naming people to name people though. Having Moss no. 1 ahead of Andre Johnson among others. Santonio Holmes #5? ... The fuck?

Okay, without even thinking, here is 11:

Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Steve Smith
Randy Moss
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin
Greg Jennings
Chad Ochocinco
Miles Austin
Larry Fitzgerald

Chad Ochocinco has lost a step and would not put him top 10 and I'd would take V-Jax higher than some of those guys like Greg Jennings, Roddy White, and Anquan Boldin. I also don't think Marshall has played as well as he's showed he's capable of but I would still put Marshall ahead of V-Jax.

Todd Bouman had 8 touchdowns and 790 yards in three starts with Randy Moss.



Todd fuckin' Bouman.

In 2003? I'm talking about 2008-2010 in my argument for who is better NOW

[citizenerased]

2008-2010?

You mean the period where Moss has more catches (161 to 127), more yards (2411 to 2265) and more touchdowns (27 to 16)

[Warner2BruceTD]

If you think Vincent Jackson is better than Anquan Boldin or Roddy White, you either don't watch football, or you have no fucking clue.


This thread is amazing. What the hell has Vincent Jackson ever done? Forget Moss, that's just laughable, stupid, and not even worthy of debate. But to even call him better than Boldin is beyond retarded.

[Esjay]

I wasn't placing the receivers in order of how good a player they are. I only numbered to make sure I had at least 10, as you said.

Btw, Santonio Holmes as the 5th best receiver isn't that far of a stretch. He's certainly a lot closer to it than Jackson.

[Tailback U]

Moss must be good if '07 was one of his down years. I think it's hilarious how you say your argument is based off of consistency when you are talking about Randy Moss, someone who consistently takes plays off and you base this off of highlight reels, fucking highlight reels.

I meant 2005-2006 and 2006-2007, obviously.

Consistency = Being near the top of the league in every statistical category year in and year out. Which Moss has done in every season that he's played a full season in.

Exactly Moss, actually in THE PRIME of his career didn't have amazing stats under Norv Turner. This when he was coming right off of PRIME seasons.

lol...Because Norv Turner has lit up defenses everywhere he has gone. Has nothing to do with Turner or the age of Moss and everything to do with Art Shell, Kerry Collins, and the shittyness of the Raiders.

You don't understand the difference that Moss makes when he is on the field.

Vincent Jackson is a damn good receiver because of his size and speed, but he doesn't come close to Moss in terms of understanding defenses, setting up cornerbacks and safeties, body control, ball adjustment, and making circus like catches the likes of which nobody has ever seen before.

Some of Randy just last season:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yFP9ZKBzZc&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x0leGgnvM0[/ame]

See Randy abuse the young, speedy Vontae Davis:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jed_lf_5ieI[/ame]

2 seasons ago:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7st-xEfDZo&feature=related[/ame]

I mean really, what makes you think that 3 games into this season he is so much worse than last season?

[NAHSTE]

I find it hilarious that Moss's numbers in the season that Aso is trying to knock him for are actually better than Vincent Jackson's career highs.

[Fox1994]

Pass Attempts: Chargers 519, Patriots 592

So the Patriots threw the ball 73 more times and Moss has 15 more catches? Yes, I must say bravo. The catches stat right there definitely shows Moss is better. You got me, bro.

Who is Vincent Jackson competing with for balls? I know Moss had to compete with Wes Welker. Who else is getting thrown to in San Diego besides Antonio Gates? I honestly don't know, I'm not just saying this to prove a point.

Besides the fact that Moss had better players on his team, he also routinely draws double-teams. He's one of the best in the league, dude. There's no debating it. He's better than Jackson. Jackson is good because of Rivers, but Brady never threw for more than 28 TDs without Moss... He hasn't thrown for less with him (not to say Brady isn't an amazing quarterback - he is).

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, it just doesn't seem an informed one or one with much factual basis.

[Aso]

Who is Vincent Jackson competing with for balls? I know Moss had to compete with Wes Welker. Who else is getting thrown to in San Diego besides Antonio Gates? I honestly don't know, I'm not just saying this to prove a point.

Besides the fact that Moss had better players on his team, he also routinely draws double-teams. He's one of the best in the league, dude. There's no debating it. He's better than Jackson. Jackson is good because of Rivers, but Brady never threw for more than 28 TDs without Moss... He hasn't thrown for less with him (not to say Brady isn't an amazing quarterback - he is).

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, it just doesn't seem an informed one or one with much factual basis.

Jackson caught 21.4% of Rivers completions, while Moss caught 22.3% of Brady's. Why is that 0.9% such a big showing in how much better Moss supposedly is? He caught slightly amount more of his completions. I have also used plenty of factual information. If factual information in this discussion is merely stats then this is a retarded discussion to be having.