Eli Manning...

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not even arguing with you to change your mind because I know that's not going to happen. If you don't like Eli because you don't like the way he plays QB then just say it.

My god. You are the dirt worst.

I don't think a second ring should push him through to the HOF. How many times do i have to say it? Never said I didn't like him, never said he can't be a HOF'er. I've defended him on this board more than most. I just don't like this idea that he won another ring, so that's it, forget everything else, he's in the HOF now. Too simplistic.

[Tailback U]

I'd say this is the first year Eli was (statistically at least) a top 5 QB in the league.

This is all about legacy/HOF style talk.

As far as week to week, NOW talk, there are few guys I'd rather have as my teams QB. I'll take that every day.

I'd agree that Eli is a top 5-6 QB. The guys ahead of him?

Brady - HOF
Peyton - HOF
Brees - HOF
Rodgers - Potential HOF?
Big Ben - Potential HOF?
Rivers (arguable)

I don't think he's as good as the top 4 listed here but those guys are all headed to the hall of fame most likely.

No shame in being behind those guys. It shouldn't discredit what Eli has done.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Anyway, this is drifting from my original point, and i'm being put in a position to bash the player when I really was only trying to bash the concept of over valuing what happens in the Super Bowl without the benefit of context.

I'm bowing out. Worship the rings. You guys win.

[Tailback U]

My god. You are the dirt worst.

I don't think a second ring should push him through to the HOF. How many times do i have to say it? Never said I didn't like him, never said he can't be a HOF'er. I've defended him on this board more than most. I just don't like this idea that he won another ring, so that's it, forget everything else, he's in the HOF now. Too simplistic.

Whatever man. Like I've been saying, when it is all said and done he will give you the stats, wins, rings, and his heart and soul to try and make your beloved HOF list but because he looks like a retarded kid with down syndrome you still won't put him on it.

[Tailback U]

Anyway, this is drifting from my original point, and i'm being put in a position to bash the player when I really was only trying to bash the concept of over valuing what happens in the Super Bowl without the benefit of context.

I'm bowing out. Worship the rings. You guys win.

lol I think we're arguing the same point.

I'm saying his lack of statistical dominance shouldn't negate him from HOF potential. You're saying his Super Bowl rings shouldn't automatically make him a HOF potential.

That's all there is to it, from here we just see how it plays out. I'm just saying he has the potential and is on pace.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Make a convincing argument for Eli's HOF candidacy without using the words "Super Bowl" or "rings".

I bet you can't. Because you would need phrases like "he led the league in this x amount of times", or "he was the best at this", or "he was an elite level player at his position for x amount of time", etc, to do that and it's hard to apply those phrases to Eli Manning.

To me, unless a guy has legendary Super Bowl performances (plural) you should be able to craft a credible HOF argument for a player without even talking about the Super Bowl. You can't do that with Eli, his entire legacy is based on the result of two games, in which he was pretty good, but not even dominant!

That's what I find ridiculous about QB assessment, but it's never going to change.

[Houston]

I'd agree that Eli is a top 5-6 QB. The guys ahead of him?

Brady - HOF
Peyton - HOF
Brees - HOF
Rodgers - Potential HOF?
Big Ben - Potential HOF?
Rivers (arguable)

I don't think he's as good as the top 4 listed here but those guys are all headed to the hall of fame most likely.

No shame in being behind those guys. It shouldn't discredit what Eli has done.

Exactly. Don't Rodgers, Brees, and Brady hold almost all of the regular season passing records? I wouldn't hold it against him that he's not hanging with guys who are having some of the best statistical seasons ever. Especially when as you said, they're on their way to the Hall of Fame themselves.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Exactly. Don't Rodgers, Brees, and Brady hold almost all of the regular season passing records? I wouldn't hold it against him that he's not hanging with guys who are having some of the best statistical seasons ever. Especially when as you said, they're on their way to the Hall of Fame themselves.

What is more impressive, Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR's in 1927 when the third highest total was 18, or Mark McGwire hitting 70 in 1998 while Sammy Sosa hits 66, Ken Griffey hits 56, and Greg Vaughn hits 50?

Yes, Eli is putting up big numbers, but in a big number era, and he's still behind the top dogs.

Can you guess who he is in this analogy?

Context.

[Primetime]

What is more impressive, Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR's in 1927 when the third highest total was 18, or Mark McGwire hitting 70 in 1998 while Sammy Sosa hits 66, Ken Griffey hits 56, and Greg Vaughn hits 50?

Yes, Eli is putting up big numbers, but in a big number era, and he's still behind the top dogs.

Can you guess who he is in this analogy?

Context.

[Houston]

What is more impressive, Babe Ruth hitting 60 HR's in 1927 when the third highest total was 18, or Mark McGwire hitting 70 in 1998 while Sammy Sosa hits 66, Ken Griffey hits 56, and Greg Vaughn hits 50?

Yes, Eli is putting up big numbers, but in a big number era, and he's still behind the top dogs.

Can you guess who he is in this analogy?

It depends on what the HR's are converted to in quarterback terms. Cause if it's plays of 40+ yards, then Eli would be......Mark McGwire?

[mgoblue2290]

1. Holds the NFL record for most TDs in the 4th quarter.
2. Thats not we are saying. We are saying that you should consider him elite.
3. This year.
4. This year.
5. Yes.

Yea no big deal that he won 3 away games to win the superbowl twice.

Eli Manning was not one of the 3 best QBs in the league this year. Brady, Brees, and Rodgers all out played him. He was top 5 though.

I'm not an Eli fan, but you have to give credit where credit is due. The guy turns it up when the game is on the line. He's not a HOF lock yet though.

[RosettaStoned]

Eli is a good player, but I'd have a hard time giving him a nod to the HOF. He's at best the 5th best QB in the league, and that is this year, his best year. The guy lead the league in picks last year for fuck's sake.

[GoChargers]

Anyway, this is drifting from my original point, and i'm being put in a position to bash the player when I really was only trying to bash the concept of over valuing what happens in the Super Bowl without the benefit of context.

I'm bowing out. Worship the rings. You guys win.

Its about perspective.. In the end, Eli did enough to win the Giants the game. Tom Brady didn't. Eli threw 30/40 and didn't turn the ball over, he moved the Giants down the field and put up more points for his offense than Brady did for his offense. Brady had his chances, he got picked off and his receivers dropped passes, but it was on him to lead the offense and his turnover ended up being the difference. If Eli turns the ball over on that final drive then it's a different discussion - he wouldn't be considered HOF at the moment.

If Brady's pass is complete, Eli is still looked at the same as (by me). He brought his team from 7-7. He played a great game against Dallas in week 17 to earn the Giants a playoff spot. He again played great against the Packers, and he did enough to beat the 9ers.. I dare say he was the only quarterback to play against the 9ers this year who didn't turn the ball over while having to throw it 30+ times let alone 50+ times. And again, against the Patriots, he led the Giants down the field when it mattered most, which despite what you say isn't an easy thing to do under the amount of pressure.

Eli has been elite over the last 7 weeks and it's been enough to get the Giants a ring. If he had lost this game tonight with a poor throw or poor decision, he isn't being talked about for hall of fame. He didn't make the poor decision. I don't even remember the Pats dropping a possible interception all game (correct me if im wrong).

4 players above him are likely certainities for the HOF - Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. I don't see why he can't get in.

Regardless of weather Gronkowski comes up with the ball in the end, Eli put his team up by 4 with a minute to play. If his defense doesn't pull through, so be it - he was very very good tonight and he looked like a HOF player to me.

I would take him over any quarterback in the NFL today down by 4 with 2 minutes to play. He's not getting in because of his 2 rings, he's getting in cos he's a winner and is a QB you can rely on.

[Liquidrob]

True going 64-16 (.800 win percentage) and making two Superbowls that come down to 3-4 points (just like their three wins did) with absolutely no defense proves they are awful post Spygate.

Stick to MMA.

Since they confiscated Bill’s handicam they have gone from a dynasty to the Buffalo Bills, congrats

[leaffan]

Since they confiscated Bill’s handicam they have gone from a dynasty to the Buffalo Bills, congrats

I wish the Bills made the playoffs