Brady sucks now

[Len B]

If you think Brady is a golden child you need to stop watching First Take. Every legit NFL network and fan has spent plenty of time focusing on 7-7.

[PP]

I think Brady still gets 2 more SB's and ends up going out like Elway.

[ralaw]

How about this then. 2010-11. Manning gets ridiculed for losing to the Jets after leads a scoring drive and goes up 16-14 with 0:53 remaining. They lose because the D allows a good KR and let's Matt Sanchez drive down the field. The focal point is on Manning choking again. The very next week Brady Brady gets shut down by those same Jets and no one says a word.

How about this. 2012-13. Manning gets blasted for choking against the Ravens even though he leads a scoring drive with little time remaining and his D gives up a tying TD. He ends up throwing a terrible INT in OT. Very next week Brady's 35 ppg offense gets shut down by the same team. He also has multiple turnovers and plays poorly.

But because he won some SBs a decade ago no one really says a word about Brady's failures. Because he won early he gets the benefit of the doubt regardless of what happens in the game. Other QBs play the same game lose to the same team and they get criticized for it. It's only fair to do the same to Brady. A SB win in 2002 shouldn't dictate how we judge a game in 2012. Those games mean 0 when looking at what he's done since 05. Biggest comeback in CG history, one of the biggest upsets in SB history, game sealing interceptions, games with multiple turnovers, high scoring offenses routinely disappearing in the postseason. Brady since 05: a choker by any other name.

When a QB is labeled a winner, choker, etc it is hard to change that label. Anytime a QB fails or meets expectations the narrative will be about them. For the most part Manning is labeled a guy who is the greatest regular season QB (which is a slight against him), while Brady for the most part is labeled "clutch". Yes, these labels came from games that were won or lost several years ago. It is amazing how people allow the playoffs to dictate how they perceive a player, but people do. Look at Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. The narrative with Ryan is that "nothing that he does matters until he wins some playoff games" and the narrative for Flacco is "all the guy does is win playoffs games".

[Senser81]

How about this then. 2010-11. Manning gets ridiculed for losing to the Jets after leads a scoring drive and goes up 16-14 with 0:53 remaining. They lose because the D allows a good KR and let's Matt Sanchez drive down the field. The focal point is on Manning choking again. The very next week Brady Brady gets shut down by those same Jets and no one says a word.

How about this. 2012-13. Manning gets blasted for choking against the Ravens even though he leads a scoring drive with little time remaining and his D gives up a tying TD. He ends up throwing a terrible INT in OT. Very next week Brady's 35 ppg offense gets shut down by the same team. He also has multiple turnovers and plays poorly.

But because he won some SBs a decade ago no one really says a word about Brady's failures. Because he won early he gets the benefit of the doubt regardless of what happens in the game. Other QBs play the same game lose to the same team and they get criticized for it. It's only fair to do the same to Brady. A SB win in 2002 shouldn't dictate how we judge a game in 2012. Those games mean 0 when looking at what he's done since 05. Biggest comeback in CG history, one of the biggest upsets in SB history, game sealing interceptions, games with multiple turnovers, high scoring offenses routinely disappearing in the postseason. Brady since 05: a choker by any other name.

I think a lot of it has to do with your definition of "choking". I think the media overplays the "QB choking" angle, because its the most sensational and also the QB is the easiest target.

I wouldn't say Brady "choked" on Sunday. He didn't play well, and the wind really affected his passes. But do you think the Patriots were more talented than the Ravens? I don't. The Patriots defense sucked, too. The only play that Brady "choked" IMO was the 4th and 5 from the 20 (why did Belichick go for it?), when Brady couldn't even get the ball in the area of a receiver. He basically threw the ball away, which was the worst thing he could have done.

Same holds true for Manning. He had the game won, but the Broncos defense gave it away in regulation. In fact, the Broncos defense was terrible that game. Manning's OT INT was a bad play, but its not like Manning gave his team no chance of winning.

[killgod]

Yeah and in my post I acknowledge the run he had early. The thread title also does.

From 05-12 he's been a choker. Also, this time period essentially covers the time he's been the focal point of the team. It covers 8 years 7 of him actually playing. We're supposed to ignore that he's been choking since 05 because he did well before that?

No.

Who's ignoring it? Choking deep in the playoffs still requires regular success to get there, which you, are ignoring. Apparently losing conference title games is nothing but negative?

Who the fuck makes it that far on such a regular basis? Lets shit on Brady cause he didn't win every Super Bowl? Losing extremely close games in the Super Bowl isn't a choke job, sorry. Throwing a pick six in one to seal the game, is. Just like throwing one in the AFC title game in OT, is.


You're looking for crap to balance the score with Peyton, we get it. He's got defining plays in big moments where he FAILED. When those defining moments came for Brady, he generally SUCCEEDS. The AFC title game on the weekend was the Ravens team flat out beating the Patriots team. There was no key moment or drive where Brady had a chance to win the game and failed.

This is what you fail to comprehend. It's not just the games, it's the moments in those games where Manning and Brady have defined their criticism.

[Len B]

I think a lot of it has to do with your definition of "choking". I think the media overplays the "QB choking" angle, because its the most sensational and also the QB is the easiest target.

I wouldn't say Brady "choked" on Sunday. He didn't play well, and the wind really affected his passes. But do you think the Patriots were more talented than the Ravens? I don't. The Patriots defense sucked, too. The only play that Brady "choked" IMO was the 4th and 5 from the 20 (why did Belichick go for it?), when Brady couldn't even get the ball in the area of a receiver. He basically threw the ball away, which was the worst thing he could have done.

Same holds true for Manning. He had the game won, but the Broncos defense gave it away in regulation. In fact, the Broncos defense was terrible that game. Manning's OT INT was a bad play, but its not like Manning gave his team no chance of winning.

At the end of the day, those who have a brain know that the idea of clutch is arbitrary and know that Manning/Brady are elite QB's. When one play can change your entire legacy of 50,000 plays something is wrong.

[Len B]

I always like to compare sports to society since it's funny how it relates.

NFL terms: QB isn't clutch, he lost in the playoffs and had a bad game.

Reality: I found a burnt Cheez-It in my box of crackers. This whole box sucks. Fuck Cheez-It's, they are horrible.

[Senser81]

I always like to compare sports to society since it's funny how it relates.

NFL terms: QB isn't clutch, he lost in the playoffs and had a bad game.

Reality: I found a burnt Cheez-It in my box of crackers. This whole box sucks. Fuck Cheez-It's, they are horrible.

NFL terms: QB isn't clutch, he choked in the playoffs and had a bad game.


Reality: I ate a Cheez-It, I choked on it and almost died.

[riley420]

I'm just going to leave this here.

[Bear Pand]

At the end of the day, those who have a brain know that the idea of clutch is arbitrary and know that Manning/Brady are elite QB's. When one play can change your entire legacy of 50,000 plays something is wrong.

This is fine but you're one of the main ones ripping on Manning after he fails in the playoffs. Then when people do the same to Brady you change your mind and act like you're above doing this. Here's a recent example with some posts YOU made after the Broncos/Ravens game:

OK, so you want to break it down to one play and make it a simplistic game.

3rd and 7 -- Manning has the ball, Manning calls all the shots, he's the "best" QB in the NFL according to many, and he checks down and calls a run to a rookie RB. Denver punts, Ravens get the touchdown to end it. There's no fucking way Tom Brady is calling a run in that situation.

If you want to praise Manning for running the show and being a guru on offense, you have to penalize him when he tucks his tail between his legs and gets scared in crunch time.

Another thing is that it's a team game, so you can't rely on your defense to stop everyone every game. The defense didn't stop the Ravens, so it's now back on Manning to win the game. He didn't, and he gave his defense a horribly short field.

Can't agree with this. Tom Brady throws there every time. You know you're the best and they can't stop you, throw the ball.

Here you directly imply that Manning is a lesser QB than Brady because: Manning gets scared in the clutch, and that unlike Brady Manning doesn't know he's the best so he calls a run on 3rd and 7. All of this over one decision that while questionable isn't even in the top 10 reasons the Broncos lost that game. There you are over analyzing one play out of 50,000. Trying to twist it into some commentary on how Manning shrivels up in the crunch and how the loss is on him. To the point where you're arguing that we should disregard the defense giving up a desperation heave, because Manning got the ball in OT and it's on him to get the W. This type of behavior is completely acceptable when used on QBs like a Manning, but again when the tables are turned and we're looking at Brady it's "OMG you can't just look at one play!"

That's what this entire thread is about. You're not telling me anything I don't already know by stating that the term "clutch" is arbitrary and judging QBs off of single games, single plays is stupid. Check my post history. This thread isn't meant to be taken seriously. I'm just applying the same dumb logic people throw at the Mannings/Ryans of the world onto Brady's recent postseason history. I think it's incredibly obnoxious and hypocritical that people have 0 to say when Brady "chokes" (by their own established definition) year after year. This is especially true for Pats/Brady fans and the media who tend to ride Manning the hardest.

If Manning is a choker, if Manning is scared in the clutch, you have the say the same thing about Brady 05-12. A lot of people will say "oh but he has three rings!" Well gone are the years where he can get knocked out of the AFC CG and his team still wins. Or where he can average 216 pass yards 1 TD a game and still reel off 9 straight wins and 3 rings. Every since the Pats decided to become the New England Colts with a highpowered offense and no D Brady has done the exact same thing Manning typically does in the postseason. Give him the same label.

[ram29jackson]

I think Brady still gets 2 more SB's and ends up going out like Elway.

not unless they find another great kicker.

the fact is theyve gotten pretty close too often already. I think youll start to see more of a decline then a incline as the next few years pass.

[RosettaStoned]

The QB of my team does all of his choking in bathroom stalls.

[Senser81]

The odd thing about this is that Brady has been a much better QB the last few years than when he was winning Super Bowls. Yet his reputation is taking a hit, which makes no sense to me. As good as Brady was, and all the wins, his QB rating from 2000-2006 was about 88. From 2007 to present it's been over 105. Brady has played great, but the team overall, not as successful. Chalk one against stats.

[riley420]

Since 2009 (Mark Sanchez's rookie season), the Jets and Mark Sanchez have more playoff wins (4) than the Pats and Tom Brady (3). One of those was a game the Jets won vs. the Patsies.

LOL

Like senser just said, chalk one against stats.

[killgod]

Typical dumbass boateng bullshit.

Your point continues to be utterly retarded.

In short it's nothing more than, lets ignore the 3 titles and 2 MVPs...and now he's equal to Manning! Ta-Da! They are the same label guize!

Lets compare a whole career to another, but shave off all their top end success! BRILLIANT!


Stop throwing around your moronic definition of choking. For fuck's sake, flat out losing a game to another team in every fucking facet is not a choke on the QB or any individual player.

Choking = Being put in a critical situation and failing to perform at the level you are capable of, or failing your assignment.

Rahim Moore choked the coverage on Jones. He blew the simple zone assignment, terrible positioning and lost track of the WR. Critical situation and he failed to do the fucking basics. CHOKE.
Peyton Manning choked the OT drive by throwing a terrible INT. Like that was amateur, throwing back across his body into coverage. You're out of the damn pocket and it's 2nd friggin down. JUST THROW IT AWAY. Nope, he CHOKED this play and did something completely under his level of ability as an NFL QB. CHOKE, CHOKE FUCKING CHOKE.
Billy Cundiff. 30 some odd yard FG to tie the AFC title game, something he does and kickers do with relative ease and high success. Critical situation. He CHOKED.
Wes Welker. Twice, one in the Super Bowl, one in the AFC title game. Critical moments, dropped passes he regularly catches. He CHOKED.

Do you fucking understand yet?


John Elway - The Drive. CLUTCH.
Adam Vinatieri - SB on the line. CLUTCH.
Dwight Clark - The Catch. CLUTCH.
David Tyree's catch. CLUTCH.
Brady's drive vs the Rams. CLUTCH.

These plays were clutch. These players were in critical situations in big games and either delivered and may even had to do something incredible or beyond their norm to succeed. This is being clutch in a moment when you need to be one or the other.


Good god this shit is retarded listening to idiots thinking losing a game defines the ability to make plays in critical moments. You take these situations and see how the player performs over his career to gauge their ability in those moments. To define clutch or choke on simply winning or losing a football game, as a team? Are you a god damn handicap to think that makes any fucking sense?