Saints Defense maintained a Bounty Program

[bucky]

This is a different issue to the thread though. I'd be willing to bet W2B and pretty much anyone with any commonsense would agree with this.

You're killing me ralaw. I don't want to be trying to irritate you.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I guess the reason I've been dodging this point is because I find it hard to believe that you think money is the problem. I think the bigger issue here is that players are getting hurt, which I'm saying cannot be avoided (and you agree).

I also find it amazing that you so easily brush aside an injury that's from a player deciding to do it on their own, but when there's a side-wager, that's a big deal. So you're cool with me injuring your guys intentionally as long as money doesn't change hands?

I guess my problem is that you and others (TBU) assume that all NFL players are actively trying to injure each other.

I just heard Darren Woodson and Tedy Bruschi talking on SportsCenter about how their intent as players were to hit hard, and if an opponent was injured as a result, that was a byproduct of the game but NOT their intent as defenders. They went on to say that playing with the intent to injure is wrong, and completely unacceptable (and thus, what the Saints were doing is also wrong and unacceptable).

Yes, you will have rogue weirdos like Bart Scott and others who were quoted in this thread, but for the most part, i'll keep listening to articulate, intelligent players like Woodson and Bruschi who know the difference between hard hits and intent to injure, and know how to convey themselves without the ridiculous MURDER DEATH KILL hyperbole of TailbackU.

NFL players are not trying to injure each other. Sorry if that blows up your idealistic vision of what football is, but it's the truth.

[Houston]

INB4 Tailback U post another history lesson about ancient Sparta, and how we should still conduct ourselves like gladiators.

[EmpireWF]

I also find it amazing that you so easily brush aside an injury that's from a player deciding to do it on their own, but when there's a side-wager, that's a big deal. So you're cool with me injuring your guys intentionally as long as money doesn't change hands?

If Troy Polamalu is playing a game and hammers a receiver crossing the middle, and he gets hurt....it's part of playing in the NFL.

If Flozell Adams is playing and chop blocks a defensive lineman, he's a dirty mfer who deserves to be flagged and fined.

If Ray Lewis sees a runningback during a game limping in and out of the huddle, then proceeds to specifically target his legs with hits...it's football.

If Tony Romo is playing with a busted left hand and defenders are going for the hand, it's football. It's a weakness and will be targeted. Now if after a hit, guys are stomping on the hand or getting him in a wristlock or some shit, that should be penalized.

What changes it for me is when people around the team put specific bounties on injuring players. That's shady in its own right before you even bring up the fact it violates the CBA, skirts the salary cap and potentially opens up the league to lawsuits. Such bounties are not what football is about.

Maybe it's a fine line, but that's the line.

[Tailback U]

10 millionth time.

They are out to hurt each other and inflict pain, just like Woodson and Bruschi said.

When you play like that, with that attitude, you are going to injure someone eventually. So in essence, there is no difference, and they are actually trying to injure even if they don't want to admit it or aren't happy about it after the fact.

It's the same fucking thing as Dan Henderson throwing haymakers from hell to knock a guy out and win the fight. I'm sure Dan isn't intentionally trying to put another man in the hospital, but what else is going to happen when he lands a kill shot like that?

[DSpydr84]

I guess my problem is that you and others (TBU) assume that all NFL players are actively trying to injure each other.

I just heard Darren Woodson and Tedy Bruschi talking on SportsCenter about how their intent as players were to hit hard, and if an opponent was injured as a result, that was a byproduct of the game but NOT their intent as defenders. They went on to say that playing with the intent to injure is wrong, and completely unacceptable (and thus, what the Saints were doing is also wrong and unacceptable).

Yes, you will have rogue weirdos like Bart Scott and others who were quoted in this thread, but for the most part, i'll keep listening to articulate, intelligent players like Woodson and Bruschi who know the difference between hard hits and intent to injure, and know how to convey themselves without the ridiculous MURDER DEATH KILL hyperbole of TailbackU.

NFL players are not trying to injure each other. Sorry if that blows up your idealistic vision of what football is, but it's the truth.

Yeah, and I want to eat the foods I want but not get fat. But one things leads to another, so I control myself. Saying "I want to hit hard, but not injure anyone" is the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard.

And actually, it was Tedy Bruschi who I was referring to when I mentioned players going after injuries at the bottom of a pile. So I like his TV face.

EDIT: In fact, here he is

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/01/tedy-bruschi-says-hed-target-arian-fosters-hamstring/

[Tailback U]

If Troy Polamalu is playing a game and hammers a receiver crossing the middle, and he gets hurt....it's part of playing in the NFL.

If Flozell Adams is playing and chop blocks a defensive lineman, he's a dirty mfer who deserves to be flagged and fined.

If Ray Lewis sees a runningback during a game limping in and out of the huddle, then proceeds to specifically target his legs with hits...it's football.

If Tony Romo is playing with a busted left hand and defenders are going for the hand, it's football. It's a weakness and will be targeted. Now if after a hit, guys are stomping on the hand or getting him in a wristlock or some shit, that should be penalized.

What changes it for me is when people around the team put specific bounties on injuring players. That's shady in its own right before you even bring up the fact it violates the CBA, skirts the salary cap and potentially opens up the league to lawsuits. Such bounties are not what football is about.

Maybe it's a fine line, but that's the line.

LOl what?? If Tony Romos hand is hurt and players are targeting it is ok unless there is a bounty involved?

What world do you live in where money forms your personal beliefs on what is ok and what isn't? Your ethics are entirely based on the money aspect of all of this, it's down right retarded.

The Saints were fined for 3 hits on Favre. All were big hits that happened during a football play. None were in piles or targeting specific limbs. So why are you not ok with them?

[EmpireWF]

LOl what?? If Tony Romos hand is hurt and players are targeting it is ok unless there is a bounty involved?

What world do you live in where money forms your personal beliefs on what is ok and what isn't? Your ethics are entirely based on the money aspect of all of this, it's down right retarded.

These are grown men. If they want to step on the field and play with a blatant weakness, that's on them. You cannot fault a defender for wanting to take advantage of that. They'd be stupid not to.

[DSpydr84]

These are grown men. If they want to step on the field and play with a blatant weakness, that's on them. You cannot fault a defender for wanting to take advantage of that. They'd be stupid not to.

And if those same grown men want to throw some cash around for making the pain a little worse, they can do that too.

/thread.

[Tailback U]

These are grown men. If they want to step on the field and play with a blatant weakness, that's on them. You cannot fault a defender for wanting to take advantage of that. They'd be stupid not to.

LOL but it's not ok if they want to take advantage of an injury if they are receiving cash to do so?

Ok so if they want to go after a player with an injured limb it is totally fine to target said player's injury. UNLESS they are getting paid to do it.

Makes total sense now, thank you for clearing that up. I will no longer accept money when I am out to hurt people. I will just do it for fun so guys like you think I have great morals.

[EmpireWF]

And if those same grown men want to throw some cash around for making the pain a little worse, they can do that too.

/thread.

lol

Not if it violates the CBA and especially not when the league tells you to stop.

[Tailback U]

Here's my point.

Let's say bounties are allowed in the NFC South but not in the AFC East.

If you found that bounties significantly increase the amount of injuries compared to the AFC East then I'd say this is a huge deal and it deserves all the attention it is getting.

Fact is, though, that the Saints' bounty program showed no significant increase in injuries when compared to teams that weren't implementing a bounty program.

Does it need to be banned? Yes. Do people need to be punished? Yes. Should it be allowed? Hell no.

It's not going to significanty increase or decrease injuries by implementing them or removing them. That is the ultimate goal, right?

Bucky has a point. Why are we so caught up in the idea of a bounty program if it's not the main reason as to why players are really getting injured.

I'll tell you why - because it looks bad. That's all there is to it. People get all up in arms about this kind of stuff because they are "disgusted" by it and it's an "outrage" and blah blah blah when facts show it doesn't even change anything about the game's physical nature or injury chances.

[nwfisch]

W2BTD went all out blitz on Zone Blitz.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Here's my point.

Let's say bounties are allowed in the NFC South but not in the AFC East.

If you found that bounties significantly increase the amount of injuries compared to the AFC East then I'd say this is a huge deal and it deserves all the attention it is getting.

Fact is, though, that the Saints' bounty program showed no significant increase in injuries when compared to teams that weren't implementing a bounty program.

Does it need to be banned? Yes. Do people need to be punished? Yes. Should it be allowed? Hell no.

It's not going to significanty increase or decrease injuries by implementing them or removing them. That is the ultimate goal, right?

Bucky has a point. Why are we so caught up in the idea of a bounty program if it's not the main reason as to why players are really getting injured.

I'll tell you why - because it looks bad. That's all there is to it. People get all up in arms about this kind of stuff because they are "disgusted" by it and it's an "outrage" and blah blah blah when facts show it doesn't even change anything about the game's physical nature or injury chances.

Where are these "facts" that the Saints bounty program has not caused injuries above and beyond what would have normally occured?

[ZoneBlitz]

W2BTD went all out blitz on Zone Blitz.

Stop talking about me.