Is Jonathan Vilma the NFL "escape goat"?

[EmpireWF]

So much for Knubb's contentions...

Yahoo! obtained paperwork that was signed by Anthony Hargrove and given to the league by the NFLPA. He said Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams told him to deny the existence of the program to the league.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html;_ylt=Ap3lQFucUuS09zCB5uKNCbE5nYcB

[KNUBB]

In documents like this wording is everything.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/07/hargrove-says-williams-vitt-told-him-to-just-play-dumb/

[Warner2BruceTD]

In documents like this wording is everything.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ust-play-dumb/

LOL. That link just seals the deal more in my mind. The Saints coaches would have no reason to "coach" players on what to say if nothing was going on. Hargrove's contention that he said what he was told to say, while never admitting the program existed, is just Hargrove trying to save his own ass while passing the blame to coaches he doesn't work for anymore.

Williams said he was going to deny the existence of a bounty, and that Hargrove should deny it, too. Per Hargrove, Williams said, “Those motherf-ckers [the NFL] have been trying to get me for years,” and that, if they “stay on the same page, this will blow over.”

Hargrove admits that Williams said this to him. Why would Williams make a statement like this if nothing was going on?

It may simply be semantics, given that Williams and Vitt apparently confessed to the existence of a bounty program — which necessarily means that Hargrove had lied. But in his declaration he never says that he lied, and he never admits that the bounty program existed.

Oh, it may be semantics, Mike Florio? LOL. Florio should be ashamed of himself for writing this trash, and giving any sort of credibility to the idea that Hargrove was being coached to merely tell the truth. This is nothing more than Hargrove trying to lawyer his way out of a suspension.

At this point, you could show KNUBB video tapes of everybody involved signing notarized confessions of WE DID IT, THE BOUNTY PROGRAM EXISTED AND WE TRIED TO HURT PEOPLE FOR MONEY, and he would still find a way to spin it. "Wording is everything", only if you are desperately trying to cling to the idea that this is a massive frame job (with no motive that makes any sort of sense).

Stubborn homer is stubborn.

[leaffan]

I'm just happy Knubb isn't going through to be a lawyer because he's god awful at this.

[KNUBB]

The word bounty was never once used in the document or at all by anyone other than the NFL and the media. That "confession" could easily be twisted to say it was for a pay-for-performance program(Which is still against the rules and could still be what they were covering up).

[SethMode]

[Warner2BruceTD]

The word bounty was never once used in the document or at all by anyone other than the NFL and the media. That "confession" could easily be twisted to say it was for a pay-for-performance program(Which is still against the rules and could still be what they were covering up).

If it was a pay for performance program, the NFL would have punished them for a pay for performance program. You still have zero logical basis for the NFL framing the Saints and turning it into a bounty program. Why would Goodell willingly twist this into a far worse situation from a PR standpoint? Makes zero sense, none. Goodell is not going to flippantly use the word 'bounty' unless it was a bounty.

And if this wacky, unrealistic conspiracy theory were the case, why wouldn't the Saints coaches and Loomis come out and say, "hey look, we confessed to a pay for performance program, not a bounty program, the NFL is full of shit"? Sounds like slander to me. Why have they not lawyered up? That's rhetorical, btw.

You are grasping at straws, bro.

[nwfisch]

If it was a pay for performance program, the NFL would have punished them for a pay for performance program. You still have zero logical basis for the NFL framing the Saints and turning it into a bounty program. Why would Goodell willingly twist this into a far worse situation from a PR standpoint? Makes zero sense, none. Goodell is not going to flippantly use the word 'bounty' unless it was a bounty.

And if this wacky, unrealistic conspiracy theory were the case, why wouldn't the Saints coaches and Loomis come out and say, "hey look, we confessed to a pay for performance program, not a bounty program, the NFL is full of shit"? Sounds like slander to me. Why have they not lawyered up? That's rhetorical, btw.

You are grasping at straws, bro.

That's what I don't get.

Fans can still hang their hat on a Super Bowl title. It's not like that can be taken away from the Saints.

[Bigpapa42]

Jesus KNUBB... even on a site rife with fanboy homerism... this is high level fanboy homerism...

[KNUBB]

I can't find the evidence to back up a bounty program. I'll wait for the NFL to show it to me. There was nothing out of the ordinary on the field. Which is why it is difficult for me to believe what the media and the NFL is spoon feeding you people. You wanna know about the people who got suspended. They account for a total of 6 personal fouls over the course of the 3 year timeline this is set out to be. 4 players. Only 6 fouls. This is suppose to be guys out to hurt people. That is a fact. Something the shield has yet shown anyone. A fact or a piece of evidence.

[Juggernaut]

I can't find the evidence to back up a bounty program. I'll wait for the NFL to show it to me. There was nothing out of the ordinary on the field. Which is why it is difficult for me to believe what the media and the NFL is spoon feeding you people. You wanna know about the people who got suspended. They account for a total of 6 personal fouls over the course of the 3 year timeline this is set out to be. 4 players. Only 6 fouls. This is suppose to be guys out to hurt people. That is a fact. Something the shield has yet shown anyone. A fact or a piece of evidence.

A fact is an admission of guilt. If you plead guilty to a crime, you don't need any evidence proving you are guilty.

[EmpireWF]

I hope he's trolling.

[Rblake]

I hope he's trolling.

Or he needs to get his pipes checked for lead.

[KNUBB]

A fact is an admission of guilt. If you plead guilty to a crime, you don't need any evidence proving you are guilty.

Care to explain why they are appealing then and why many are still denying bounties?

[FirstTimer]

Care to explain why they are appealing then and why many are still denying bounties?

NFL players appeal everything. The NFLPA pushes them to do this stuff. It's more of a formality than anything. The best part of these appeals is that they aren't even appealing the fact that there was or wasn't a bounty program(because there was...everyone has admitted to it Vilma says he wants to see "evidence" ) they are appealing Goodell's power to actually suspend them in general for this long...whether it be for a bounty program or jay walking. One of the players is appealing the suspension because the bounty program existed before the new CBA. So now only has another player admitted the bounty program existed he thinks he shouldn't even be suspended for it.

Get a clue.