Is Jonathan Vilma the NFL "escape goat"?

[FirstTimer]

Goodell is a lot of things.

But he's far from stupid. He's not going to suspend these players, publicly call it a bounty program, etc unless there is lock down proof there was one.

[RosettaStoned]

I'm confused. Was the Gregg Williams speech before the 49ers playoff game not "proof" that the Saints were organizing something?

No.. targeting their #1 WR's ACL is pay for performance brah.

[Senser81]

You think I care about some list you homos have? Talk to me instead of being dicks and all condescending to me. If you can't do that then how does that make me such a bad poster?

AAAAHHHH!!!!!

[KNUBB]

at this from Vitt.

So Vitt not only accuses Hargrove of lying but Hargrove was dumb enough to implicate the Saints in the bounty program by telling people he was told to play "dumb" about it.



This logic fails for so many reasons.

Even if we want to ignore there was a bounty program..which there was...let's take a look at this.

Assuming there was no bounty program:

Vitt wouldn't have to tell Hargrove to "play dumb" about anything...because he wouldn't have to play dumb. If there was no bounty program and the NFL came sniffing around Vitt and the Saints would have nothing to worry about, let alone something to warn the players to "play dumb" about. Vitt's response to the Hargrove accusation makes zero sense because if it was a "pay for play" issue then Vitt wouldn't have to warn Hargrove to play dumb about a bounty program(which "didn't exist").

The Saints were stupid and reckless and got caught.

On top of all this the NFL told the Saints to knock it the eff off years ago, the Saitns owner told them to knock it off(what was there to knock off if it didn't exist?)...did the Saints deny the bounty program then? No, they just chose to cover it up.

I like how we have months of evidence(backed up by by independent sources), admissions of the Saints top brass shit was going yet Vitt getting in an illogical war of words with Hargrove somehow sheds light on the fact that this bounty program never existed.



Come off of it man. You're making yourself look dumb here.

Considering the pay for performance is still illegal that is something to cover up and play dumb about. This is where you seem to miss the logic. They have consistently denied bounties. It was always said to be a pay for performance program. But noooooo they are just taking whatever gets thrown at them right?

[FirstTimer]

KNUBB answer this one question:

Do you think Roger Goodell is dumb enough to come out and accuse and penalize the Saints organization and players publicly. Borderline slander/libel them with out lock down proof knowing how the appeal and litigation process works?

[FirstTimer]

Considering the pay for performance is still illegal that is something to cover up and play dumb about.

Except he wasn't told to play dumb about pay for performance. He was told to play dumb about the bounties.

Nice fail.

[ralaw]

Considering how the defense played I chalked it up as coach speak(maybe a little much for coach speak, but coach speak none the less). I'm sure I'm not the only one(Maybe on this site I am), but I am positive many took it as coach speak or locker room talk. So no it is not proof. Unless you mean to tell me that they hit Alex Smith on his chin and was totally going for Crabtree's ACL. If that is so then please provide me with some visual evidence of such because I watched the same game you did.

You are too focused on the result. While the Saints defense routinely was mediocre during Gregg Williams time (he sucks) his tactics still created a culture of recklessness. The NFL is currently being sued by thousands of former players for this type of recklessness.

[KNUBB]

Except he wasn't told to play dumb about pay for performance. He was told to play dumb about the bounties.

Nice fail.

The word bounty was never used once in Hargrove's letter.

Even better fail.

;)

[FirstTimer]

The word bounty was never used once in Hargrove's letter.

Even better fail.

;)

Do research

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html;_ylt=Ap6dmR.659OhZlPUpPfU1W05nYcB

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--anthony-hargrove-s-declaration-to-nfl-regarding-saints-bounty-scandal.html

"Bounty" seems to be mentioned in there quite a bit.(by my count around 15 times)

KNUBB fails again.

[KNUBB]

KNUBB answer this one question:

Do you think Roger Goodell is dumb enough to come out and accuse and penalize the Saints organization and players publicly. Borderline slander/libel them with out lock down proof knowing how the appeal and litigation process works?

We'll see. I do believe he is dumb enough to exaggerate whatever he may have found for his own gain to make it look like he cares for player safety.

[FirstTimer]

We'll see. I do believe he is dumb enough to exaggerate whatever he may have found for his own gain to make it look like he cares for player safety.

Yet leaving himself open to public embarrassment, the NFL looking like a clown show, possibly opening the NFL up to a suit by these players, the Saints organization etc?

Whatever man, you are beyond hope.

[ralaw]

We'll see. I do believe he is dumb enough to exaggerate whatever he may have found for his own gain to make it look like he cares for player safety.

So, you're saying Goodell would lie about his findings to punish players just to make him look good in the public eye? How would he cover up his lies when he and the NFL get sued?

[FirstTimer]

BRB, going to say Hargrove's declaration doesn't include the word "bounty" without reading the actual letter.

[RosettaStoned]

The word bounty was never used once in Hargrove's letter.

Even better fail.

;)

Did you even read the fucking letter, stupid?

[KNUBB]

So, you're saying Goodell would lie about his findings to punish players just to make him look good in the public eye? How would he cover up his lies when he and the NFL get sued?

It is less about the public and more about the many lawsuits he is facing from former players.

SIDENOTE: Off to work. Reconvene this evening to continue this enlightening discussions sirs. Good day