is Jonathan Martin a dumb ass or did someone do something to him worth talking about?

[f16harm]

MUCH easier to say you'd fight the guy from behind a keyboard.

Too much chest beating in this thread.

There is something to say about a 6'5" 315 pound man who can't stand up for himself. Even if you know you're going to get your ass beat, you still need to stand up for yourself. Many times even if you get your ass beat it will stop it as they see you aren't going to be a weak target anymore. Not sure how me and others are hiding behind a keyboard about fighting Incognito when none of us are Jonathan Martin, his size, or in the position.

[kmanharris]

There is something to say about a 6'5" 315 pound man who can't stand up for himself. Even if you know you're going to get your ass beat, you still need to stand up for yourself. Many times even if you get your ass beat it will stop it as they see you aren't going to be a week target anymore. Not sure how me and others are hiding behind a keyboard about fighting Incognito when none of us are Jonathan Martin, his size, or in the position.

What's there to say? He doesn't want to fight a guy to make something end that shouldn't even be occurring in the first place. So he went and reported it. How is that wrong? Why is fighting the only acceptable way to handle this situation in your eyes?

Not to mention if Martin tried to fight, got his ass beat, there's no saying the threats and shit are going to stop. He already threatened to kill Martin.

Since he didn't fight you see him as less of a man. Makes a lot of sense.

[Pitty]

You're assuming and speculating an awful lot for my liking.

How do you know Martin didn't even attempt to work his way out of these situations?

Martin is not a violent person or a fighter like Incognito. I agree that people should be able to stand up for themselves and defend themselves when necessary but I don't think it's fair to assume that every person must know how to fight for themselves and if they don't they are at fault. We live in a civilized society where you shouldn't have to physically fight for your well being. That is asinine.

Martin is a well educated football player. Incognito is a redneck thug. You can't just allow football players to police themselves because shit like this starts to happen. It is a big deal and guys like Incognito shouldn't even be allowed in the league. He is 100% at fault.

I also really like how some of you think it is so easy to stand up to bullies like Incognito. My guess is that you'd shit your pants if someone like him ever threatened to put his hands on you.

I'm not suggesting that Martin demands satisfaction from Incognito Barry Lyndon style. Also, nearly everything stated in this thread is speculation. We know two things so far: 1.) Incognito is a complete dick to first and second year players, abusing them verbally, financially, and physically. 2.) Martin either was too afraid to deal with these issues or simply didn't know how. Guys like Incognito, whom on one hand is a complete mindless thug (although I don't necessarily agree with this), on the other hand it is likely these qualities that have led to a sustained 10 year starting career and a Pro Bowl appearance as an offensive lineman.

Also, never would have guessed Tailback would pull the strawman of none of us standing up to Incognito. Classic. Considering I'm not also a 260 pound Offensive lineman, yes I'd probably shit my pants, but it's the equivalent of an office worker who has been with the company 10 years smacking coffee out of the temp's hand and making them pay for happy hour every week. Eventually you'll tell the dick to fuck off, or report it to HR.

[f16harm]

What's there to say? He doesn't want to fight a guy to make something end that shouldn't even be occurring in the first place. So he went and reported it. How is that wrong? Why is fighting the only acceptable way to handle this situation in your eyes?

Not to mention if Martin tried to fight, got his ass beat, there's no saying the threats and shit are going to stop. He already threatened to kill Martin.

Since he didn't fight you see him as less of a man. Makes a lot of sense.

Way to jump all of the way to the end of this ordeal. And I never said you literally challenge to a fight. What one should do, is immediately once you feel you don't like it, stand up for yourself and say NO, I'm not doing X anymore, or I'm not giving you $$ anymore. He'll probably return with a threat or physical altercation to you, at that point you stand up to him once again. If it's a threat, you confront him once again about it and ask him if he has a problem. If he assaults you it's on from there. I don't think any of us are saying to set a date and time at the bike racks. I think we are all agreeing you stand up to the crap as soon as you don't like it and you force him to make the first wrong physical move. Then you fight it out and stand your physical ground the best you can to show you are not intimidated anymore.

This shit was happening in April and earlier, why did Martin wait until 28 Oct? Why is everyone in the media and talking about it act like this is the first time anything like this has ever occurred in an NFL locker room? There is like a big gasp of like OH MY GOD, I can't believe this happened!!!

[kmanharris]

Way to jump all of the way to the end of this ordeal. And I never said you literally challenge to a fight. What one should do, is immediately once you feel you don't like it, stand up for yourself and say NO, I'm not doing X anymore, or I'm not giving you $$ anymore. He'll probably return with a threat or physical altercation to you, at that point you stand up to him once again. If it's a threat, you confront him once again about it and ask him if he has a problem. If he assaults you it's on from there. I don't think any of us are saying to set a date and time at the bike racks. I think we are all agreeing you stand up to the crap as soon as you don't like it and you force him to make the first wrong physical move. Then you fight it out and stand your physical ground the best you can to show you are not intimidated anymore.

This shit was happening in April and earlier, why did Martin wait until 28 Oct? Why is everyone in the media and talking about it act like this is the first time anything like this has ever occurred in an NFL locker room? There is like a big gasp of like OH MY GOD, I can't believe this happened!!!

Your lasts few posts have been about fighting. Unless "even if you're going to get your ass beat" means something else.

and because the media is shit, obviously.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I'm willing to bet that none of you realize that every single act done to Martin as "rookie hazing" is considered a federal felony and has guaranteed minimum prison time associated with it. Every time you see someone on hard knocks giving out a "rookie haircut" they're committing a federal felony. All it takes is for one person to say 3 words, "I got hazed," and boom, half your team is in the pen. I always laughed at how the NFL openly flaunted the hazing that goes on and now they're taking these steps to ensure half the league doesn't end up in prison or bankrupt from class action lawsuits.

You reap what you sow. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, I'm saying they shouldn't do it on fucking national television. Let's be smart about this shit for once. Especially if you're gonna refer to the NFL as a fraternity and a brotherhood. You're just asking for it at this point.


Fuck Martin though

They don't tie you up to goal posts anymore...they make you pay for things, make fun of you, do some rotten things, but it doesn't cross the line of federal felony, unless you count fucking with your food a federal felony.

[f16harm]

Your lasts few posts have been about fighting. Unless "even if you're going to get your ass beat" means something else.

and because the media is shit, obviously.

and I just explained my context to you. Sorry if you can't read that and understand why I'm trying to say even after I just tried to explain it.

face it, you're still salty because Jeff Ireland asked your #1 WR if his mother was a whore.

[kmanharris]

and I just explained my context to you. Sorry if you can't read that and understand why I'm trying to say even after I just tried to explain it.

face it, you're still salty because Jeff Ireland asked your #1 WR if his mother was a whore.

Your last post clarified what you were attempting to say in your previous ones, which is what my posts quoted.

and yes. I am super salty about something that has zero significance, and was said years ago, on my life that I would channel that saltiness and bring it into a thread on a completely different topic.

[f16harm]

Sweet turtleneck Richie's rockin back in his own days of being bullied. I particularly like the laser background.

[Tailback U]

I don't like the "they are the same size so he should be able to defend himself physically" argument.

Everyone knows, including Martin and Incognito, that Incognito would butt fuck Martin if he wanted to. Just because a guy is big doesn't mean he knows how to fight.

I think it's a stupid argument completely. I'm bigger than Floyd Mayweather, so if he bullies me I should be able to defend myself and fight him? Dumb.

Even then, nothing good would have come out of it if Martin did step to Incognito. He would have gotten his ass kicked, made fun of even more, and then been alienated by the team even more.

Lose/lose situation.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I was a bit of a bully in high school and it's one thing I regret a lot and take very seriously. Some of you either weren't bullied or didn't bully other people so maybe you don't take it as seriously as I do. I did some fucked up shit when I was younger and I witnessed it all the way through college football.

Some people just aren't fighters and there is nothing wrong with that. They don't deserved to be picked on for it and they shouldn't have to defend themselves from people who are.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The football locker room is where neanderthals and barbarians meet. Ya'll can act outraged, but you know this to be true.

Martin is weak / soft, whatever you want to call it and the buzzards circled him. Incognito just so happens to be THAT guy.

[f16harm]

I don't like the "they are the same size so he should be able to defend himself physically" argument.

Everyone knows, including Martin and Incognito, that Incognito would butt fuck Martin if he wanted to. Just because a guy is big doesn't mean he knows how to fight.

I think it's a stupid argument completely. I'm bigger than Floyd Mayweather, so if he bullies me I should be able to defend myself and fight him? Dumb.

Even then, nothing good would have come out of it if Martin did step to Incognito. He would have gotten his ass kicked, made fun of even more, and then been alienated by the team even more.

Lose/lose situation.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I was a bit of a bully in high school and it's one thing I regret a lot and take very seriously. Some of you either weren't bullied or didn't bully other people so maybe you don't take it as seriously as I do. I did some fucked up shit when I was younger and I witnessed it all the way through college football.

Some people just aren't fighters and there is nothing wrong with that. They don't deserved to be picked on for it and they shouldn't have to defend themselves from people who are.

Horrible analogy is horrible. Big difference between standing your ground and confronting an equally sized guy who just happens to be scrappy and crazy, as opposed to standing your ground against an equally or lesser sized guy you know to be methodically trained in fighting and endurance, one of the best in the world at his craft, and has never lost a fight in his career.

[Tailback U]

Horrible analogy is horrible. Big difference between standing your ground and confronting an equally sized guy who just happens to be scrappy and crazy, as opposed to standing your ground against an equally or lesser sized guy you know to be methodically trained in fighting and endurance, one of the best in the world at his craft, and has never lost a fight in his career.

So I shouldn't stand up to Floyd Mayweather if he bullied me because he would kick my ass?

Ass kicking is an ass kicking. A guy as big and as strong as Incognito could turn Martin's brain to mush with a couple good punches.

[Tailback U]

The football locker room is where neanderthals and barbarians meet. Ya'll can act outraged, but you know this to be true.

Martin is weak / soft, whatever you want to call it and the buzzards circled him. Incognito just so happens to be THAT guy.

I don't think bullying in this regard happens nearly as often as you think in the NFL. This is extortion, coercion, and a hate crime. This isn't your typical locker room bullying. Incognito isn't your typical locker room bully. He is certifiably insane by all accounts.

Martin is weak and soft, which is all the more reason why grown men shouldn't be bullying him like this.

[JimLeavy59]

Where are the leaders on this team is my question.