MMA Thread

[Hogle]

agreed, i honestly don't see any way randy won that round. it wasn't that impressive by brock, but he definitely won it, although just a 10-9 win. he controleed randy the whole round, and randy didn't really land any shots other than one little punch

[Liquidrob]

And for the record, I dont hate Brock, the guy has great potential, the size an awesome wrestling background and power, plus what I think makes him good at this point is he is a fighter, you either have it or you dont and he has it

Of course I pumped Mir up because I like to get some convo going, I still thought Mir would win, but I said numerous times before the fight that this fight doesnt prove much for either of them and they are not top heavyweights, Mir has never been a great HW

The Brock fans are a little over the top, beating Heath, Randy and Mir doesnt make you the best, it shows you can fight and have a good start, but besides the first Mir fight, the match making has been in Brocks favor

Fans today want to call the new thing the best way before they are, base it to much off potential

Lets see him fight Carwin, Cain, Randy again or even a Gonzaga before we go nuts about the guy

[Liquidrob]

... or they just aren't contenders for being the best in their respective class, which makes a hell of a lot more sense. Why would anyone try to prove a point that lets say GSP isn't a contender because he can't win the StrikeForce belt?

not really sure what you are saying, but like I said later in the post, so is the UFC HW class made up of a bunch of non contenders than?

[Steel Mamba]

Heh I dont wanna get into a Hendo debate.. I wont argue with anyone who still think hes an amazing fighter because I think he is too, just not quite as good as he once was.

More important question is.. who won that first round in the Randy/Brock fight? Cause I just cant see why Rosetta says Randy.. I just dont see it. Maybe the 2nd round, but he got KTFO before we could really make a judgement on that.

The round was close and really could be scored either way. Like RS said Brock got him down, but Randy easily got right back up before he could do any damage. So do you reward more points for the takedown or a great scramble? Personally when someone gets the fight standing again that quickly and in the manner that Randy did, then that initial takedown almost gets negated in my mind. The takedown becomes absolutely pointless if you can't keep him down there.

The 2nd takedown Brock actually landed a couple solid shots before Randy was able to get the fight standing again, but still for the most part he neutralized Brock's ground game. I still credit Brock with the takedown there, but it wasn't a game changer either. Then after that you see Randy could have scored a takedown of his own had Brock not grabbed the fence.

Overall I think Randy controlled that round and did a great job of neutralizing Brocks wrestling, he looked more comfortable with the strikes, and probably landed the most significant blow of that round. He landed a nice right coming out of that first clinch I believe. Also, the clinch game was about even with a slight edge to Randy.

On a more important note I believe the camera spotted Hogle during the introductions.

[JeremyHight]

Watching the fight again, I'd say that the first round was either 10-10 or 10-9 for Brock. Randy did have him up against the cage a few times, but did absolutely nothing in those cases. Brock took him down twice and for about 1 minute, actually hit him a few times pretty solidly, but other than that, it was pretty even. I'd give the edge on the takedowns. If the ref doesn't penalize Brock for grabbing the cage, then it shouldn't be considered, IMO.

The 2nd round I probably would have given to Randy if Brock didn't end it. Randy did look better than Brock in the 2nd round.

[Hogle]

haha, funny guy, and to respond to liquidrob, i know brock hasn't fought people that great, and i want to see him fight cain or carwin, but until then, i'm still gonna back lesnar up because i can't see him losing to any of those guys, and that's not just because he's beat some guys who aren't even that good

[JeremyHight]

not really sure what you are saying, but like I said later in the post, so is the UFC HW class made up of a bunch of non contenders than?

I'd say the HW division in UFC is Brock and Randy, but then not much else. I would have loved to put Kongo up there because he is one of my favorite fighters to watch, but he losses way too much when he really shouldn't, IMO, but definitely has all the physical tools.

The HW division in the UFC is very weak, but IMO, the division is weak everywhere. There are only a handful of good Heavyweights in the world; even in boxing, they are facing the same problem.

But even when they left AA or Tim left UFC, as weak of a division as it was, they weren't top contenders for the title. That says a lot.

[Kuzzy Powers]

Come on.. I just watched this round AGAIN.. and kept track of strike totals.

Brock landed 7 knees to Randy, most of which were early in the fight. Randy landed 3 knees on Brock the entire round.

Brock landed 7 strikes on Randy.. Randy landed 4 strikes on Brock.

Brock took Randy down.. got sloppy trying to mount, Randy got up, jumped on Brock's back but Brock took him down again. Controlled down on the ground for a minute or so, while landing 2 solid clean blows on Randy with his knee controlling his Randy's arm.

They get up.. Randy has Brock against the cage for last minute.. goes for take down, doesnt get it cause Brock grabbed the cage (which a point was NOT taken away for)

So...

Brock, 2 take downs, 7 knees, 7 clean strikes
Randy, 0 take downs, 3 knees, 4 clean strikes

How the fuck does Randy win the round? Brock is on top of him for a portion of the round, lands more stikes, and has 2 more takes downs. This is painfully obvious folks..

Incase you need more evidence.. Brock was on top of Randy for 25 seconds, from 2:58 to 2:33 in the round.. then on top of him for 1:20 from 2:14 to 0:54. Thats 1:45 seconds total.. plus leading in strikes.. plus 2 takedowns. What else do you need to know? How anyone can say Randy wins that round is beyond me.

[Hogle]

thanks, i saw that but really didn't want to have to write it all up lol

[Warner2BruceTD]

The last few pages have had some good old fashion MM arguments. Some thoughts...

-Hogle, I thought you were leaving the thread? You should. To laugh at the notion of Fedor being Top 3 P4P just shows you are either a MMA noob who has never seen him fight, or a troll. This would be like saying that Tiger Woods is not a Top 3 golfer, or Roger Federer isnt Top 3 in tennis. It's laughable, stupid, and you can't be taken seriously. Go back to the kids table,grown ups are talking.

-JeremyHight and rob are arguing over nothing, because themain point each is trying to make is correct. Casual fans don't really care about Affliction, because they have no marketable stars and no TV to build any. However, rob's point that it's hard to call yourself a hardcore fan if you dont find a way to watch this show is also true. It's a huge show. It's cant miss, and the Fedor result will set the tone for how things fall in 2010.

-With that said, i'm amazed that Affliction has managed to draw 100k buys for each of the first two shows. I attribute this to Tim Sylvia and AA moreso than Fedor. Due to UFC exposure, they are by far the two most marketable names that Affliction has used. Those two wins have now elevated Fedor to the point that he can now draw on his own, and Affliction III will prove that, because Josh Barnett means nothing for business, and nothing else on the card even resembles a draw.

Need proof Fedor was a non draw before he beat the UFC guys?

Fedor vs. Coleman for PRIDE did 50,000 buys.

Fedor vs. Lindland for BodogFight did so few buys, no estimate exists.

And both of those promotions had tv (albeit weak tv that nobody watched, particulary Bodog) to promote the fights.

I'm picking Barnett. I'll be the first, and maybe only, to do so. I think he'll catch a sub, and millions of dollars will go POOF when Fedor taps. Dana & Brock will cry.

[Hogle]

I know i'm just bringing up UFC names again, but really, i mean GSP and Anderson Silva have to be in top p4p rankings, and I've already stated that I don't see Fedor beating Lesnar and my reasons, so you can see why MY OPINION is that fedor is not in the top 3 p4p rankings, although he is up there

[JeremyHight]

One thing that always worries me when Pride/K1/Affliction guys come to the UFC is the cage. It is a huge part of the match and a lot of guys aren't used to it. I mean, if Fedor and Brock were to face off, are you saying that Brock wouldn't press him up against the side of the cage within the first 30 seconds.

I still think Fedor would win just based on experience and his overall skill set, but Brock could really wear the guy down by using the cage and his overall size. Brock doesn't have the cardio yet, but considering his progress over 4 fights, I see no reason to think he couldn't progress in that area as well.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I know i'm just bringing up UFC names again, but really, i mean GSP and Anderson Silva have to be in top p4p rankings, and I've already stated that I don't see Fedor beating Lesnar and my reasons, so you can see why MY OPINION is that fedor is not in the top 3 p4p rankings, although he is up there

Just stop.

The guys never loses, and has beaten every top HW that has ever been put in front of him. Usually with minimal effort.

You can argue that Lesnar would beat him, and I have no problem with that, even if I don't agree. But there is no argument, ZERO FUCKING ARGUMENT, that can be made that he isnt one of the top 3 fighters in the world. He's the greatest fighter in the history of the sport, and he's still in his prime. You are arguing against Jordan, Woods, Federer.

You can't knock him off that level until someone beats him.

[Hogle]

I don't understand how you can put him in the top 3 when you just stated that he may not even be the #1 HW in the world

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't understand how you can put him in the top 3 when you just stated that he may not even be the #1 HW in the world

When did I say this?