The General Wrestling Thread

[Dan The Man]

If we'd only gotten our WWE Ice Cream Bars this never would've happened.

[Warner2BruceTD]

So Meltzer & Alvarez got into a MEGA POWERS EXPLODE level argument on Observer Radio last night when discussing Daniel Bryan winning the title at Mania (dave's stance) vs Daniel Bryan winning the title as presumably planned at Extreme Rules in Seattle (not really Bryan's stance, he prefers the Mania title win, but argued just as many people would see it if they did it at Extreme Rules).

It led to Alvarez posting this, which may or may not be some good insight on viewing pattern when the network happens. Anyway, I know you guys are into the network stuff, so you might enjoy this:

Here is a direct comparison of wrestlingobserver.com versus WWE Network. Both are subscription services where you can hear or watch tons of audio or video "for free" with your sub, and can pick and choose what you want to listen to or watch. Several have mentioned this would be the best comparison, so here goes:

74% of our subscribers who listened to the post-Mania Wrestling Observer Radio audio last year also listened to the post-Mania Extreme Rules audio. Meaning if 1 million people order the Network for WrestleMania, using our site as a model that would mean approximately 740,000 Network subscribers would also likely watch Extreme Rules.

This, however, is not a fair comparison because we see about 7% growth in March/April for Mania every year and then a 7% drop when the show is over, because unlike the WWE Network people can sign up for only 1 month at a time if they want. Meaning there were people, I can't tell you how many, who were F4WOnline subscribers for the Mania audio but NOT the Extreme Rules audio. So the percentage of longer-term subscribers (a better comparison since you have to order 6 months to get WWE Network) who listened to both is almost certainly higher than 74%, perhaps even as high as 80%. So the idea that 1 million people will order a 6-month locked-in WWE Network subscription to watch WrestleMania, and then while their Network subscription is still in effect decide they WON'T watch Extreme Rules "for free" at any point is highly unlikely.

BTW, for those who wanted a WrestleMania vs. SummerSlam with Daniel Bryan comparison on this site, and again this percentage will be low because WrestleMania season is always the biggest of the year on this site in terms of numbers, it was 89%. And given the overall site subscriber base was probably 7% higher at Mania than at SummerSlam, that would mean VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE LONG-TERM SUBSCRIBER who listened to the Mania audio also listened to the SummerSlam audio.

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is extra funny if you listened to our TJ Perkins interview, when he talked about Sheamus approaching him at a RAW or SD taping and asking him how he did some random signature move of his. Perkins, totally kidding, said "Give me $5 and i'll teach you", and Sheamus gave him the stink eye and walked away.

[BigBiss]

So are we getting DB vs HHH now?

[Kuzzy Powers]

So are we getting DB vs HHH now?

Yep.

[Warner2BruceTD]

So are we getting DB vs HHH now?

That's the word. The only question, is did they make the change before or after Punk split?

Meltzer was saying they should just put Bryan in the Orton vs Batista match so they don't shit on it, put it on last, and have him win the belt. But it looks like they'll have him get his comeuppance on Trips first, then do the switch at Extreme Rules as rumored to be planned.

That means either Orton retains, or like i've been saying, double turn at Mania with Batista winning. The problem is they won't be able to get the double turn over because the crowd is going to boo both regardless.

Nice mess.

[Kuzzy Powers]

For what it's worth, ESPN Cleveland reporter Casey Kulas reports that he heard from sources at Monday's RAW in Cleveland that there was a heated backstage exchange between WWE officials and CM Punk.

He wrote:

"My info on CM Punk: I do know from sources that at #Raw in CLE there was heated exchange backstage between Punk & staff. Topic - concussion."

"Punk was heard arguing with staff saying "I passed all your damn concussion test" and "I'm not going out and telling fans that BS""

Absolutely ridiculous if that was the straw that broke the camels back.

More on this..

WrestlingINC.com reports that one of their readers attended CM Punk's Wizard World Q&A in Portland, Oregon this past weekend and said he doesn't think Sting should come to WWE because he doesn't have anything left in the tank and would again take away from the younger Superstars. Punk called Batista a friend but said he didn't feel the time was right for Batista to return because it was so unfair to take away from the other wrestlers who work hard everyday.

Punk said he's been frustrated with WWE's direction and feels the writers aren't in touch with what fans want. He's good money-wise and hasn't really spent much money so he's not worried about receiving a paycheck.

Punk said he's interested in UFC if his body can handle it but right now he doesn't think his body is in any shape for it. He said he's been really sick, especially September through November of last year. He's had weekly MRI's and blood work done but doctors can't figure out what's wrong. He started eating meat again and is starting to feel better but isn't close to 100%.

Scary concerning his health. Guess it was just a collection of shit that Punk had enough of.

[Warner2BruceTD]

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

LOL @ making THE REAL ROCK N ROLLA go to NXT. The idea is just funny. On par with Generico in NXT. Nice for a quick transition phase where we can get a few nice developmental matches without Vince or HHH's attention on him...but the fact that he has been in developmental now for what will surely be a year...it just makes me laugh. Generico can wrestle circles around 99.9% of the wrestlers on planet earth. As can Devitt. Lets have them do hip tosses and run ropes...that'll teach'em how to work, kid.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Sometimes it's that they are waiting to properly introduce them.

In Zayn's case, they wanted him to slow down & stop playing to the crowd (ugh).

Zayn will get over no matter what, he's gotten over in every single place he's been on the planet. I have zero concerns about Zayn. None. Not one. He'll go as far as they allow him to. One of the three best workers on the roster (if not the best) the day he's called up.

[Warner2BruceTD]

According to someone who knows Punk personally, he bought the building he lives in for $2.15M in 2011 in cash before he got his big contract in 2011. He rents out space in the building and lives in the pimp daddy loft. So he makes no payments but leases out the space.

That alone is enough to live on, nevermind the millions he likely has banked, considering he drives a 2005 car that is paid off, and is a minimalist in life. He also bought Colt Cabana's place and paid off Joey Mercury's house when Mercury was struggling to keep up.

He's not married, and has said he isn't interested in children (of course that can change, or happen by accident).

Dude doesn't need the injuries, the bullshit, or the politics involved in WWE. Good for him if he can tell Vince to eat dick and go home. We all wish we could pull that move on our boss, I can't even be mad.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

According to someone who knows Punk personally, he bought the building he lives in for $2.15M in 2011 in cash before he got his big contract in 2011. He rents out space in the building and lives in the pimp daddy loft. So he makes no payments but leases out the space.

That alone is enough to live on, nevermind the millions he likely has banked, considering he drives a 2005 car that is paid off, and is a minimalist in life. He also bought Colt Cabana's place and paid off Joey Mercury's house when Mercury was struggling to keep up.

He's not married, and has said he isn't interested in children (of course that can change, or happen by accident).

Dude doesn't need the injuries, the bullshit, or the politics involved in WWE. Good for him if he can tell Vince to eat dick and go home. We all wish we could pull that move on our boss, I can't even be mad.

There are very few dudes who can say they can tell Vince to go pound salt and not give a fuck about it. He is a moody curmudgeon most of the time anyway, but good for him if he can say that he's out and mean it.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Sometimes it's that they are waiting to properly introduce them.

In Zayn's case, they wanted him to slow down & stop playing to the crowd (ugh).

Zayn will get over no matter what, he's gotten over in every single place he's been on the planet. I have zero concerns about Zayn. None. Not one. He'll go as far as they allow him to. One of the three best workers on the roster (if not the best) the day he's called up.

They have one of the most well paid (as a collective) group of writers of any television show and a think-tank a mile deep...I will never understand the lack of creative in the WWE. Bringing in someone that writes himself as well as Sami Zayn and waiting to "properly introduce him" for a YEAR is head shaking.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Luis Urive aka the first Sin Cara aka the (second) first Mistico is officially a free agent. Good story with good insight & quotes from the Observer:

 

Luis Urive, the first Sin Cara, appeared on TV show Tercera Caida this past week and claimed that he owned the rights to the Sin Cara name. He had already opened a Sin Cara Gym in Mexico City and now that his WWE contract has expired, he’s taking dates using the Sin Cara name. That’s notable since WWE is using Jorge Arias as Sin Cara at the same time. Urive can’t use the Mistico name because CMLL owns it and has given it to a new wrestler. Urive said that his lawyers may be looking at WWE using the name for a new wrestler saying he’s got proof he owns the name. I do remember that WWE wasn’t able to register the name in Mexico, but I’m virtually certain they did for the U.S. He said that the reason it didn’t work out in the U.S. was because WWE told him he couldn’t wrestle the way he did in Mexico and said that psychologically screwed him up because he kept getting told what he couldn’t do and felt limited in the ring. He said he couldn’t understand it, because when they signed him, it was because he was a star wrestling a certain way, and then he was told he couldn’t wrestle that way. Anyway, that one didn’t work and it didn’t work for all the reasons I said it wasn’t going to work the day that they signed him. He admitted he looked awful on WWE television, but said since he left, he’s spent a lot of time training and getting in better shape. He was frustrated he wasn’t allowed to do what he does best. He said he would be working indies in Mexico and will work with Dr. Wagner Jr. and L.A. Park, the two biggest name indie wrestlers. He said he’s now focused and can wrestle the way he wants to. He said he has no problems with either Jorge Arias (who took over Sin Cara in WWE) or Del Rio. He said he thinks Hunico is a good guy. While he was on the show, they aired highlights of the new Mistico vs. Mephisto match on the 1/18 Fantastica Mania show in Japan. He noted he has nothing against the new Mistico and that he helped him get a break when he was Dragon Lee and also helped his brother, Rush. He wished him well but said he’s not at his level and he said that it does bother him that some promoters use his look as Mistico as opposed to the new Mistico on posters to sell tickets to see him. He said when he came to WWE, after his first match, the first thing he was told was not to do certain things, and that affected him mentally. You’re always going to have problems when you take a guy who legitimately was one of the biggest superstars of the decade and a major draw, and then tell him not to do things that got him over in the first place. It was part of what I considered the inevitability about the relationship. Urive thought he was a major star. It would be like Steve Austin going to Japan or Mexico and the promoters telling him not to do all the things that got him over and mentally, how he’d handle that, particularly if he then struggled to get over. It’s nobody’s fault, but it was part of the almost inevitability of why the relationship was doomed from the start. Mysterio never had a run close to what Sin Cara had so he didn’t have that cockiness to where him being told by HHH to tweak things didn’t offend him in the least. But it also explains why CMLL guys will always do better with New Japan than WWE, because with New Japan, the promotion doesn’t tell them what not to do, and the other wrestlers get a kick out of working their style and with them instead of the opposite. Again, you can argue both ways. They are just different mentalities although I obviously prefer the New Japan mentality of trying to make everyone the best they can be as opposed to everyone working within the same parameters. It’s the mix of styles and styles of matches on a single show that make New Japan the best big event promotion in the world. But a big difference is also the fan base. Japanese fans watching an unfamiliar style react well often because it’s different from what they usually see. In WWE, general fan reaction is biggest to things that are embedded in their heads by virtue of always seeing it. He said he’s going to work indies in Mexico, with a date on 2/1 in Mexico City and 3/1 in Tijuana the only things he’s booked for. He said he’d be open to work AAA, CMLL or Todos x Todos (El Hijo del Santo’s promotion). He said Jorge Arias and him used to travel together and Arias, as the new Sin Cara, is only doing his job. He said the only problem they ever had was in the past when he started as Mistico and Arias, who used the name in Juarez, was mad somebody in Mexico City was using his ring name. He said the La Mistica finisher was a move that actually happened by mistake when he slipped trying to do a head scissors when training with his uncle, Tony Salazar, and to block falling flat on his face, he held onto the arm and landed in a Fujiwara armbar position. He said Arias is a good guy. He said that he didn’t study English when with WWE (and this was a big issue with management). He said that they say WWE style is safer, but he got hurt more doing WWE style than he ever did working in Mexico. He noted that even though he didn’t get a push, he was one of the best merchandise sellers in WWE. He also spoke highly of Mysterio, and said the most humble top stars in WWE were Mysterio and Dwayne Johnson. He said he’s thankful to Paco Alonso for giving him his break, as that allowed him the chance to go all over the world and be with WWE, but was negative about CMLL booking. He said he owned the Sin Cara name and isn’t afraid of WWE suing him. There were people who thought he was full of it on that.

Notes from the

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

So, basically, he can be Sin Cara all he wants in Mexico since the WWE doesn't own the rights to the name in Mexico?