The General Wrestling Thread

[FedEx227]

Basically my thought on the Attitude era is this. At the time, I was 11-13ish, so it seemed pretty cool. I had some idea that it was fake, but it was fine, I pretty much said to myself I was watching an over the top sporting event. That era blurred the line a lot to make it easier to watch because yeah you had your wild characters, but in some way you still had some angles/wrestlers that made it seem to have hints of realism (even if I didn't believe it).

Watching it now, it has not aged well at all. I downloaded a bunch of Nitro/Raws from the era, and honestly Nitro has aged far better. There's obviously a ton of really retarded booking, boring shows, etc... but Raw is War just seems...odd, it's hard to explain but it hasn't aged well. Adored it in my youth, but it's very... 90s.

I feel the same way about ECW, say what you want about how great it was, go watch a PPV, go watch an episode of Hardcore TV now. Not saying it's bad, but it's 90s to the extreme. Not that there's anything wrong with it persay, it just doesn't age all that well.

By contrast, I can watch late 80s-early 90 WWF anytime. 2000 WWF is still my favorite wrestling year ever. Most Japan stuff I can still watch and mid-2000s ROH is still easily watchable.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I spent most of my Attitude era watching ECW and WCW.

ECW was just a superior product and didn't require the time to watch it like watching the Monday Night Wars did.

On Mondays, I kept it on WCW most of the time, they suckered me in by starting an hour before RAW most of the time. With that said, I did watch a lot of the Attitude Era, I loved some of the things they were doing, although, the product in hindsight was the basic cartoony WWE, but it was like the adult Swim version of the cartoony WWE.

Was there much difference between Undertaker and his ministry over Papa Shango making the Ultimate Warrior projectile vomit? In the grand scheme of things...not really.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Basically my thought on the Attitude era is this. At the time, I was 11-13ish, so it seemed pretty cool. I had some idea that it was fake, but it was fine, I pretty much said to myself I was watching an over the top sporting event. That era blurred the line a lot to make it easier to watch because yeah you had your wild characters, but in some way you still had some angles/wrestlers that made it seem to have hints of realism (even if I didn't believe it).

Watching it now, it has not aged well at all. I downloaded a bunch of Nitro/Raws from the era, and honestly Nitro has aged far better. There's obviously a ton of really retarded booking, boring shows, etc... but Raw is War just seems...odd, it's hard to explain but it hasn't aged well. Adored it in my youth, but it's very... 90s.

I feel the same way about ECW, say what you want about how great it was, go watch a PPV, go watch an episode of Hardcore TV now. Not saying it's bad, but it's 90s to the extreme. Not that there's anything wrong with it persay, it just doesn't age all that well.

By contrast, I can watch late 80s-early 90 WWF anytime. 2000 WWF is still my favorite wrestling year ever. Most Japan stuff I can still watch and mid-2000s ROH is still easily watchable.

The best ECW matches hold up well...lots of them don't...the promos and the characters were very 90's oriented, so its though to see them holding up 15 years later, although, conceptually, they are still fantastic if you actually think about what is going on...but if you take it for what its worth, then, not so much.

It is why Paul's comments recently in regard to rehashing ECW in 2010 is moronic...it doesn't hold up culturally or socially.

The best wrestling at any given time is one that is currently socially and culturally relevant. Programs, I mean. Matches can hold up over time, but programs as a whole...they are much better when you sit down and currently watch them. I mean...watching cartoony characters today doesn't quite work. However, worked great in the 80's and 80's.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I agree with FedEx on almost all points.

ECW has aged very badly. I have to watch it with the context in mind. I you didn't live it, and someone gave you the tapes, they'd probably be very unimpressed.

And yes, Nitro holds up a million times better than RAW. It's because while NITRO was having awesome mid card matches and featuring world class wrestlers, RAW was doing 2 minute TV matches with the likes of Chyna, Mr. Ass, and Beaver Cleavege. However, the WWE main events from that era destroy the WCW main events.

Japan always holds up, because its not character based. Some of the 80's stuff looks a little dated only because the moves are a bit antiquated, but the workrate and logic is still good.

ROH is actually better when you go back in time...IF you like balls to the wall athletic wrestling and head drops. Obviously, as if you guys cant tell, I do.

I think being a little older than you guys, I was not as attached to characters like Stone Cold & The Rock. I was in my 20's already, and saw ECW with my own eyes, first hand, in Philly, do all of that stuff first, when it seemed more authentic and raw (no pun intended). ECW, combined with the internet taking off, also made it easier to expand my horizons in those days, and I started seeking out other shit that I found more interesting than what I saw as rehashed & watered down ECW redux. No more searching for tape trades to get 2 year old All Japan matches. It became easy to follow other stuff.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Yeah, if you didn't watch ECW at the time, going back and watching it you'd find 95% of it dated.

Only the best ECW matches hold up. The moments are best left as clips, but when you put them into context, just isn't all that impressive.

I have most of the tape collection from ECW (missing a few PPVs here and some major non-televised events, I'd say I got about 75% of it though) and going back...its ok, just looks dated.

You can't really conceptualize the character of Raven if you are watching it with a dead mind (and honestly, I tend to not think when watching wrestling) today. Back then, he was a ground breaking character...as was guys like Sandman and many others. However, today...re-watching, you just can't conceptualize why they were groundbreaking.

[IamMedellin]

"It came real close with TNA. To me, it was more of a deal with Spike TV and then a stock and ownership deal involving TNA. I had a five-year plan. I was going to spend 18 months building the roster, the next 18 months exploiting that built roster, that's three years in, go public in three, stay for two more running it and get out at 50 [years old]. That was my plan. I had an exit plan. I had a five-year plan and I clued everyone into it. I told TNA what my plan was and I told Spike TV what my plan was and how we would capitalize on it and how we would make this thing move and an acknowledgment that wrestling is a diminishing market and it's not perceived as cool and here's how you, if not change course, at least present it differently so that at least you have a chance in today's marketplace to at least compete. When that didn't happen, that was it. I didn't have any other interest in doing it. It was close. I would have done it for that particular deal and that's it. That time passed. Now I'm looking at taking my abilities elsewhere and the logical step for me is this entry point right now both into MMA and into also just the branding world."

from MMAFighting.com

[JayDizzle]

[SHOGUN]

So I finally sat through Bound for Glory. Here were my usual thoughts throughout the event.

They really need to stop putting Gen Me/MCMG matches in the beginning because it really raises your expectations of what's to come.

Bah. The girls match. Madison ethers Hemme before the match. Hilarious.

Goddamn does Mickey look amazing.

ITS A FUCKING 4-WAY MATCH. WHY ARE THESE BITCHES TREATING IT LIKE A TAG MATCH!?!?!?!?!?!

My god what a shitty finish. Velet was just laying on her back trying to sell the "attempted" to do the pull on the shorts pin by Tara.

Eric Young and Orlando Jones segment and match. It was retarded. Fast forward.

Lethal vs. Williams was a pretty decent match. Lethal does his usual "underdog face" bit. Looks like he's going to be feuding with the Jersey knockoffs.

RVD vs. Abyss was really good IMO. A lot better than I thought it'd be.

It's amazing how much Jarrett is dickeating Joe during this match. Obvious heel turn coming.....and there it is.

Team 3D delivers a decent retirement promo and challenges the MCMG for their final match. Meh. Don't really want to see Sabin and Shelley carry those two fatasses in a match.

Lethal Lockdown is fucking retarded. Having 10 men in that tiny ass area brawling it out for ONE pinfall.

LOLWUT. Brian Kendrick must have been hiding on the top of the cage for over 15-20 minutes just for that one spot that didn't even effect the final outcome whatsoever.

WHY?? Why do you do spend all this time getting Fortune over and having them beat the shit out of the ECW guys all of these weeks only to have them fucking lose to guys who will never see a reasonable push again? It undoes all that hard work you did. It wasn't even a cheap or contestable loss, either. They fucking let TOMMY DREAMER pin AJ STYLES cleanly. WHY???????

Good main event, but you can definitely tell that Angle had a lot of input in this match. Just a shitload of finisher attempts and near pinfalls.

LOOOOL. It's like the NWO all over again. Almost the exact same ending from that fateful day. Ref gets KO'd, Bischoff comes to the ring with a chair and intends to hit somebody. Hogan's music drops and hobbles down to the ring in crutches looking pissed. Hogan and Bischoff are about to get into a crutch/lightsaber duel before Hardy tries to intervene. Hogan hands Hardy his crutch and threatens to hit Bischoff, but Angle stumbles to his feet and takes the blow. Hardy takes the other crutch and hits Anderson. Hogan was faking his back issues, Hardy becomes champion and everyone loses their shit and start throwing garbage into the ring. Then Abyss and Jarrett start coming to the ring to celebrate. RVD runs in asking WTF is going on and he gets beat up.

In reality it's not a huge shock at all that Bischoff and Hogan were "They" (especially since they tipped their hand a bit the last week), but Hardy was a shock. I figured it was going to be Anderson (wishful thinking on my part). I'm extremely interested in finding out where this goes. Goddamn you, TNA.

All in all the matches were meh, but the storyline was big.

[IamMedellin]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdhgISGDzQg[/ame]

Layla

[JayDizzle]

lolBarrett.

MFer's a cartoon supervillian at this point.

"Until next time Cena... YOU CAN'T SEE ME!" Complete with hand gesture.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I saw the JWOWW in TNA video and all I know is this...TNA needs to strap a rocket ship to the back of Robbie E and Cookie NOW NOW NOW!

The Impact Zone hates these MF'rs and they cheer for everything.

They need to beat Lethal NOW!

[IamMedellin]

xpac heat?

[Bigpapa42]

Rumor, apparently from Wrestling Observer...

Apparently Sting is done after this last taping, as he needs shoulder surgery and he's out of contract in December. Nash is out of contract soon. Two of the main parts of their main storyline could be done with the company.

Really TNA?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

xpac heat?

If the Impact Zone turds boo it, a group notorious for cheering every lame thing they do, they need to strap a rocket ship to its back and let it go.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I need to book TNA.

The Shore needs a mile high push.

Plus, they need a faction...I suggest finding Rob Terry, re-nicknaming him "Rob Rob Juice" and have him be a guido in training.