The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

In the midst of all the talk about the viewership...has anyone ever actually thought that, those fans are gone and simply never coming back?

Wrestling was regional / territorial for most of its history...the people that watched, watched THEIR BRAND and rolled with it. When it died out, they didn't, for the most part, start watching another promotion to fill the void. For all discussion purposes, once the territory died, the fans went with it.

WCW, like other territories, had its viewership that was through the roof at one point and that boom period in wrestling saw a lot of casual viewers jump on board but the WCW/WWF audience saw a lot of crossover. Once WCW dwindled down and died, much of the audience did too, and in the WWE product that survived, the numbers dwindled down to what we have now.

I'm of the belief that, the market share is the market share and there isn't much growth to be had right now. There isn't a surging market or territory that could yield a boom, and there isn't a market that will come back to the WWE for no reason. As a national brand, it simply doesn't have the appeal that niche or territorial brands provide that could grow an audience like it wants.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Isn't that Primo in the back, not Bourne?

It could be.

[Bigpapa42]

PG doesn't mean it has to be illogical, stupid and boring. PG is perfectly fine, most the TV-14 things were terrible. Does it really matter if HHH is allowed to make a penis joke? Cena/Punk was PG and it was awesome.

Exactly. PG becomes the buzzword of blame but its really not what the problem is. WCW was pretty much PG through its entire Nitro run and they could put together some stuff that obviously appealed to adults rather than kids. They also put together some stuff that appealed to no one but that's besides the point.

Look at the Diva's. The current group is fucking dire. Its not because they suck in the ring (which they do) as that really wouldn't matter. Its not that they aren't sexy or don't show skin - there is cleavage and butt check if that's all you want. But the division as a whole is completely redundant at this point because fans are given absolutely zero reason to care. How would one define the character of Kelly Kelly or Alicia Fox? Its like a writer made the barest outline of a character and that's it. There is really nothing there. That's pretty much the whole division. There is no reason that fans should care about these women. So most of us don't. Its not to say the Diva's would ever be draws or anything, but the complete lack of effort by the WWE is symptomatic of the bigger problem.

[partners panic]

Ricky Marvin is the guy with his hands on the Shoulders of Rey and Swagger.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Exactly. PG becomes the buzzword of blame but its really not what the problem is. WCW was pretty much PG through its entire Nitro run and they could put together some stuff that obviously appealed to adults rather than kids. They also put together some stuff that appealed to no one but that's besides the point.

Look at the Diva's. The current group is fucking dire. Its not because they suck in the ring (which they do) as that really wouldn't matter. Its not that they aren't sexy or don't show skin - there is cleavage and butt check if that's all you want. But the division as a whole is completely redundant at this point because fans are given absolutely zero reason to care. How would one define the character of Kelly Kelly or Alicia Fox? Its like a writer made the barest outline of a character and that's it. There is really nothing there. That's pretty much the whole division. There is no reason that fans should care about these women. So most of us don't. Its not to say the Diva's would ever be draws or anything, but the complete lack of effort by the WWE is symptomatic of the bigger problem.

That would be 95% of the roster.

Any wrestler that was at least a midcard mainstay in wrestling throughout its history, you could pinpoint penultimate moments or matches where you could point to their character evolving or a feud they've had or a promo that has changed them in some way, good or bad. It was some change in character at some level.

The WWE does not do this.

There are very few guys on the roster that have evolved over time into an actual character.

You have top talents that do...sure. CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, John Cena, H's, 'Taker...but look at the top guys that have simply not evolved at all...

Alberto Del Rio
Jack Swagger
Kofi Kingston
Dolph Ziggler
Sheamus (sans his H's feud when he first started)

Those are all to guys or should be top guy mainstays. Can't recall anything in regards to story or feud that make any of these guys have legitimate character...and I like some of these guys a lot...like Ziggler and Sheamus, I think two very solid, good wrestlers, good characters, good looks...but, haven't exactly given me a reason to really engage in one of their feuds. Kingston should be a mainstay around the IC or US titles...he's still the same kid friendly goofy Kofi. Swagger should be an uppercard Kurt Angle-lite...he's still the mush mouthed goofy heel. Del Rio has never given anyone a reason to care about him, at all.

[Bigpapa42]

Agree Larry. A few of the midcard guys end up getting a little bit, like Ziggler. But they are still so fucking generic and bland.

I just don't get the approach by the E. Does Vince just really think it doesn't matter at this point? Have they forgotten how to add any character? Or do they really think that if they don't keep things on a third grade level, the kiddies will tune out?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It is a combination of Vince not caring and it permeates to everyone else not caring about anyone above a certain level along with the top guys in creative essentially forgetting or dropping things before they even start.

The A.W. deal is a very good example of it.

He starts his recruiting bit...drops it...becomes a manager...and he says something someone on the corporate level doesn't like...he's gone and now the PTP'rs are going to sent back to developmental, surely.

They just stop, start, and restart, and stop shit all of the time on the lower end. Feuds don't develop at the lower levels and this character developmental and the ability to get yourself over just doesn't happen.

The only true undercard talent to get himself over in recent years was Zack Ryder and we all know that story.

[JimLeavy59]

WWE relases Diva Sofia Cortez, She had some talent I liked her work in the ring gotta love that chicks like her get released but Alicia Fox and Kelly Kelly are still around.

[Warner2BruceTD]

IT'S BACK!

W2BTD'S "How many of these mid card geeks can you name?" GAME!

 

OK, there are 11 men in the photo.

The easy ones are Santino, Epico, Swagger, two strike Wellness policy Rey, Kofi Kingston.

A couple of you got ref Mike Chioda. He's at the top and appears to be very drunk, throwing gang signs. So that's six.

panthers panic got the guy in the middle, that's Ricky Marvin of NOAH.

The guy directly behind Ricky Marvin, with the head turned whose entire face is obscured, is New Japan's MVP. Eight down, three to go.

The asian guy in the orange shirt? I have no idea. The are in Japan. Could be a New Japan or NOAH office guy or young boy hanging out with Marvin/MVP, could be a fan, could be a WWE hired liason to help the guys around town, I have no clue. I don't recognize him.

Dude all the way in the back (can only see his hair) is probably Primo. Makes sense because Epico is there, same hair, looks like he's brown, etc. Can't confirm, could be a waiter for all I know, but I think it's Primo.

As for the guy in the backwards hat in between Epico & MVP, there is much debate. Some say Ziggler. I don't see it. Looks like Shane Helms, but obvioulsy that makes no sense. Ryder? That would be my best guess. But nobody knows for sure.

[JimLeavy59]

[EmpireWF]

Some say Ziggler. I don't see it. Looks like Shane Helms, but obvioulsy that makes no sense. Ryder? That would be my best guess. But nobody knows for sure.

lol dude, that's definitely Ziggler.


FUCK---meant Ryder.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Look at the smile, its Ryder, fo sho.

[Warner2BruceTD]

lol dude, that's definitely Ziggler.

Look at the smile, its Ryder, fo sho.

lol

Anyway, is it just me, or is Santino always having the time of his life in these pictures? Good for him, dude is loving life.

[EmpireWF]

my bad, meant Ryder...he's become such a ghost of late, I mentioned Ziggler.

If I was Santino, I'd be one happy ass mfer, too. He probably makes a ton off merchandise from being one of the biggest fan favorites the past 5 or however many years.

[Bigpapa42]

Holy fuck, Rey Rey is slowly morphing into Konnan...

As for Santino, yeah... Guy does usually seem like he's enjoying life. The sports station here in Canada that shows the WWE had in on a year or two ago and he was mostly out-of-character. He was goofing around with the host and he's straight funny.