[2013] MLB Hall of Fame. Who Would you vote for?

[Goober]

Since everyone is already posting their ballots, I figured I might as well post this. With the poll, we can decide who would get into the HOF if VSNers were in charge of the voting. Last year we agreed with the real voters. Only Barry Larkin was voted in; he received 94.6% of the VSN vote, and 86.4% of the baseball writer's vote. Remember a player has to receive 75% of the vote to be inducted.

The official ballot has 37 names on it, this forum allows a maximum of 25 poll options, so I had to remove a few names. I picked players I thought had no chance of getting in, and whom I did not expect to receive many (if any) votes. If you would like to vote for a player removed, post so. Remember you can only vote for 10 players! Do not vote for who you think will get in. Vote for who you would vote for if you had a ballot.

Discuss as you wish, also I am interested to see if anyone's ballot has changed from last year. Did you add or remove a player that was on last year's ballot? If so why?

 

[Leftwich]

I'm gonna get Fred McGriff in the hall of fame if its the last thing i do.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
E. Martinez
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
L. Walker
B. Williams
----------------

Same list for me as last year, with the new guys Bonds, Clemens, Biggio & Piazza added.

-I don't believe in 'first ballot' nonsense, you are either a hall of famer, or not. So I don't 'make guys wait'. That's the one thing I hate more than anything else about HOF voting.

-Leaving the proven steroid guys out of this, I can't fathom how somebody wouldn't vote for Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, or Walker. I can entertain debates on any of the others.

-Tim Raines is never getting in, and it's an absolute joke. Dominated the game. Victim of playing too long, something nobody should care about in this context. What they did in their primes should be what matters most.

-Lofton, Trammell, Schilling are close. Maybe in a weaker field. You can only vote for ten. Somebody hard sell me on those three and put them over the top.

-I still say no to Sosa & McGwire. Here is my reasoning. Unlike some of the other proven steroid guys like Bonds or Clemens, I think Sosa & McGwire owe nearly all of their success to cheating. McGwire used PED's from day one. Sosa was not HOF caliber before PED's. Their numbers aren't overwhelming enough for me to overlook that. I also think McGwire did nothing else well aside from hit HR's. I watched him his entire career, and aside from the 1998 freakshow, I never thought of him as an all time great. Maybe i'm in the minority on that, and that's ok.

 

[Senser81]

I'm voting all the steroid guys in (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Ralphie). Just be done with it. Put them all in the same year, refer to it as the HOF Steroid Year, and move on. I'm partially serious.

 

[FirstTimer]

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
E. Martinez
D. Murphy
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Larry Walker

 

[FirstTimer]

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
E. Martinez
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
L. Walker
B. Williams
----------------

Same list for me as last year, with the new guys Bonds, Clemens, Biggio & Piazza added.

-I don't believe in 'first ballot' nonsense, you are either a hall of famer, or not. So I don't 'make guys wait'. That's the one thing I hate more than anything else about HOF voting.

-Leaving the proven steroid guys out of this, I can't fathom how somebody wouldn't vote for Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, or Walker. I can entertain debates on any of the others.

-Tim Raines is never getting in, and it's an absolute joke. Dominated the game. Victim of playing too long, something nobody should care about in this context. What they did in their primes should be what matters most.

-Lofton, Trammell, Schilling are close. Maybe in a weaker field. You can only vote for ten. Somebody hard sell me on those three and put them over the top.

-I still say no to Sosa & McGwire. Here is my reasoning. Unlike some of the other proven steroid guys like Bonds or Clemens, I think Sosa & McGwire owe nearly all of their success to cheating. McGwire used PED's from day one. Sosa was not HOF caliber before PED's. Their numbers aren't overwhelming enough for me to overlook that. I also think McGwire did nothing else well aside from hit HR's. I watched him his entire career, and aside from the 1998 freakshow, I never thought of him as an all time great. Maybe i'm in the minority on that, and that's ok.

-Why no Dale Murphy then?

-Agree here. It's also why I'll never put Raffy in.

As for Schilling, IMO SChilling was a top flight starter for a decade and some change. For 2000-2004 he was consistently one of the best pitchers in all of baseball. Missed out on come Cy Youngs because he happened to be pitching with Randy Johnson. Also, people hate to hear it but he was a key cog in two WS winning pitching staffs and a main part of that 2004 Red Sox team that broke "the curse". How much should that play into it? I don't know. But in a history rich sport like baseball IMO it carries a lot.

 

[Senser81]

-Lofton, Trammell, Schilling are close. Maybe in a weaker field. You can only vote for ten. Somebody hard sell me on those three and put them over the top.

Ken Lofton HOF resume:

*Backup to Steve Kerr at U of Arizona.
*Traded for Ed Taubensee
*Holds AL rookie SB record (66)
*80% base stealer, led AL in SBs his first 5 years
*reached the postseason with 6 different teams

 

[FedEx227]

I'm voting all the steroid guys in (Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Ralphie). Just be done with it. Put them all in the same year, refer to it as the HOF Steroid Year, and move on. I'm partially serious.

I'm dead serious. I've long said that. It happened, it was an unregulated time in the game. Make it the steroid era. The head in the sand, this guy is okay because he went through grand jury but this guy is guilty because people said he did it, blah blah blah...

 

[FedEx227]

Did some more research and changed from what I voted in the original thread.

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Murphy
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Walker

 

[FirstTimer]

Did some more research and changed from what I voted in the original thread.

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Murphy
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Walker

The McGwire vote is kind of surprising to me for some reason.

Why no Raffy?

 

[FedEx227]

Eh, McGwire was just a better player to me.

Palmeiro was .288/.371/.515, 132 OPS+, 66.1 WAR
McGwire .263/.394/.588, 163 OPS+, 58.7 WAR

Obviously defense hurts McGwire, but those are pretty unprecedented (and aided but you know my stance) power numbers.

More towards my stance, all we really know is McGwire took Andro, it was in his locker. The drug was still legal when he did that and didn't make it to banned lists until somewhere around 2002-2004 I believe. Raffy tested positive and was suspended. Manny won't make my list because he was also tested and suspended. I'm just not into using hearsay, rumors and body test to keep guys out of the Hall.

 

[FirstTimer]

Eh, McGwire was just a better player to me.

Palmeiro was .288/.371/.515, 132 OPS+, 66.1 WAR
McGwire .263/.394/.588, 163 OPS+, 58.7 WAR

Obviously defense hurts McGwire, but those are pretty unprecedented (and aided but you know my stance) power numbers.

My bad. Didn't mean to compare between the two. Just meant I was surprised you voted for McGwire in general. and in general why no Raffy(who you ever put him in)?

 

[FirstTimer]

Eh, McGwire was just a better player to me.

Palmeiro was .288/.371/.515, 132 OPS+, 66.1 WAR
McGwire .263/.394/.588, 163 OPS+, 58.7 WAR

Obviously defense hurts McGwire, but those are pretty unprecedented (and aided but you know my stance) power numbers.

More towards my stance, all we really know is McGwire took Andro, it was in his locker. The drug was still legal when he did that and didn't make it to banned lists until somewhere around 2002-2004 I believe. Raffy tested positive and was suspended. Manny won't make my list either because he was also tested and suspended. I'm just not into using hearsay, rumors and body test to keep guys out of the Hall.

Mac admitted to juicing. And if you voted Mac..why not Sosa over him?

 

[FedEx227]

I added another portion to my post, sorry. Raffy because he tested positive and was suspended. McGwire had something in his locker that wasn't tested/illegal at the time.

 

[FedEx227]

Mac admitted to juicing.

Yeah, he did, but that's really not enough for me to leave him out. He didn't test positively under the "rules" of MLB. To me, that's a moral issue at that point. Obviously it's still cheating, but it wasn't counted as cheating by the MLB, so why should I scald him for it?

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah, he did, but that's really not enough for me to leave him out. He didn't test positively under the "rules" of MLB. To me, that's a moral issue at that point. Obviously it's still cheating, but it wasn't counted as cheating by the MLB, so why should I scald him for it?

It actually was. The steroid policy just had no teeth. Steroids had been banned since the early 90's.

 

[FedEx227]

Mac admitted to juicing. And if you voted Mac..why not Sosa over him?

Because Sosa wasn't nearly as good.

McGwire .263/.394/.588, 163 OPS+, 58.7 WAR
Sosa .273/.344/.534, 128 OPS+, 57.8 WAR

 

[FedEx227]

It actually was. The steroid policy just had no teeth. Steroids had been banned since the early 90's.

Right, it had no teeth. Obviously MLB didn't take it seriously enough to be proactive about testing for it, so I'm not going to take it seriously either. Guys used the loophole, like I said, unless someone was actually punished under MLB rules, it's a moral issue and that's a silly stance when the Hall is filled with all kind of moral wrongdoers.

 

[FirstTimer]

Because Sosa wasn't nearly as good.

McGwire .263/.394/.588, 163 OPS+, 58.7 WAR
Sosa .273/.344/.534, 128 OPS+, 57.8 WAR

Fair enough. The numbers don't bear it out but I always came away that Sosa was the better player during their respective careers. Sosa's peak was better but I think what people forget about McGwire is that even between his rookie season and when he broke the Maris record he was still beasting in Oakland. So much of the narrative of McGwire glosses over his crazy productive 88-95. Plus he broke down so quickly after the 70 season, where as Sosa kept it going for another 6-7 years.

 

[SuperKevin]

Can't vote for Sosa because he gives me the creeps.