AL MVP - Trout or Miggy?

[moneyman255]

McCutchen doesn't use illegal PEDs.

Fuck off.

 

[Leftwich]

Fuck off.

Quality post faggot.

I'm going with Miggy. Trout is great and will continue to be great but if Miggy gets that triple crown how can you not. Detroit and LA will be in the hunt for the second wildcard all year but ultimately i think they both fall short.

 

[NAHSTE]

:trouty: hands down, no other acceptable answer.

 

[JeremyHight]

Who should win? Probably Trout according to all the SABR fanatics.

Who will win? Miggy, too many voters use the traditional metrics. People may be upset by that, but there is a reason why the Triple Crown is based on HR, BA, and RBI and not including things like WAR.

 

[Slateman]

Who should win? Probably Trout according to all the SABR fanatics.

Who will win? Miggy, too many voters use the traditional metrics. People may be upset by that, but there is a reason why the Triple Crown is based on HR, BA, and RBI and not including things like WAR.

Because when they first thought of the Triple Crown, they didn't have WAR?

 

[FedEx227]

Here's the issue, the Triple Crown is important yes and if we're arguing who will people vote for, it probably will be Cabrera. The problem is, most of us here should be smarter. Hate WAR all you want, use your eyes for this one if you want. Cabrera is a negative defensive presence at 3B and has played a huge part in the Tigers being one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Trout is also a really good baserunner (looking beyond SB numbers) while Cabrera is awful. WAR tells this story too and again to my original point, just because people 70 years ago said "THESE THREE STATS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT" doesn't mean we have to do that now. We've evolved past that. WAR withstanding the vote is Trout for me. Add in WAR and really any other high level metric, it's a no brainer. :trouty:

Also funny that now the people rooting for the guy with better defense and baserunning are the "SABR nerds" but the people voting for the fat dude who uses a stone for a glove but hits tons of home runs is the "old school" vote.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Does anybody have access to the Bill James site?

Curious what his old win shares system has to say, and if the gap is as wide as WAR.

On second thought, does James even calculate win shares during the season? Not even sure if its cumulative or calculated at the end, I haven't looked at win shares in years.

 

[NAHSTE]

Does anybody have access to the Bill James site?

Curious what his old win shares system has to say, and if the gap is as wide as WAR.

On second thought, does James even calculate win shares during the season? Not even sure if its cumulative or calculated at the end, I haven't looked at win shares in years.

Fairly certain he doesn't tabulate it until the offseason, so it can run in his handbook that winter.

Anyway, I think this comes down to whether or not you think defense and base running matter, or if you're dumb.

 

[Glenbino]

Runs batted in.... :lol:

I wonder if one guy batting 3rd and one guy leading off would have anything to do with Miggy driving in so many more runs that Trout.

I'll take the 46 steals in 50 attempts over a stat generated by lineup position every day.

Hate on the fWAR metric all you want but when one guy is posting a +13 compared to -9.4 that has to come into consideration IMO.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Here's the issue, the Triple Crown is important yes and if we're arguing who will people vote for, it probably will be Cabrera. The problem is, most of us here should be smarter. Hate WAR all you want, use your eyes for this one if you want. Cabrera is a negative defensive presence at 3B and has played a huge part in the Tigers being one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Trout is also a really good baserunner (looking beyond SB numbers) while Cabrera is awful. WAR tells this story too and again to my original point, just because people 70 years ago said "THESE THREE STATS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT" doesn't mean we have to do that now. We've evolved past that. WAR withstanding the vote is Trout for me. Add in WAR and really any other high level metric, it's a no brainer. :trouty:

Also funny that now the people rooting for the guy with better defense and baserunning are the "SABR nerds" but the people voting for the fat dude who uses a stone for a glove but hits tons of home runs is the "old school" vote.

The defense part is funny, because if they had an even average infield defense, they probably have a team that is in first right now, and a few games up on the White Sox. Obviously, that's a team thing, but when you have a player like Trout who can save the game with a defensive play, or can change the game offensively in numerous ways, that is the definition of valuable.

 

[Slateman]

Runs batted in.... :lol:

I wonder if one guy batting 3rd and one guy leading off would have anything to do with Miggy driving in so many more runs that Trout.

I'll take the 46 steals in 50 attempts over a stat generated by lineup position every day.

Hate on the fWAR metric all you want but when one guy is posting a +13 compared to -9.4 that has to come into consideration IMO.

Why?

I've often wondered why steals are valued so high. You advance a base. Okay, someone still has to hit the ball in order for it to come to anything.

 

[NAHSTE]

Why?

I've often wondered why steals are valued so high. You advance a base. Okay, someone still has to hit the ball in order for it to come to anything.

Advancing a base directly increases the probability that your team can score runs. Giving your team a 92% chance to advance one base without sacrificing an out is HUGE, especially when you can do it at such a high volume. That success rate + that frequency is unheard of.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Advancing a base directly increases the probability that your team can score runs. Giving your team a 92% chance to advance one base without sacrificing an out is HUGE, especially when you can do it at such a high volume. That success rate + that frequency is unheard of.

:howyadoin:

 

[Slateman]

Advancing a base directly increases the probability that your team can score runs. Giving your team a 92% chance to advance one base without sacrificing an out is HUGE, especially when you can do it at such a high volume. That success rate + that frequency is unheard of.

But it still relies on another teammate to get you, i.e., get an RBI. So the value of that stolen bases is directly related to your teammates ability to get a RBI.

 

[Glenbino]

But it still relies on another teammate to get you, i.e., get an RBI. So the value of that stolen bases is directly related to your teammates ability to get a RBI.

Does the difference between what it takes to have a run score from second base opposed to what it takes to have a run score from first base really have to be explained to you?

You will run 180 feet faster than you run 270 feet every time. Not to mention it totally erases a double play probability.

And its not the total of bases Trout is stealing that I care about its how efficiently he is doing it. Timing pitchers and running fast enough to beat out throws are tangible baseball skills. Coming up to bat with runners on is not.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

But it still relies on another teammate to get you, i.e., get an RBI. So the value of that stolen bases is directly related to your teammates ability to get a RBI.

c'mon, man.

Stealing bases at the success rate that Trout does is a massive advantage. He's 46 out of 50, ffs.

Why don't you disregard all offensive events aside from HR's, since all require a teammate to eventually drive you in?

What you are saying is pretty stupid.

 

[NAHSTE]

But it still relies on another teammate to get you, i.e., get an RBI.

He is increasing the POTENTIAL for runs scoring, regardless of the eventual outcome, he has increased the chances that the run will score. There is quantifiable value being added there. Also, considering Trout leads the league in runs by a sizable margin despite missing the first month, I'd say he's doing just fine having his teammates driving him in.

 

[MVPete]

LOL Angels.

 

[chicubs2003]

Mike Trout as a dual Rookie of the Year/MVP

 

[FedEx227]

But it still relies on another teammate to get you, i.e., get an RBI. So the value of that stolen bases is directly related to your teammates ability to get a RBI.

It adds to the probability of getting a run though. Of course it's still dependent on your teammate to actually drive you in, but with the success rate he has, he's increasing his teams ability to score runs a ton.