Boxing fans unite, James Toney is here to save you!

[Steel Mamba]

On second thought, let's not get into the K1/boxing thing because it's irrelevant. K1 style is completely different from MMA and completely different from boxing. So can't make that comparison.

 

[Liquidrob]

Who in the UFC would beat Toney standing? What great boxers were in K1?

Anyone with a hard leg kick would be rough for Toney, Pat Barry, Hardonk, yes, even Cro Cop, a kick to the body would be brutal

You have have a warped sense of technical stiking and its ability to dominate, even a guy like Kongo would put the clinch on him and knee him to death

boxing has zero answers for kicks, knees, elbows, the thai clinch, etc...

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

i dont think anyone would beat toney standing in a 12 round fight. but who really cares? toney is irrelevant.

 

[Liquidrob]

i dont think anyone would beat toney standing in a 12 round fight. but who really cares? toney is irrelevant.

That wasnt the question

 

[SHOGUN]

Some of the former kickboxers in MMA would stand with Toney and beat him standing, you must have never seen boxers in K-1

:yep:

Boxers aren't used to taking leg kicks and some of those slips would lead right to a knee in the jaw.

What great boxers were in K1?

Not great boxers, but here is a list of some boxers that competed in K-1:

Francois Botha
Butterbean
Arthur Williams
Shannon Briggs
Vince Phillips
Ray Mercer
Kazuhisa Watanabe (active)
Yong Soo Choi

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

That wasnt the question

:fedor2:

 

[Liquidrob]

Oh, c'mon now.

Boxing is probably the worst base you can start with if you are trasitioning to MMA. Wasn't that proven almost 20 years ago?

true, but somewhat unfair

No boxer has reallty committed to MMA training, only KJ Noons, but he was a kickboxer also, and I believe he fought pro MMA first, probably had amatuer fights in boxing and kickboxing though

The only other guy I can remember with a solid boxing background is Jemery Williams, he is 5-0 in MMA but hasnt fought anyone good, dont know if he still fights

I would like to see a guy try younger and get in a real camp, multiple kickboxers have faired well with proper training, no reason a boxer cant but, but like we say the money isnt there yet for these guys to take it seriously

 

[Steel Mamba]

Anyone with a hard leg kick would be rough for Toney, Pat Barry, Hardonk, yes, even Cro Cop, a kick to the body would be brutal

You have have a warped sense of technical stiking and its ability to dominate, even a guy like Kongo would put the clinch on him and knee him to death

boxing has zero answers for kicks, knees, elbows, the thai clinch, etc...

You're assuming that he can't learn how to check kicks? lol. Of course he'll still get hit with something, but what other athlete is there that can withstand more punishment than an elite boxer? The poundings they take are brutal and far worse than MMA. I don't think a kick to the body is going to debilitate the guy.

& there's a big reason why Couture never got into range with Toney. If Kongo is going to clinch with him he has to get in range first.

Again, all of these other fighters with limited backgrounds go through this, I still don't understand why Toney (and boxers) are seemingly the only combat sport athletes who people say are incapable of learning anything MMA related. Wrestlers have learned how to strike, learned how to weather punches, kicks, etc. But, take one of the best boxers and we're talking about how leg kicks are going to be his demise.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

butterbean has some pretty nasty leg kicks for basically just being a boxer

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

LOL...

James Toney v. Antoni Hardonk

MAKE IT HAPPEN!!! BUY RATES EXPLOSSSSSSION!

 

[Liquidrob]

You're assuming that he can't learn how to check kicks? lol. Of course he'll still get hit with something, but what other athlete is there that can withstand more punishment than an elite boxer? The poundings they take are brutal and far worse than MMA. I don't think a kick to the body is going to debilitate the guy.

& there's a big reason why Couture never got into range with Toney. If Kongo is going to clinch with him he has to get in range first.

Again, all of these other fighters with limited backgrounds go through this, I still don't understand why Toney (and boxers) are seemingly the only combat sport athletes who people say are incapable of learning anything MMA related. Wrestlers have learned how to strike, learned how to weather punches, kicks, etc. But, take one of the best boxers and we're talking about how leg kicks are going to be his demise.

We are talking about James Toney here, you seem to think he is a dedicated athlete, he cant even get in shape for his own sport were he still could have been relevant

To check leg kicks he would have to change his stance, you would have to reprogram a guy who has been boxing for probably over 30 years, than you need to condition your shins, it doesnt happen over night, I doubt he even trained for this fight, as soon as Randy took him down he didnt even try to get the guard position, he was floppy like a fish on his back, he had a lot of time to prepare fo this

Look how many boxers tried K-1, you dont think they knew they were going to get leg kicked? lol, none of these old guys want to change

I already posted above this that a boxing can do it and be successful, but I dont see it being James Toney, not saying he cant beat former kickboxers standing, but to say no one in MMA can stand with him is insane IMO

 

[Liquidrob]

Toney by shoulder roll

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meAJfeva0YM&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

[Steel Mamba]

We are talking about James Toney here, you seem to think he is a dedicated athlete, he cant even get in shape for his own sport were he still could have been relevant

To check leg kicks he would have to change his stance, you would have to reprogram a guy who has been boxing for probably over 30 years, than you need to condition your shins, it doesnt happen over night, I doubt he even trained for this fight, as soon as Randy took him down he didnt even try to get the guard position, he was floppy like a fish on his back, he had a lot of time to prepare fo this

Look how many boxers tried K-1, you dont think they knew they were going to get leg kicked? lol, none of these old guys want to change

I already posted above this that a boxing can do it and be successful, but I dont see it being James Toney, not saying he cant beat former kickboxers standing, but to say no one in MMA can stand with him is insane IMO

No, it won't happen over night which is my point. They should give him time to train and give him at least a couple more fights to see how he does. If you admit that it can't happen quickly, then why are you knocking him for being beat by an MMA legend when he had less than a year to train? What did we expect to happen? What would happen to anyone in that situation? Give him the time, he is taking it seriously, so let's see what happens when he has a few years worth of solid training.

Again the K1 thing is irrelevant, K1 isn't MMA, there are different dynamics and styles involved. Plus like I said before who transitioned into K1, Butterbean? C'mon. More importantly what top boxers actually dedicated their selves to K1 and invested multiple years into the sport?

 

[Liquidrob]

No, it won't happen over night which is my point. They should give him time to train and give him at least a couple more fights to see how he does. If you admit that it can't happen quickly, then why are you knocking him for being beat by an MMA legend when he had less than a year to train? What did we expect to happen? What would happen to anyone in that situation? Give him the time, he is taking it seriously, so let's see what happens when he has a few years worth of solid training.

Again the K1 thing is irrelevant, K1 isn't MMA, there are different dynamics and styles involved. Plus like I said before who transitioned into K1, Butterbean? C'mon. More importantly what top boxers actually dedicated their selves to K1 and invested multiple years into the sport?

I already said they should give Toney another fight, I would like to see him fight a guy who stands and strikes, Cro Cop or Barry would be awesome fights IMO

My point is I don't think Toney is that guy, I dont think he is taking it seriously, I may be wrong though

Toney should have not fought Randy, but the word is that Toney asked for Randy, dont know if its true, but if he did than he is stupid

I just think you have a warped view of technical striking and boxing when it comes to a fight, to say no one in MMA can stand and hang with Toney is insane, a lot of guys would, some would beat him because I don't think Toney is dedicated, he is not even dedicated to his own sport, whats make you think he will want to learn how to check kicks, sprawl, retain guard, submission defense, etc...

 

[Steel Mamba]

Because if you take a guy with that type of punching power and accuracy, in MMA gloves, there's no one who could take a clean punch from him. We can sit here and talk about how out of shape he is, but despite that he's still a world class athlete, he still has the athletic ability to be a formidable fighter. Once he adapts he most likely would have the best hands in MMA. So are you going to out strike him? How long can you stand in front of him without getting hit?

 

[Liquidrob]

Because if you take a guy with that type of punching power and accuracy, in MMA gloves, there's no one who could take a clean punch from him. We can sit here and talk about how out of shape he is, but despite that he's still a world class athlete, he still has the athletic ability to be a formidable fighter. Once he adapts he most likely would have the best hands in MMA. So are you going to out strike him? How long can you stand in front of him without getting hit?

my point is, do you think James Toney is taking this serious?

In order to land strikes in MMA you have to be able to defend a takedown, you have to be able to take leg kicks, you have to adapt, I don't think James Toney is the guy

You can rarely be a quality striker in MMA if you have no idea to defend a takedown, you will never let your hands go and be comfortable standing

I always said the next be evolution in MMA will be the skilled boxer who can adapt to the game, but James Toney isnt it, I would like to see him get another chance if he trains for it and be matched against a Striker, not a grappler because he already know the result

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Toney by shoulder roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meAJfeva0YM&feature=player_embedded

Couldnt even hit 1000.. fail.

Mirko would break that machine.

 

[Liquidrob]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OU-hZKoxvA&feature=player_embedded[/ame]