Boxing fans unite, James Toney is here to save you!

[Liquidrob]

from eastsideboxing.com

Toney easily defeated by Couture

By Rob Smith: In James Toney's first fight in the UFC, he was dominated and easily taken out by Randy Couture tonight in the 1st round. Toney was taken down and then wrapped up quickly in a choke that he had no clue how to get out of. Toney then tapped out rather than being choked out. The referee stopped the one-sided match at 3:19. Toney didn't have the wrestling skills to compete. Had this been a stand up fight, he would easily won but MMA is mostly wrestling and submission holds and it takes too long to learn how to beat the better fighters like Couture. Toney never really had a chance because the 47-year-old Couture didn't even try to do any stand up fighting. Instead, Couture took Toney down immediately and then chocked him. Couture is a former Olympic wrestler. Toney never had a chance in this fight if you want to call it that. It's wrestling. This is what Toney gets for trying wrestle with an expert like Couture. It would be interesting to see if Couture would agree to a straight up three round boxing match. My guess he won't even consider it. Toney would slaughter the old guy, as well as other MMA fighter in the sport

 

[Steel Mamba]

I love how Mamba and some boxing fans think boxers have magically KO powers, learn from the past, without TDD its a wrap, they win maybe 1 out of 100 fights against someone with a hint of takedown ability

This isnt rocket science, boxing doesnt give you TTD, it never will

I didn't say all that.. I'd just like to see a top pro boxer get a fair shake, you give them enough time to learn TDD and they can be very dangerous and bring even more excitement to MMA.

pretty sure the ufc just signed toney to a one fight deal... i doubt they would give two shits if he goes somewhere else

It was a multi-fight deal, 3 fight contract I believe. A guy like Toney would bring a lot of attention to SF if they got their hands on him, so probably wouldn't be best to put him on the world stage of MMA and then hand him off to the competition.

Mamba, are you suggesting Randy should have carried Toney for the purpose of entertainment? I thought you hated pro wrestling?

I don't hate pro wrestling, I just don't think elements of it have any place in MMA. So, I don't exactly mean he should have carried Toney. What I'm saying is that if he wanted to put the boxing world on notice and make a loud statement about MMA fighters, then he should have roughed Toney up. He flat out should have beat him up. Going for a TD so early into the fight is what everyone expected, so in the end the fight really made no difference, it ended up being rather pointless. So boxers and boxing fans aren't going to respect that. Now, you bloody the guy up a little and they all have no choice but to respect what happened and in the process you're also delivering an entertaining fight.

To be fair, yes it takes two to tango. It's Toney's fault for allowing Couture to secure that TD, but how much can a guy learn in less than a year? That's why I wish the UFC would give him at least one more fight. Brock drops his first UFC fight with minimal MMA experience and is right back in it against top comp. It was kinda funny tho seeing Toney's rendition of tapping out.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

It was a multi-fight deal, 3 fight contract I believe. A guy like Toney would bring a lot of attention to SF if they got their hands on him, so probably wouldn't be best to put him on the world stage of MMA and then hand him off to the competition.

well of course he would but hes already been exposed as bum who has no business in MMA. just a freakshow, pure and simple. someone needs to ring up James Thompson for Toney. and i highly highly doubt toney is gonna go balls out training trying to get better, unless hes in some serious debt or something.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

Dana White: "We won't be doing any more boxing" after James Toney's UFC 118 loss

You can call it the end of an era.

Granted, that era lasted all of 3 minutes and 19 seconds, but it's still over.

After James Toney (0-1 MMA, 0-1 UFC) was forced to tap out (or wave out, if you choose to be technical) in the first round of his UFC 118 contest with Randy Couture on Saturday night at Boston's TD Garden, White said he's done with boxers making their way to the organization – no matter who it is.

"I thought we answered this question in 1993, but James came out and he picked a fight," White said. "We answered the question again in 2010. I don't think it needs to be answered again. I don't care if it's (Floyd) Mayweather or anybody else."

It was in 1993 that a boxer appeared in the very first UFC event. Art Jimmerson's infamous one-gloved approach to the fight is an iconic image in the history of the sport.

Melton Bowen would later appear at UFC 4, where he was defeated by Steve Jennum.

Toney, of course, is one of boxing's all-time greats. But at 43 years old and 70 pounds heavier than he was at the time his illustrious prizefighting career began, "Lights Out" was simply too advanced in age to begin a real run at mixed martial arts success.

But White says he's not even interested in hiring a top boxer in his prime because single-disciplined fighters simply can't win in MMA.

"It's unfair to bring a guy in with one discipline, no matter if he's trained for eight or nine months," White said. "I wasn't the guy going out there and trying to badmouth boxing and take boxing down and hurt the sport of boxing. James Toney picked a fight, and he got one.

"I don't see [other boxers] ever doing that, coming out and whatever. James Toney is the guy that's crazy enough to come out and do this. He picked a fight, he got one, and we won't be doing any more boxing."

From the very day the fight was announced, White openly called the contest a "freak show." But the UFC boss admitted than even though he felt confident his Hall of Fame fighter would defeat Toney, as Saturday night approached, he became more and more tense.

"I didn't try to sell this thing as 'Tune in on Saturday night, and you're going to see the most spectacular battle or war,'" White said. "I basically said what I was hoping would happen. Anything can happen in a fight.

"We're not after boxing. We're not trying to attack boxing. I love boxing, and I thought this question was answered back in 1993, but I've got to be honest. As we got closer to the fight, my stomach hurt, and I was a little dizzy. I was nervous. Mixed martial arts stepped in there against a boxer, but at the end of the day, it's a fight. Anything can happen in a fight."

Some MMA observers believed a loss for Couture would have been catastrophic for the sport. White said his nervousness was based on something entirely different.

"What was I nervous about?" White asked. "That I'd have to deal with James Toney for the next year.

"It's been a fun ride with James. It's been very interesting. He's a nutty guy. I was nervous for that fight."

White made it clear he didn't want any of his comments regarding Toney to be considered a sign of disrespect. Instead, he held praise for the boxer even though he did duck out an a scheduled appointment at the evening's post-fight presser.

"He's a tough guy, and he's been around for a long time, and I love him," White said. "I have a lot of respect for James Toney. When you come in with one discipline, you can't expect the guy to come in and have great ground work. You know what? He stepped up. He wanted to do it, and he did it.

"He hung in there longer than I thought he would. I'm sure he was as prepared as he could be. Anybody that knows James Toney over the past few years knows that James isn't the most physically fit boxer on the planet. But let me tell you what, when I signed him in my office, he's lost a lot of weight since that day. He took it serious, he went out there, and he gave it a shot."

Nevertheless, that shot missed the mark, and White says he's done with Toney.

"He's the IBA and NABO heavyweight champion," White said. "He's a boxer, and that's what he does."

 

[Rush]

I think KJ Noons would have put up 100x better of a fight than Toney's lard ass did. I am not sure if it was just him promoting the fight, but he did a great job at it. It felt like my team just won the Super Bowl seeing him tap out.

For somebody claiming he was going to knock somebody out for 2-3 months, you would have thought he would have gotten at least 1 punch on him. Publicity stunt or not, Toney looked absolutely helpless.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Dana White: "We won't be doing any more boxing" after James Toney's UFC 118 loss

And that's the big problem I have. Everyone else gets a fair chance except boxers. Dana knows boxers will take the sport over and demand too much money.

Toney sounds like he's still seriously interested in MMA, this was not a one and done for him simply to collect a paycheck.

http://fighthype.com/pages/content8313.html

 

[Liquidrob]

Toney got screwed, but if he asked for Randy first than he screwed himself, Cro Cop, Pat Berry or some other stand up guys would have been good to fight first

Toney should go to Strikeforce and fight Walker, or give him a stand up guy like Shane Del Rosario or Lavar Johnson

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Toney got screwed, but if he asked for Randy first than he screwed himself, Cro Cop, Pat Berry or some other stand up guys would have been good to fight first

Toney should go to Strikeforce and fight Walker, or give him a stand up guy like Shane Del Rosario or Lavar Johnson

Or just stop.

Maybe you can put him against Kimbo so Kimbo could go 2-0 v. former major boxing champions which would undo all of the good Ray Mercer beating Tim Sylvia did for these mopes.

 

[Liquidrob]

Why would Toney stop if he can make money?

He didnt take any damage, you can really fight MMA and not take huge ammounts of damage in most fights, Toney will more than likely loss by sub, so he can string this out

 

[Steel Mamba]

Kimbo is training for boxing now, it'll be interesting to see how the UFC handles Toney's contract. I still don't think they're going to release him. It might be years before Toney is free to fight somewhere else.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And that's the big problem I have. Everyone else gets a fair chance except boxers. Dana knows boxers will take the sport over and demand too much money.

Oh, c'mon now.

Boxing is probably the worst base you can start with if you are trasitioning to MMA. Wasn't that proven almost 20 years ago?

A wrestler or bjj expert can step in with no cross training and be competitive from day 1. A boxer will almost always lose, and look bad doing so.

How many major league fighters came from boxing? Noons? Phil Baroni? Who else? Brad Blackburn? I might be missing someone, but if those are the three best names I can come up with, what does that say?

During the early days in Japan, when they did alot of sport vs. sport fights, only the sumos and freakshow giants did worse than the boxers.

Now if you want to argue that a top level, world class boxer can dominate, I still say no shot. He will never be good enough to consistantly stop takedowns, and the footwork and distance issues would be a problem.

 

[Liquidrob]

Baroni was a high school state champ in wrestling I believe, might have wrestled in college also

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Baroni was a high school state champ in wrestling I believe, might have wrestled in college also

Well then,the list dwindles.

Seriously, there are almost no top level guys who came from boxing. It just doesnt translate. And if you're good, you'll just keep boxing. A good wrestler has nowhere to go after amatuers are done.

 

[BigBucs]

I would doubt that it is completely true if a boxer is able to secure a high level MMA contract. 3-500k+ w/PPV %'s + sponsorships. With that most boxers could make more in MMA. Toney's boxing promoter even said that the UFC will be good payday for Toney, so it's worth him doing. That says a lot, if there was a huge discrepancy in pay Toney most likely wouldn't be doing this. The only guys getting huge pay days are the Floyd's and Pacquiao's of boxing. I'd be shocked if guys like Paul Williams, Chad Dawson, Kelly Pavlik, Cintron, Berto, etc etc are earning more than say Rampage or Shogun. No way. Either way it's really not about the money for most of these guys, it's about passion. If you're at that level in boxing, you've probably been committed to it since you were a kid, so it's going to be hard to pry these guys away from a sport that they love, even if they could get a few extra million.

Now, if you present MMA as a legit opportunity to showcase their boxing skills and prove that they're the best fighter in the world, show them some respect, maybe you interest a few guys here and there.

Im sure all the guys you have mentioned are making more than Rampage and Shogun. Alfredo Angulo just turned down 750k to fight Sergio Martinez....Alfredo fuckin Angulo. Pavlik has had several million plus dollar paydays.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Why would Toney stop if he can make money?

He didnt take any damage, you can really fight MMA and not take huge ammounts of damage in most fights, Toney will more than likely loss by sub, so he can string this out

He won't be making good money anymore. He will get the occasional small lower card pay day for an at-best Strikeforce (more than likely though, a bum freakshow event)...

Be real Roberto...what legit org will bring in Toney after Natural embarrassed him to the point he could make "real" money?

 

[Steel Mamba]

Oh, c'mon now.

Boxing is probably the worst base you can start with if you are trasitioning to MMA. Wasn't that proven almost 20 years ago?

A wrestler or bjj expert can step in with no cross training and be competitive from day 1. A boxer will almost always lose, and look bad doing so.

How many major league fighters came from boxing? Noons? Phil Baroni? Who else? Brad Blackburn? I might be missing someone, but if those are the three best names I can come up with, what does that say?

During the early days in Japan, when they did alot of sport vs. sport fights, only the sumos and freakshow giants did worse than the boxers.

Now if you want to argue that a top level, world class boxer can dominate, I still say no shot. He will never be good enough to consistantly stop takedowns, and the footwork and distance issues would be a problem.

It's only that way because the UFC wants it to be. Of course wrestling is going to reign supreme, it's the only athletes they're bringing into the sport and allowing to develop. It's not about having the best base, that can vary depending on the type of fighters present, so what it comes down to is simply business. The UFC uses wrestling as its' main talent pool, not because it's the best base for MMA, but because it's cheap. It's a small investment to bring wrestlers through the ranks vs the huge amount of money it would cost to start bringing over boxers. That's why they don't do it and there's no other reasoning behind it.

You can't say that there is when there have been a large handful of strikers with 0 ground game in the UFC who've been given a chance, Houston Alexander, Kongo, etc. So when you have guys like that being given an opportunity to fight and develop, you can't tell me boxers have no place in the UFC. You can't tell me that those guys present more upside in the long run than an elite boxer would. They absolutely don't, but they're not earning big pay checks either so they're worth keeping around for a bit. Plus, there's still this stigma of UFC vs boxing and I don't think the UFC wants to cave in and start accepting boxers.

Everyone you mentioned wouldn't count since they're not elite boxers and have not made a name for their selves in that sport. That's like saying Kimbo Slice is going to represent MMA when he boxes, but that's not the case since Kimbo was never a top MMA fighter.

& Everyone has to adjust, period. Whether your background is wrestling, boxing, or BJJ, there are a lot of adjustments to be made. You will not find a single wrestler with less than a years worth of MMA training that would be capable of beating any top contender. So, why should we knock boxing for the same? They need time to develop and learn the nuances of the sport, when there are lower level boxers who have adapted (Noons would fit here) then why should I believe that a superior boxer couldn't adapt as well? The UFC has the opportunity here to allow a top boxer to develop, but they're not going to do it because they have no interest in bringing in boxers (again money issue) and no interest in coinciding with boxing, unlike wrestling or BJJ.


So yes you give Toney the time to learn and he would be dangerous. There's not a single fighter in MMA who could stand with him. Also consider that there are lesser athletes with no wrestling background who were able to build a solid game, then why should I write Toney or any other boxer off already? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Liquidrob]

lol @ 'There's not a single fighter in MMA who could stand with him'

Some of the former kickboxers in MMA would stand with Toney and beat him standing, you must have never seen boxers in K-1

 

[dave]

It's a shame for boxing that an overweight, out of shape 40-something represented the sport in this sham.
This is almost as bad at the time Bobby Riggs (72 years old) challenged Billie Jean King in that exhibition tennis match in the 70s.
Toney reminded me of those 8-year-olds Cosmo Kramer was taking karate with in that episode of Seinfeld.
"But we're all the same skill level, Jerry!" - Kramer

 

[Steel Mamba]

lol @ 'There's not a single fighter in MMA who could stand with him'

Some of the former kickboxers in MMA would stand with Toney and beat him standing, you must have never seen boxers in K-1

Who in the UFC would beat Toney standing? What great boxers were in K1?

 

[Steel Mamba]

Dont say Cro Cop