Boxing fans unite, James Toney is here to save you!

[davie]

Why do you have to be so hateful rob? Is it because a boxer has chosen to get into an MMA fight?

Who do you think would win if this was a boxing match?

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Who do you think would win if this was a boxing match?

Lol what a ridiculous question.

 

[davie]

Lol what a ridiculous question.

Not necessarily, just trying to remind rob of what's going on in the hope that he'll stop being a fag about it.

:turtle:

 

[BigBucs]

BigBucs, where you at?

nflman, JRawlins, can you hear me?

Im here. Of course Im rooting for Toney but I dont think Catoure is stupid enough to try and stand with Toney. If it goes to the ground Catoure wins. If Catoure stands and boxes with Toney for the 1st few minutes he is going to sleep.

Sidenote: Get your trolling ass on.

 

[BigBucs]

rob reverse trolling. They don't care, Toney is old news to them.

Hardly. Toney is an ATG but his lack of dedication put a damper on a great career.

 

[Liquidrob]

Not necessarily, just trying to remind rob of what's going on in the hope that he'll stop being a fag about it.

:turtle:

how am I being a fag? I am a boxing fan, have been a fan longer than MMA, I remember being hyped about Sugar Ray and Hagler, I picked Leonard by the way, I actually just got finished going 10 rounds with the heavy bag at the gym

I just want to see the boxing fans come out of hiding, I am 95% sure Randy wins this fight because I understand combat sports, but part of me wants to see Toney KO him and he can because Randy's chin is shot, I think it would be great for both sports if Toney won, more crossover fans, more arguments, if Randy wins it will just be 'Toney is old, Randy didnt want to stand and fight, a young champ would would do differently' and be the end of it

The boxing community is to quite about this fight, its a fun fight IMO

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I dont think boxing fans are delusional, thats all. Most everyone has a preconceived notion that Randy is just going to take James down right away and win the fight that way. Not much for boxing fans to discuss in that regard.

 

[Steel Mamba]

how am I being a fag? I am a boxing fan, have been a fan longer than MMA, I remember being hyped about Sugar Ray and Hagler, I picked Leonard by the way, I actually just got finished going 10 rounds with the heavy bag at the gym

I just want to see the boxing fans come out of hiding, I am 95% sure Randy wins this fight because I understand combat sports, but part of me wants to see Toney KO him and he can because Randy's chin is shot, I think it would be great for both sports if Toney won, more crossover fans, more arguments, if Randy wins it will just be 'Toney is old, Randy didnt want to stand and fight, a young champ would would do differently' and be the end of it

The boxing community is to quite about this fight, its a fun fight IMO

Toney can KO Randy because he's an elite boxer with great power, wouldn't matter if Randy's chin was the best its' ever been he'd still get KO'd if Toney touches him.

What is shot, as we see with this fight, is the boxing community. It's terrible compared to MMA, it's like comparing the level of excitement in a senior citizen home to a college campus. That's one reason why MMA is so much more fun to follow.

But, I'm really rooting for Toney in this match, I picked him to win admittedly that's mainly me picking with my heart instead of my brain tho. It just pisses me off that Dana, someone who's suppose to be neutral, is going around saying how Toney is going to get his ass kicked and that's exactly what he wants to happen. No fuckin class and no fuckin clue. It's like Dana and the MMA community would rather make an example out of boxers instead of trying to get more to convert into MMA.

Ok, so let's continue to bring in these wrestlers and build them up, place them on such a high pedestal, guys without an ounce of fighting or MMA experience. But, let a real fighter step in and he gets the shaft. Because it's so exciting to watch guys like Koschek and Shields turn MMA into a wrestling exhibition I guess. What people need to realize is that wrestling is nothing more than a SETUP. It's not like boxing, BJJ, kick boxing, muay thai, etc. You can't finish a guy by wrestling him and you can't damage your opponent with wrestling either (unless it's a powerful slam). Wrestling is simply a means to setup some form of offense, and get yourself in adv position to actually deliver some form of offense. But, wrestling itself is not directly an offensive tool. It's ridiculous to me that in a FIGHT, a guy can score points for simply securing a TD even if he did jack squat on the ground and never damaged his opponent. I dunno, to me the whole objective in a fight is to find a way to damage your opponent, anything less is irrelevant.

Yes, obviously wrestling is important, but just because a guy was a D1 AA doesn't always mean he's going to be a great fighter. A great fighter can finish fights and deal damage. At least with a pro boxer we KNOW that he's capable of issuing damage and finishing fights. So it's BS to me, if wrestling is going to be accepted the way it is in MMA, then boxers should receive the same treatment. MMA needs more pro level boxers in the sport.

 

[nflman2033]

Toney is a tough bastard, but its still going to come down to his ground fighting skills really, if he doesn't have any, it won't matter.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Boxing fans have KJ Noons to rally around.

But at the end of the day, why should boxing fans care about a boxer fighting MMA? They like boxing, not MMA. As an MMA fan, and a very casual boxing fan, I don't really pay any attention when MMA fighters box.

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

B.J. Penn - "James Toney is God's Gift to MMA"

(talks about toney at 4:45)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5G8aMuRGQ[/ame]

 

[Steel Mamba]

Boxing fans have KJ Noons to rally around.

But at the end of the day, why should boxing fans care about a boxer fighting MMA? They like boxing, not MMA. As an MMA fan, and a very casual boxing fan, I don't really pay any attention when MMA fighters box.

KJ Noons is not a world class boxer, he hasn't made a name for himself in that sport. Boxing is the only combat sport not properly represented in MMA. We have world champions in BJJ, wrestling, kicking boxing, etc, but no high level Pro Boxers are currently represented.

 

[Liquidrob]

KJ Noons is not a world class boxer, he hasn't made a name for himself in that sport. Boxing is the only combat sport not properly represented in MMA. We have world champions in BJJ, wrestling, kicking boxing, etc, but no high level Pro Boxers are currently represented.

I always said the next big evolution would be a high level boxer close to his prime coming in and tearing it up, could be the Cro Cop of boxing

but it will be awhile because what does it always come down to? money, no reason for any of these guys to make the jump, there is no money in BJJ, wrestling, and even kickboxing (only at the high end) compared to MMA

KJ is representing the boxing style well for now, but like you said, he isnt a high level boxer, but he has been doing boxing and kickboxing since he was a kid

 

[Liquidrob]

Boxing fans have KJ Noons to rally around.

But at the end of the day, why should boxing fans care about a boxer fighting MMA? They like boxing, not MMA. As an MMA fan, and a very casual boxing fan, I don't really pay any attention when MMA fighters box.

yes, but when a MMA guy goes into boxing its on a very low level, if KJ, Diaz, Silva, etc...fought on HBO, Showtime or ESPN I think the MMA community would watch and get behind them

I think Showtime and Strikeforce are dropping the ball on the crossover appeal, Noons and Diaz both would do boxing matches, get them a scrub and put them on Showtime, not a main event, but televised

Showtime should also be pushing a boxer to go to MMA, get them hooked up with a good camp like AKA, they can train with Cormier and Cain, put them on a couple Challengers cards and run with it, pay him pretty good money and see what happenes, tap into the boxing fan base and see who you can get to watch

Japan did this with K-1 and Pro Wrestling and it worked

 

[Liquidrob]

Toney can KO Randy because he's an elite boxer with great power, wouldn't matter if Randy's chin was the best its' ever been he'd still get KO'd if Toney touches him.

What is shot, as we see with this fight, is the boxing community. It's terrible compared to MMA, it's like comparing the level of excitement in a senior citizen home to a college campus. That's one reason why MMA is so much more fun to follow.

But, I'm really rooting for Toney in this match, I picked him to win admittedly that's mainly me picking with my heart instead of my brain tho. It just pisses me off that Dana, someone who's suppose to be neutral, is going around saying how Toney is going to get his ass kicked and that's exactly what he wants to happen. No fuckin class and no fuckin clue. It's like Dana and the MMA community would rather make an example out of boxers instead of trying to get more to convert into MMA.

Ok, so let's continue to bring in these wrestlers and build them up, place them on such a high pedestal, guys without an ounce of fighting or MMA experience. But, let a real fighter step in and he gets the shaft. Because it's so exciting to watch guys like Koschek and Shields turn MMA into a wrestling exhibition I guess. What people need to realize is that wrestling is nothing more than a SETUP. It's not like boxing, BJJ, kick boxing, muay thai, etc. You can't finish a guy by wrestling him and you can't damage your opponent with wrestling either (unless it's a powerful slam). Wrestling is simply a means to setup some form of offense, and get yourself in adv position to actually deliver some form of offense. But, wrestling itself is not directly an offensive tool. It's ridiculous to me that in a FIGHT, a guy can score points for simply securing a TD even if he did jack squat on the ground and never damaged his opponent. I dunno, to me the whole objective in a fight is to find a way to damage your opponent, anything less is irrelevant.

Yes, obviously wrestling is important, but just because a guy was a D1 AA doesn't always mean he's going to be a great fighter. A great fighter can finish fights and deal damage. At least with a pro boxer we KNOW that he's capable of issuing damage and finishing fights. So it's BS to me, if wrestling is going to be accepted the way it is in MMA, then boxers should receive the same treatment. MMA needs more pro level boxers in the sport.

good post, but wrestling does have some finishing moves, they just cant go all the way with them in wrestling competition

see Matt Hughes vs Ricardo, plus front face locks are chokes, some of the head and arm controls can be finishes, the 'twister' is a wrestling guillotine, etc...

but for the most part, I like what Phil Baroni said 'Whats he going to do, wrestle me to death?'

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

KJ Noons is not a world class boxer, he hasn't made a name for himself in that sport. Boxing is the only combat sport not properly represented in MMA. We have world champions in BJJ, wrestling, kicking boxing, etc, but no high level Pro Boxers are currently represented.

Why would a world class boxer ever jump to MMA? The money is better for world class boxers. You can't make any money doing that other stuff. If top level wrestlers or judo practitioners could make big money sticking to their specialty, they would. Wrestlers flock to MMA because if they want to make money in athletics, its the only place to go. Plus it happens to be a great base.

 

[Liquidrob]

They have to get a guy who hasnt hit the big time money yet and maybe he wrestled in high school or something, plus flash some money at him

but the problem with the average boxing fan is they dont care about a fighter until they get to that 'world' level, thats a big difference in MMA and boxing right now, a MMA fan can get hyped over a prelim and undercard fight where as the boxing fan doesnt care besides the real hardcore fan

So if a boxer switches over to MMA and losses, the boxing fan will just say 'blah, he wasnt even that good', they have the most elitist attitude of the combat sports

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

That's because the boxing model sucks. They don't promote or hype anything aside from the main event. Most of the time, Showtime & HBO only show the main event. So why would anyone care about anyone other than the star, when that's all the promoters are telling you that matters? Because of this, I don't so much blame boxing fan for being elitist, I blame boxing for teaching him to be elitist.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Why would a world class boxer ever jump to MMA? The money is better for world class boxers. You can't make any money doing that other stuff. If top level wrestlers or judo practitioners could make big money sticking to their specialty, they would. Wrestlers flock to MMA because if they want to make money in athletics, its the only place to go. Plus it happens to be a great base.

I would doubt that it is completely true if a boxer is able to secure a high level MMA contract. 3-500k+ w/PPV %'s + sponsorships. With that most boxers could make more in MMA. Toney's boxing promoter even said that the UFC will be good payday for Toney, so it's worth him doing. That says a lot, if there was a huge discrepancy in pay Toney most likely wouldn't be doing this. The only guys getting huge pay days are the Floyd's and Pacquiao's of boxing. I'd be shocked if guys like Paul Williams, Chad Dawson, Kelly Pavlik, Cintron, Berto, etc etc are earning more than say Rampage or Shogun. No way. Either way it's really not about the money for most of these guys, it's about passion. If you're at that level in boxing, you've probably been committed to it since you were a kid, so it's going to be hard to pry these guys away from a sport that they love, even if they could get a few extra million.

Now, if you present MMA as a legit opportunity to showcase their boxing skills and prove that they're the best fighter in the world, show them some respect, maybe you interest a few guys here and there.

 

[Liquidrob]

That's because the boxing model sucks. They don't promote or hype anything aside from the main event. Most of the time, Showtime & HBO only show the main event. So why would anyone care about anyone other than the star, when that's all the promoters are telling you that matters? Because of this, I don't so much blame boxing fan for being elitist, I blame boxing for teaching him to be elitist.

Did the UFC hype anything on the undercard? Its Randy vs Toney and BJ vs Edgar, they rarley hype the undercard fighters anymore, its usually the main event and co-main's

Strikeforce only hypes the main eventers also

The difference is the culture, MMA fans want to see a 'good fight', boxing fans for the most part want to see high level boxing, plus boxing is still doing the whole national pride thing, so they get behind someone and go with it

MMA fans go crazy over a slopfest like Korean Zombie vs Garcia, boxing fans would laugh at that fight and call it a bar room brawl