Dan Marino vs Joe Montana

[dave]

dave, are you out of your mind?

He was a 60% career passer (playing much of his career when 60% was still a good benchmark), and threw 420 TD's against 252 INT's.

I might be out of my mind.
And, again, I see him as a top-5 QB of all time.

 

[JBregz]

Me and Bucky already discussed this on the Wisconsin sports forum and came to an agreement that Favre is the greatest QB of all time so we can all sleep well tonight knowing that this thread can come to a close.

 

[FirstTimer]

Unitas is in that same category as a guy like Bart Starr is..

Bull.

Unitas was putting up insane passing seasons for the era in which he played and had numerous seasons that would still stand up now.

He retired in 1973 and despite playing in a very run first league and time still ranks 21st in completions, 15th in attempts, 12th in yards, and 7th in TD's.

Starr doesn't hold up to any of that at all. And it's not even close.

Unitas was a 3 time champion, 10 time probowler, 6 time all pro, and 3 time MVP. His resume more than holds up and shockingly even his stats do, especially when taken into consideration the era in which he played.

Starr isn't even an after thought when discussing Unitas.

My top 3:

Unitas
Manning
Elway

After that..meh...don't really care.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Bull.

Unitas was putting up insane passing seasons for the era in which he played and had numerous seasons that would still stand up now.

He retired in 1973 and despite playing in a very run first league and time still ranks 21st in completions, 15th in attempts, 12th in yards, and 7th in TD's.

Starr doesn't hold up to any of that at all. And it's not even close.

Unitas was a 3 time champion, 10 time probowler, 6 time all pro, and 3 time MVP. His resume more than holds up and shockingly even his stats do, especially when taken into consideration the era in which he played.

Starr isn't even an after thought when discussing Unitas.

My top 3:

Unitas
Manning
Elway

After that..meh...don't really care.

In a watered down league...:smug:

You know what Starr has over Unitas?

Championships in a non-watered down league and passing records in a league that didn't know what a forward pass was, just because you were the first to do it prolifically doesn't make you the best at it, its like the schmucks that try and be cute and rate Don Hutson ahead of Jerry fuckin Rice (SI, farting in your direction)...:smug:

Take Unitas and shove him up your ass. That is what I do to your shit response about Johnny fucking Unitas. I piss on it and I don't even have to FirstTimer it.

I was being nice and saying "hey, lets not include this guy in any of this discussion, it ain't fair"...but here comes FirstTimer trollin with this nonsense...so, I need to be blunt...fuck Unitas, he won some minor league championships and compiled stats against guys that worked at meat packing plants before game time...fuck right off with that Unitas bullshit. Otto Graham defecates all over him. Just a stream of projectile shit...all over.

 

[FirstTimer]

In a watered down league...:smug:

And Starr, in the same watered down league didn't even begin to touch his MVP's All pro', Pro Bowls etc.

He also didn't even begin to approach Unitas' stats in that same "watered down league".

Congrats. Starr played on better Packers teams than Unitas did with the Colts.

I don't understand why you keep trying to say the leagues were different or watered down or not. They played in the same era for nearly the same season. Starr 56-71, Unitas 56-73.


You can take Starr and shove him up your ass. Starr isn't even in Unitas' league when it comes to being ranked as an all-time QB.

I'm convinced now you are drunk because your argument makes no sense.

 

[FirstTimer]

I was being nice and saying "hey, lets not include this guy in any of this discussion, it ain't fair"...but here comes FirstTimer trollin with this nonsense...so, I need to be blunt...fuck Unitas, he won some minor league championships and compiled stats against guys that worked at meat packing plants before game time...fuck right off with that Unitas bullshit. Otto Graham defecates all over him. Just a stream of projectile shit...all over.

Nice irony.

 

[JBregz]

Me and Bucky already discussed this on the Wisconsin sports forum and came to an agreement that Favre is the greatest QB of all time so we can all sleep well tonight knowing that this thread can come to a close.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

And Starr, in the same watered down league didn't even begin to touch his MVP's All pro', Pro Bowls etc.

He also didn't even begin to approach Unitas' stats in that same "watered down league".

Congrats. Starr played on better Packers teams than Unitas did with the Colts.

I don't understand why you keep trying to say the leagues were different or watered down or not. They played in the same era for nearly the same season. Starr 56-71, Unitas 56-73.


You can take Starr and shove him up your ass. Starr isn't even in Unitas' league when it comes to being ranked as an all-time QB.

I'm convinced now you are drunk because your argument makes no sense.

I'm convinced you are stupid because you can't even conceptualize the argument, as it made plenty of sense.

The argument wasn't even proposed as "Starr > Unitas" you fucking twat. It was proposed that we keep Unitas out of the discussion with the big boys at the grown ups table like Starr because they straddle an era that doesn't hold up to contemporary passers in a more complex, deeper, more athletic league where they play against some of the best athletes in the world that are trained like fucking super soldiers...not the 9-5 meat shop workers that comprised some of the roster spots of the leagues that Unitas and Starr played in.

FirstTimer that, slap nuts.

Yeah, go ahead and attempt to compare a regular ole ham'n'egger in Johnny fucking Unitas to the fucking Terminator that is Peyton Manning. Please do. :laughing:

As for Starr, he still has those Super Bowl rings on his fingers. Johnny is worm dirt where the only real gold he's sporting are the crowns on his teeth.

 

[FirstTimer]

The argument wasn't even proposed as "Starr > Unitas" you fucking twat.

Never said it was.

See below for the point I was making...

It was proposed that we keep Unitas out of the discussion with the big boys at the grown ups table like Starr

Except you said Starr won in a "non watered down league"...yet said Unitas' stats were made in a league that was watered down....when they played in the same league at the same time.

Come on drunk Larry. At least try and follow along.


:thumbsdown:

 

[Blick]

Wake me up when the Unitas vs. Starr debate is over.

Moderating FirstTimer, thanks for keeping the thread on topic.

Back on topic, Montana is better than Marino and everyone that has mentioned Joe's days in KC are exactly right. Montana took the Chiefs to the AFC title game with no 1000 yard rusher, no top ten defense, and Willie Davis as his best receiver. Derrick Thomas had only 8 sacks. There was nothing great or special about that team except for the legendary player at QB.

 

[manchild24]

I had a hell of career as a QB, I was 13-1 as JV QB my freshman and sophmore year, then was 2-0 as a junior on varsity until I broke my leg in a car accident, so i had the best win percentage and our team sucked balls. We had a 5'4 WR.

Id put myself in the

Me
Montana
Manning
Brady

 

[nflman2033]

The numbers don't lie. You can say what you want, but Marino was not an overly accurate QB and, like Favre, he threw more INTs than he should have.
At the end of the day, his QB rating is decidedly unremarkable. His HOF status was achieved in his first six years and through volume stats.
The only MVP-level seasons were 1984 and 1994.

you post his stats and say he wasn't as accurate as Brett Favre he threw too many INT's

well look at Favre stats, he had a higher INT% than Marino.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Never said it was.

See below for the point I was making...


Except you said Starr won in a "non watered down league"...yet said Unitas' stats were made in a league that was watered down....when they played in the same league at the same time.

Come on drunk Larry. At least try and follow along.


:thumbsdown:

First off...i don't even remember writing in this thread but kudos to me for great spelling and completely ass fucking you in this ridiculous discussio.

FailTimer at it again. Hows my dick taste?

 

[bucky]

Me and Bucky already discussed this on the Wisconsin sports forum and came to an agreement that Favre is the greatest QB of all time so we can all sleep well tonight knowing that this thread can come to a close.

When did we come to this agreement.

I said GOAT regular season, but average at best in playoffs. Favre isn't even the greatest GB Packer QB of all time. You must have been discussing this with someone else.

 

[bucky]

Bull.

Unitas was putting up insane passing seasons for the era in which he played and had numerous seasons that would still stand up now.

He retired in 1973 and despite playing in a very run first league and time still ranks 21st in completions, 15th in attempts, 12th in yards, and 7th in TD's.

Starr doesn't hold up to any of that at all. And it's not even close.

Unitas was a 3 time champion, 10 time probowler, 6 time all pro, and 3 time MVP. His resume more than holds up and shockingly even his stats do, especially when taken into consideration the era in which he played.

Starr isn't even an after thought when discussing Unitas.

My top 3:

Unitas
Manning
Elway

After that..meh...don't really care.

I agree with Unitas > Starr, but Starr's playoff numbers (and like you said at a time when the league made it difficult to pass) Starr was phenomenal. I'm not talking playoff wins, which Starr certainly had. I'm talking how Starr played in the playoffs. Starr pisses all over Favre in the playoffs. Favre excelled in the regular season. Starr is an all time great. Johnny U is even that much greater.

I LOL at these kids that ignore NFL history like it doesn't exist.

 

[FirstTimer]

First off...i don't even remember writing in this thread

Is this akin to rape victims repressing the memory and "not remembering"?

Moderating FirstTimer, thanks for keeping the thread on topic.

Sorry for discussing the who I feel is the GOAT in a thread that has that overall tone. Should I delete all the posts that mention any QB's other than Montana and Marino?

"On topic" I'm taking Marino 10 times out of 10 over Montana.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Is this akin to rape victims repressing the memory and "not remembering"?


Sorry for discussing the who I feel is the GOAT in a thread that has that overall tone. Should I delete all the posts that mention any QB's other than Montana and Marino?

"On topic" I'm taking Marino 10 times out of 10 over Montana.

No its akin to a rapist blacking out and not remembering he used his dick to stab some chick to death.

Marino over Montana? Unitas the GOAT? You lost.

 

[FirstTimer]

No its akin to a rapist blacking out and not remembering he used his dick to stab some chick to death

Interesting.

Have a case study on the issue?.

Marino over Montana? .

Yep.

I'll always ride with the guy who I feel who has the best overall talent/tools/production for his position. I'll place my bets on talent, tools for the position, and production over "intangibles" more often than not.

Don't like Unitas as the GOAT? Fine. I'll take Peyton manning 100/100 times then over any QB to ever play the game.

Bart Starr in a "non watered down league" and Unitas in a "watered down league" despite playing in the same league at the same time?



You lost.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Marino is closer to Warren Moon than he is to Montana.

Much like your intelligence is closer to a monkey than mine.

Not quite sure where i said Star was in a non watered down league. Im on my phone so i cant look back. Either way you already lost per the the usual in our discussions.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Young may be one of the most underrated great QBs ever.

Youve turned him into the most overrated QB in the discussion.

His best football was before the Super Bowl era...you can't compare Johnny U with Dan Marino...completely different criteria. Unitas is in that same category as a guy like Bart Starr is...you are doing him more of a disservice trying to compare him to the likes of Joe Montana and Dan Marino or even Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Stats don't hold up, the league was much different (watered down pre-merger), etc.

Great QB, but not quite the guy you want to throw into a discussion with far superior passers in a league that developed into a passing one. Just too much to lessen his accomplishments in comparison to guys we are comparing in not just the same era, but similar eras as well. Comparing Dan Fouts and Dan Marino is more comparable than say Starr to Brady.

Bippity boppity boo. Position is as easy to play today as its ever been. You have every play and defensive scenario spoken into your ear. You have CBs who arent allowed to cover your WRs. Your throwing to the best pure athletes on the field. You have 4-5 options on any given play. You cant get hit , your WRs cant get hit before , during , and now after the catch. You have guys behind you who are better at route running and blocking technique than Namaths best WR and Guard.

Leadership , game management , toughness , ball accuracy , and clutch gameplay dont vary as much as people want to think and ESPN tells you over the decades.

Unitas is every bit as good a QB as anyone playing now. Anywhere from 2-5 would be easy as pie to put him in. No.1 wouldnt get that much of an argument.


Bottom line your not going to upgrade a guy because of the talent around him and your not downgrading a guy because he played with great players.
That shit sauce argument was used against Kurt Warner for years. New system tearing up the league , an insane amount of guys making it easy for him to complete wide open passes in 3-5 steps. The guy goes through an injury plague and LULZ! W4rner is da suck told you so! Then he goes to the anus of the NFL and brings a team with the 28th ranked defense and a killer 500 yard rusher to within a play or two of SB victory(( 3tds 112 rating mind you)).
Just like Montana and Elway hes a big F-U to anyone who brings up surrounding talent. Greatness has a way of overcoming and shining regardless.

When Shanahan comes in to Denver and tells Elway and is told theres gonna be changes he begrudgingly says ok and goes and has some of his better seasons. When a 2 time SB coach takes over Miami and says theres going to be changes Marino groans and bitches for 3 years till both he and the coach are gone.


All these pages Im not seeing the pro Marino argument that doesnt involve alternate realities. How can anyone compare anyone to anyone if "what ifs" is the only thing brought up ??


Marino and Favre are very comparable...but not athletically.
Marino was immobile , had a much quicker release and was a far more precise and technical passer. Favre was infinitely more mobile had awkward technique , weird release points , and rarely sat to scan the field.

BUT because of there accomplishments and gun slinger stat results you have no choice but to put those guys in a top 5-10 place on an all time list. But LOL if Im starting a team with any of them or picking either of those above most of the rest when a big game is on the line.