Dan Marino vs Joe Montana

[Esjay]

Did dave really say Jon Kitna is more accurate than Dan Marino?

WAT

 

[manchild24]

I just think we need a better QB for the comparison.

Maybe compare Brady to Montana, instead of Favre.

You know my view, I know yours. No sense keep going back and forth. Have a great day Manchild.

Gotcha. My whole thing is the sports world talks championships as a measuring stick. Yeah Marino but up some big numbers (which have been surpassed and he has no rings) Yeah he had a cannon, but why is he thrown in these conversations as an all-time great. If its because he lead his team to the playoffs 10 tens. fine then stop takling championships as a measuring stick. he did win one MVP Favre won it 3 years in a row, Brady has what 2 or 3 and Im sure Manning has a few.

Hell McNabb McNabb led the Eagles to four consecutive NFC East division championships (2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004), five NFC Championship Games (2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2008), and one Super Bowl if we are talking playoffs.

Id agree with Bucky saying maybe Brady to Montana (their styles are similar and they are winners.) Im guilty too, when people mention Favre I think Streak, Retirement, and his INTs in playoff games, but he probably won just as many games with that wild style.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Nobody remembers the massive wet farts Montana layed in the playoffs multiple times. Nor do they seem to remember that he threw a pass directly into the chest of Lewis Billups which would of sealed up a Bengals W, but Billups dropped the ball. It would have gone done as one of the worst passes in SB history, and changed his entire reputation as this supposed "Mr Perfect" in the clutch. I detailed this stuff in the old Manning thread. Montana has become mythical because of the cultural signifigance of the SB. Of course rings matter. You need at least one to be in the conversation. But it doesn't automatically end the conversation. That's shallow and obtuse.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And again, I'm not even arguing Marino over Montana.

I'm arguing against the lazy QB arguments of "4 rings /thread!!q111!"

Its the baseball equivelent of "138 OPS+ over 122 OPS+, /thread"

 

[manchild24]

Nobody remembers the massive wet farts Montana layed in the playoffs multiple times. Nor do they seem to remember that he threw a pass directly into the chest of Lewis Billups which would of sealed up a Bengals W, but Billups dropped the ball. It would have gone done as one of the worst passes in SB history, and changed his entire reputation as this supposed "Mr Perfect" in the clutch. I detailed this stuff in the old Manning thread. Montana has become mythical because of the cultural signifigance of the SB. Of course rings matter. You need at least one to be in the conversation. But it doesn't automatically end the conversation. That's shallow and obtuse.

I agree, everyone is fed this image/idea of these players. When I think of Montana I think of the pass to Clark in the end zone. Not the three straight first game knock outs, hell i forget he even played for the Chiefs.

I already said my peace on Favre but I didnt realize the guy won three MVPs in a row.

Elway- I just think of the comebacks. But here are some facts I just found on him.

Over his professional career, Elway led Denver to 34 comeback wins in the 4th quarter & overtime, tied for third with Johnny Unitas.[20]

Elway's 148 wins place him second to Brett Favre for career wins among quarterbacks.

Elway was sacked 516 times, second to Favre for most times sacked in NFL history.

Elway's 300 career touchdown passes places him fifth behind Favre, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton and Peyton Manning.

Elway is one of only four quarterbacks to pass for at least 3,000 yards in 12 seasons; Favre, Marino and Manning are the others.

But he has two rings

 

[Senser81]

Nobody remembers the massive wet farts Montana layed in the playoffs multiple times. Nor do they seem to remember that he threw a pass directly into the chest of Lewis Billups which would of sealed up a Bengals W, but Billups dropped the ball. It would have gone done as one of the worst passes in SB history, and changed his entire reputation as this supposed "Mr Perfect" in the clutch. I detailed this stuff in the old Manning thread. Montana has become mythical because of the cultural signifigance of the SB. Of course rings matter. You need at least one to be in the conversation. But it doesn't automatically end the conversation. That's shallow and obtuse.

But thats true of a lot of QBs. No one remembers John Unitas' pitiful performance in the 1964 NFL Championship game, one of the greatest upsets in NFL history. No one remembers Roger Staubach's numerous bad playoff games and mediocre Super Bowls. No one remembers Otto Graham going 2-15 for 20 yards and 2 INTs in the 1953 championship.

Sure, Montana wasn't perfect, but by-and-large he was a great postseason QB.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

f16harm gets a pass...he lives in SoFla where Marino is considered a God and most believe he is the GOAT...trying to argue that Marino wasn't the GOAT is a mission in futility down here because no one listens and it always comes back to the same thing stated in this thread.

"Look at the team Marino was surrounded by!"
"If Marino played there and the other guy here, the other guy wouldn't win shit!"

You know, stupid shit that really has no base to actually have a discussion based upon it.

Marino was good, great even. One of the most talented and gifted passers of all-times. Is he better than say...Dan Fouts (big time stat monster that didn't win shit), yes. Is he better than a guy that won a whole lot but wasn't quite as talented in say...Terry Bradshaw...probably. Is he better than his contemporaries...Joe Montana, John Elway, Brett Favre? No. Is he better than guys who came after him and had more success in Peyton Manning and Tom Brady...no.

Marino can sit safety and call himself a Top 10 QB of all-time...I mean, I wouldn't argue much if you put him in the Top 5, as long as its behind Montana, Elway, Manning and Brady...but best QB of all-time? LOL.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

But thats true of a lot of QBs. No one remembers John Unitas' pitiful performance in the 1964 NFL Championship game, one of the greatest upsets in NFL history. No one remembers Roger Staubach's numerous bad playoff games and mediocre Super Bowls. No one remembers Otto Graham going 2-15 for 20 yards and 2 INTs in the 1953 championship.

Sure, Montana wasn't perfect, but by-and-large he was a great postseason QB.

Is there a better post-season QB? I know Montana had the occasional stinker...but he was, most of the time, on another level when it was a one-and-done situation.

 

[Senser81]

Is there a better post-season QB? I know Montana had the occasional stinker...but he was, most of the time, on another level when it was a one-and-done situation.

Bart Starr was probably the best postseason QB rating-wise, but he didn't play nearly as many games as guys like Montana and Tom Brady.

 

[Bear Pand]

These numbers don't tell the whole story but I'll post them anyway.

Montana's 49ers in playoffs:

122 rushing yards/game. defense allowed 16 ppg

Marino's Dolphins in playoffs:

84 rushing yards/game. defense gave up 26 ppg

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Bart Starr was probably the best postseason QB rating-wise, but he didn't play nearly as many games as guys like Montana and Tom Brady.

I hate discussing QBs that are in or out of the modern era (Super Bowl era)...I can't talk about Otto Graham in the same discussion as Dan Marino...just ridiculously different eras and different criteria. Starr is that one guy that kind of straddles both eras...I typically leave him out when talking about this stuff...but yeah, he was a guy on another level. However, if Montana is getting torn up for having superior talent, and Bradshaw is constantly neglected because of talent, lord knows what people would do to Starr in a real discussion considering the ridiculous offensive line and talent the Packers had in that era.

 

[manchild24]

Is there a better post-season QB? I know Montana had the occasional stinker...but he was, most of the time, on another level when it was a one-and-done situation.

Bart Starr was probably the best postseason QB rating-wise, but he didn't play nearly as many games as guys like Montana and Tom Brady.

Like I said Favre and Montana had pretty similar post season stats other then the Super Bowl victories.Bradys numbers are pretty sick in the 19 post season games.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The most similar player to Favre would be Marino.

 

[manchild24]

The most similar player to Favre would be Marino.

Im just curious what you base that on?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The most similar player to Favre would be Marino.

Yeah, except for the numerous MVP's and Super Bowls.

 

[inthecards21]

I give it to Montana but it is close. But another question to pose, where will manning rank?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I give it to Montana but it is close. But another question to pose, where will manning rank?

I gotz him at 3b right now.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Im just curious what you base that on?

Yeah, except for the numerous MVP's and Super Bowls.

Statistically, and stylistically, they are as similar as it gets.

Comparing Favre & Montana doesn't make sense to me, im with bucky on that. Favre is in the Marino mold. Big stats, big arm, big balls. Montana was not a gunslinger. He played within a system that emphasised short, quick, accurate passing.

Farve was a lot more like a Marino, Fouts, Namath style of QB.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

These numbers don't tell the whole story but I'll post them anyway.

Montana's 49ers in playoffs:

122 rushing yards/game. defense allowed 16 ppg

Marino's Dolphins in playoffs:

84 rushing yards/game. defense gave up 26 ppg

Don't you know none of this matters? Just plop the right QB in place, and collect the rings. They do it all alone. Total induvidual accomplishment.

Vinitieri makes a bunch of clutch kicks, so Brady is the ultimate winner. Top 5, baby. Had Vinitieri missed those kicks, Brady is Jim Kelly. Choke artist. Loser.

Aren't we more sophisticated than that?

 

[Bear Pand]

I dont even have a dog in the fight. Marino and Montana were playing in the SB against each other before I was born. I came in here expecting to see people giving reasons why one was better than the other. Looking at each guy's strengths/weaknesses. Instead you get these basic rings arguments. I could tell you who had more rings just looking at wikipedia or nfl.com, w/o even watching a single play. I want to know who was better and why.