Dan Marino vs Joe Montana

[dave]

I don't deny Marino is a top-5 QB of all time. But if I'm a coach and it's the Super Bowl and I'm asked to pick one - it's Montana. Sorry. But Montana is a proven winner. Yes Marino has a better arm, quicker release, etc... but in a championship game, I want the champ.

And as John Cena might say "the ... champ ... is ... here!"

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Honestly, Montana. Hell he almost got the Chiefs into the Super Bowl when he was washed up.

Marino would never have been accurate enough for Walsh and simply wasn't a closer.

Niners dont win 4 with Marino. Especially not the first 2.
Montana wins at least one with the Dolphins.

Marino is the most accurate passer Ive ever seen. Aikman/Manning only guys in the convo. WCO would have been a breeze but he was never ever able to contain himself or go too long without trying for big passes. Walsh would have done a better job of forcing him into the system but frankly Montana was the perfect fit. Marino was really self centric early in his career and I cant see him not constantly butting heads about dink and dunk playcalls.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Broncos team defensive rankings for the 5 SB years:

9
9
1
6
8

Number of 1,000 yard rushers Elway played with:

8

Number of 2,000 yard rushers Elway played with:

1

Again, playing devil's advocate here, but I just hate the "this guy was a winner!" argument as the basis of any comparison. There is always more to the story. Marino never played for the complete teams that Elway or Montana did.

 

[Villain]

But rings are a factor.

/Just sayin.

 

[JeremyHight]

I did this a long time ago when comparing Montana to Manning, but look at the QB Rating of each person in the regular season and the playoffs. When guys like Manning and Marino have their QB Rating go down by in some cases double digits while Montana's goes up 6 points, it is a clear sign that some people have "it" and some people don't.

Montana won't have the regular season numbers of Manning or Marino, but the guy was rarely the reason why his team lost. He did everything he could, stepped up his game when it counted most, and surprise surprise, he is the best QB ever.

 

[dave]

Marino is the most accurate passer Ive ever seen.

You're kidding, right?
There are five or six active QBs right now who are more accurate than Marino.
Brees, Manning, Brady, hell even Jon Kitna.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...null&statisticCategory=PASSING&qualified=true

I'm not saying they're better than Marino, but to say he's the most accurate QB you've ever seen? Really?

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

Rings are part of the argument, not the end of the argument.

Dolphins team defense rankings for each year of his career:

7
19
23
26
26
26
24
7
25
10
20
19
16
17
26
3
5

The number of 1,000 yard rushers Marino played with in his career:

1

Marino didnt play on a team with a 1,000 yard rusher until 1996. He retired in 1999.

I'm not saying Marino was better. What im saying is simplifying the argument to rings is lazy and stupid, yet so typical of any QB debate.

Nice stat relay

More devil's advocate...

Who do you think would have won more rings...

Marino with Montana's 49ers, or Montana with Marino's Dolphins?

Montana with Marino's Dolphins would not of won a single ring, and Marino with the 49ers wins 4-6 EASY...

RINGS are NOT everything in football, maybe basketball it's more realistic, but football is different. I don't even like Marino due to one of my best friends being a diehard Phins fan, but are you fucking kidding me asking who is the better QB? Who has the better legacy? Montana hands down, who was the better QB? I'll take Dan Marino throwing to people who maybe 2-3 people on this site can name. Honestly, without google, I don't see you guys naming any of his receiving corps from any given year, naming his defenses, RB's. Now I'll be waiting for Aso to pull up his in depth google searched stats so he can feel like he knows something....






Marino was the better QB, I won't even be ignorant and say I don't understand how you can argue it, even tho I do feel that way, but if you are talking about this from a single player single position and how they executed their position on a consistent basis on an exceptionally high level then it has to be Marino.

This is pretty close to saying Peyton Manning or Joe Montana.... Peyton did get a ring, he doesn't have the hardware that Joe does, but are any of you stupid enough to say Montana was a better QB than Manning? Montana was great, an excellent QB, I have a ton of respect for him, but don't sit here and be ignorant and disrespect Manning or Marino, a single player on a team in the ultimate team sport.

By this logic Terry Bradshaw is a top 2-5 QB all time.... I mean... he has the rings...right?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

More devil's advocate...

Who do you think would have won more rings...

Marino with Montana's 49ers, or Montana with Marino's Dolphins?

Who cares...we work with what is tangible...not fantasy shit like this.

QB is the most important position on the field...he takes the credit for wins, just like losses.

So, when a QB wins a ring...its important, and its expounded on and emphasized because its tangible, especially when you are dealing with players of, generally, equal accolades. When all things are generally equal (in this case, two Hall of Fame QBs), you need to show things that are different between the two cases...

Criteria #1 has been and will always be, winning at the highest level. Joe Montana did. Dan Marino didn't.

Montana > Marino.

Fin.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Nice stat relay



Montana with Marino's Dolphins would not of won a single ring, and Marino with the 49ers wins 4-6 EASY...

RINGS are NOT everything in football, maybe basketball it's more realistic, but football is different. I don't even like Marino due to one of my best friends being a diehard Phins fan, but are you fucking kidding me asking who is the better QB? Who has the better legacy? Montana hands down, who was the better QB? I'll take Dan Marino throwing to people who maybe 2-3 people on this site can name. Honestly, without google, I don't see you guys naming any of his receiving corps from any given year, naming his defenses, RB's. Now I'll be waiting for Aso to pull up his in depth google searched stats so he can feel like he knows something....






Marino was the better QB, I won't even be ignorant and say I don't understand how you can argue it, even tho I do feel that way, but if you are talking about this from a single player single position and how they executed their position on a consistent basis on an exceptionally high level then it has to be Marino.

This is pretty close to saying Peyton Manning or Joe Montana.... Peyton did get a ring, he doesn't have the hardware that Joe does, but are any of you stupid enough to say Montana was a better QB than Manning? Montana was great, an excellent QB, I have a ton of respect for him, but don't sit here and be ignorant and disrespect Manning or Marino, a single player on a team in the ultimate team sport.

By this logic Terry Bradshaw is a top 2-5 QB all time.... I mean... he has the rings...right?

Then why do they play the game?

This post on the whole is shit, but its late and I don't feel like FirstTimer'ing it.

 

[dave]

Most of the guys arguing this weren't old enough to even see these guys play.
I was 17 when Dan Marino was a rookie.
Marino a great QB, no doubt, but I take the winner every day and twice on Sunday.

 

[dave]

By this logic Terry Bradshaw is a top 2-5 QB all time.... I mean... he has the rings...right?

Terry Bradshaw one of the most underrated winners of all time. I suspect his buffoon TV act doesn't help.
Yes, those Steelers teams were awesome ... but the don't win without a damn good QB.
I know, you'll point to Trent Dilfer and the Ravens, but Bradshaw has more than one ring.

 

[red33]

im not as knowledgable as you guys but....

cant we credit some of D stats to the QB? If Montana was that good in the WCO eating clock wouldnt this make the D better? More rest? More time to adjust?

Now for Marino, dont have to much insight on him, lets say he was more of a deep pass QB wouldnt put more pressure on his D? Less time to rest etc.


I understand there are 2 units, maybe 3 i guess, in football but they arent independent of each other.

also if we can get a stat that shows scoring % to show if the other offense was also constantly under pressure to score as well, thus leading to more mistakes, thus elading to more wins, etc etc

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

Then why do they play the game?

This post on the whole is shit, but its late and I don't feel like FirstTimer'ing it.

The difference is your "winner" that people are talking about did it with a hall of fame/all pro team, while your "loser" (Who still gets credit as being a great QB, just not a real winner) gets the shaft because the Dolphins have NEVER been a quality drafting team, big player in FA, or a team that pays to re-sign the few quality Vets that do come into town. I understand, QB's take blame for wins and losses, that argument is a whole 'nother thread, but if Joe gets all the credit for his rings... what did Clark do? and Rice? Lott? Craig? Cross? Taylor? Haley? Romanowski? The list goes on, did they do nothing?

 

[dave]

The difference is your "winner" that people are talking about did it with a hall of fame/all pro team, while your "loser" (Who still gets credit as being a great QB, just not a real winner) gets the shaft because the Dolphins have NEVER been a quality drafting team, big player in FA, or a team that pays to re-sign the few quality Vets that do come into town. I understand, QB's take blame for wins and losses, that argument is a whole 'nother thread, but if Joe gets all the credit for his rings... what did Clark do? and Rice? Lott? Craig? Cross? Taylor? Haley? Romanowski? The list goes on, did they do nothing?

Every time I read a quote from you OOBL, I suspect you're just another wigger. I could live with wiggers if they presented a cogent argument, but my guess is you're just a wigger. Your sideways cap and grooming habits kill your credibility. That said, I love you nonetheless. You're a big Madden online dude like me.

 

[Bear Pand]

I did this a long time ago when comparing Montana to Manning, but look at the QB Rating of each person in the regular season and the playoffs. When guys like Manning and Marino have their QB Rating go down by in some cases double digits while Montana's goes up 6 points, it is a clear sign that some people have "it" and some people don't.

Question then.

Brady is considered by many to be the clutchest QB of this generation. But he has a steeper QB rating dropoff, reg season to postseason than Manning. His QB ratings drops 9.4 points while Manning's only drops 6.5. So does Manning have "it" more so than Brady does?

Sidenote: Kurt Warner has a bigger jump than Montana. Montana goes up 6 points, Warner goes up 9. Warner only has 13 playoff games to Montana's 23 though.



Also, ranking QBs based on how many rings they won is not a good argument, it just became standard somehow so people roll with it. Stop giving individuals credit for team accomplishments.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

1) Elway
2) The Field

:yep:

Elway = GOAT

 

[nflman2033]

W2BTD is saying everything I think about this, and doing it better. I think in the end I still vote Montana, but it's not this big time no brained bullshit, I have been arguing for years that people give qb's too much credit for super bowl wins, yes its important, but its still a team statistic. It's as overrated as wins are for determining how good a pitcher is in baseball.

 

[Senser81]

im not as knowledgable as you guys but....

cant we credit some of D stats to the QB? If Montana was that good in the WCO eating clock wouldnt this make the D better? More rest? More time to adjust?

Now for Marino, dont have to much insight on him, lets say he was more of a deep pass QB wouldnt put more pressure on his D? Less time to rest etc.


I understand there are 2 units, maybe 3 i guess, in football but they arent independent of each other.

also if we can get a stat that shows scoring % to show if the other offense was also constantly under pressure to score as well, thus leading to more mistakes, thus elading to more wins, etc etc

I've never bought the "no rest" idea, because its the defense's job not to remain on the field for long stretches of time. I do think that if a team controls the ball and has several 7-8 minute drives, this leads to lower-scoring games and will make the defense look better, albeit superficially, because they aren't giving up a lot of points.

I think the biggest way an offense can effect their own defense is if they turn the ball over and give the opposing team a short field.

I think Montana helped his team because he could avoid turnovers and sacks despite throwing the ball a lot. Marino threw more INTs, but that might have just been a product of Miami's offensive philosophy (more deep throws, more throws to the WRs, less reliance on the RBs).

 

[manchild24]

I hate the both of them for various reasons, thats besides the point. What I cant stand is how everyone talks about being a great QB you need to win a super bowl (yeah I know Dilfer and some of the guys who won one dont belong on the same field with these guys). Well Marino has ZERO. But then when they compare the QBs of today they compare them to the greats like Elway, Marino and Montana. Which is it already? Every one of Marino's records has been broke except for yards in a season and Brees missed that by like 16 yards. I just dont get it.

I personally think Favre (who Im not a fan of either) vs Montana would be a better arguement right now. Favre atleast has a ring and holds more records. What will be an even better conversation will be Manning vs Montana.

 

[Senser81]

I forgot the number but Marino laid eggs in the playoffs numerous times against teams the Dolphins had beaten thoroughly in the regular season.

I think this shows the genius of Don Shula. He could get inferior talent to win consistently in the regular season, but sometimes his luck ran out in the postseason. Reasons for Miami losing in the postseason include injuries that showed their lack of depth, going up against superiorly talented opponents in successive weeks, and teams being able to prepare solely for the Dolphins.

For example, the 1984 Dolphins somehow went 14-2 but they were probably an 8-8 team at best. Marino was terrific, they had a good o-line with Stephenson and Newman, but their skill position players were average. On defense, Shula did it with smoke and mirrors. At a time when most defenses had a majority of black players to combat the speedy passing attacks of the era, the Dolphins started 8 white guys. Their best player, AJ Duhe, was hurt at midseason. They had possibly the worst set of LBs in the entire league. Brudzinski was good, but the other 3 were terrible (Jay Brophy, Mark Brown, Charles Bowser). If you remember in the Super Bowl against the Niners, the Niners didn't even have to do anything on offense. Montana would throw dump-offs to his RBs, and they would outrun Miami's LBs for 20-30 yards each time. If that didn't work, Montana would just run out of the pocket and get 20 yards before the LBs could catch up to him.