Dan Marino vs Joe Montana

[FirstTimer]

Not quite sure where i said Star was in a non watered down league.

You know what Starr has over Unitas?

Championships in a non-watered down league

:thumbsdown:

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I'll always ride with the guy who I feel who has the best overall talent/tools/production for his position. I'll place my bets on talent, tools for the position, and production over "intangibles" more often than not.

Barry/Sayers/Jackson , Jimmy Johnson/Deion Sanders, Derrick Thomas , Jon Ogden ,Moss/Owens, Bruce Smith.

Are these guys also your GOAT ?
Except for Bo they are all in the discussion and in top 10 at there positions I would assume they are in your top 1-3 based strictly on overall talent and tools.


While I whole heartedly disagree as I believe intangibles are the biggest seperator in a league where talent difference is (_) about that much. At least youve given clear criteria and your decisions make sense based on that.

I just hope you dont end up with Mike Mamula , and Ryan Leaf over Jared Allen and Tony Romo.:kiss:

 

[FirstTimer]

Barry/Sayers/Jackson , Jimmy Johnson/Deion Sanders, Derrick Thomas , Jon Ogden ,Moss/Owens, Bruce Smith.

Are these guys also your GOAT ?
Except for Bo they are all in the discussion and in top 10 at there positions I would assume they are in your top 1-3 based strictly on overall talent and tools.

You left out the production part of my criteria...Why? I can only assume to try and "trap" me in some BS about Mike Mamula over Reggie White....but production to me is very important....which is why I listed it. Those criteria weren't listed in any real order. I try to evaluate them as three equal parts as best I can.

For RB Walter is my GOAT.....simply so I can keep Jim Brown at FB.

:smug:


For example: Give me a team with Manning at QB, Payton at RB, Brown at FB, Moss and Rice at WR, DT and LT rushing the passer, Bruce Smith at one DE spot along with Reggie White at the other..yeah...I'm liking my chances.

I haven't sat down to make and "All-time team" in some time. But maybe I will..again. 3-4 or 4-3 defense KOF?

 

[dave]

you post his stats and say he wasn't as accurate as Brett Favre he threw too many INT's

well look at Favre stats, he had a higher INT% than Marino.

I didn't say Favre was more accurate.

 

[FirstTimer]

I didn't say Favre was more accurate.

You did say/allude to the fact that Kitna was though..........

:crutch:

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

You left out the production part of my criteria...Why? I can only assume to try and "trap" me in some BS about Mike Mamula over Reggie White....but production to me is very important....which is why I listed it. Those criteria weren't listed in any real order. I try to evaluate them as three equal parts as best I can.

In these comparison theres noone without production. One guy produces 48 tds the other 4 tds and MVP in a SB. Youd assume both are physically capable of doing what the other can. The intangibles and how they displayed them is what weighs most when guys are so similar in "greatness".

Physical tools rarely tell the whole story..even with WR/CB where it weighs in the heaviest it doesnt. Aikman would be ahead of Montana. Much better tools , more physically gifted than either Marino or Montana. He also produced 3 rings.
Until you look at intangibles and look at how he struggled when Irvin/Emmitt experienced drop off , and was never truly able to be a gun slinger you wont see the difference IMO.

For RB Walter is my GOAT.....simply so I can keep Jim Brown at FB.

:smug:

You take Payton , I take Emmit , We thumb wrestle for Brown at FB ??

For example: Give me a team with Manning at QB, Payton at RB, Brown at FB, Moss and Rice at WR, DT and LT rushing the passer, Bruce Smith at one DE spot along with Reggie White at the other..yeah...I'm liking my chances.

I haven't sat down to make and "All-time team" in some time. But maybe I will..again. 3-4 or 4-3 defense KOF?

LT/Thomas/Lambert/Butkus/Ham/Singletary/Nitscke/Lanier

Lilly/White/Smith/Deacon/Greene/Olsen

What combo give you the best core ????

I like the flexibility of 3-4. LT/Thomas rushing every down over White/Smith despite what stats say.

 

[dave]

People were talking simply numbers, so I pointed out that Jon Kitna's pass completion % this year was better than Marino's during any season ... making the whole Marino is the greatest because of his numbers moot IMO.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

People were talking simply numbers, so I pointed out that Jon Kitna's pass completion % this year was better than Marino's during any season ..

You were responding to me. I never put up or claimed numbers. I was and continue to refer to a QBs ability to put a ball where it needs to be.
Marino and Aikman could probably hit tin cans off a dummies head 50 yards away every down.

Comp% you end up talking about Wrs...coverage..system... etc.
Even if I was talking numbers his comp% for that era , in that system is no reason to being up a name like Kitna (wtf)

Marino was also one of the best at avoiding the rush and side stepping a blitzer. I hope noone brings up Tavares Jacksons rushing stats to tell me his pocket presence was better.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

People were talking simply numbers, so I pointed out that Jon Kitna's pass completion % this year was better than Marino's during any season ... making the whole Marino is the greatest because of his numbers moot IMO.

First of all, completion percentages on a whole are higher now for a variety of reasons. Not to mention that I am failing to see how Jon Kitna having a high completion percentage in a given year nullifies the statistics of one of the two or three most statistically impressive QB's of all time.

That's like saying Ben Zobrist had a higher batting average last year than Mickey Mantle ever had in any single season. Who gives a shit? What does that prove?

 

[JBregz]

When did we come to this agreement.

I said GOAT regular season, but average at best in playoffs. Favre isn't even the greatest GB Packer QB of all time. You must have been discussing this with someone else.

It was a joke you old fucking coon now just roll with it.. :smug:

 

[dave]

Marino was also one of the best at avoiding the rush and side stepping a blitzer.\

Absolutely.
Quickest release I've ever seen. I grew up a Buffalo Bills' fan (Buffalo was our American channel). Bruce Smith hated Marino.

 

[Saluki]

The ring isn't the whole argument, but when thats the GOAL of these guy's career, to win a ring, it's hard to not judge them by it. Even Marino says he'd trade his HOF for a superbowl. How can we not measure players by championships, when it's often how they measure themselves?

 

[FirstTimer]

The ring isn't the whole argument, but when thats the GOAL of these guy's career, to win a ring, it's hard to not judge them by it. Even Marino says he'd trade his HOF for a superbowl. How can we not measure players by championships, when it's often how they measure themselves?

I'm also pretty sure if you asked Dan Marino if he feels Trent Dilfer was a better QB than him he'd start laughing his ass off.

 

[Saluki]

I'm also pretty sure if you asked Dan Marino if he feels Trent Dilfer was a better QB than you he'd start laughing his ass off.

yeah, but ask him about montana and i bet he gets real quite.

 

[f16harm]

yeah, but ask him about montana and i bet he gets real quite.

I don't think he'd quite, but he might become quiet.


Anyone stating Marino's accuracy wasn't top notch is a fucking moron, plane and simple. He made a living threading passes over the middle and deep down the field between safeties and corners. He didn't run some dink and dunk WCO shit. I'm just saying though....

 

[FirstTimer]

yeah, but ask him about montana and i bet he gets real quite.

Why would he? Montana played on vastly superior teams why should he or any of us be surprised he ended up with more rings?

 

[Prodigal Son]

I don't think he'd quite, but he might become quiet.


Anyone stating Marino's accuracy wasn't top notch is a fucking moron, plane and simple.

I don't think they're planes, but they might be plain.

 

[f16harm]

I don't think they're planes, but they might be plain.

touche


Made in 2000, after both had retired. Notice his "average" accuracy (listen to commentary at 3:22 mark). Oh, and look who the coach is who is talking about him and breaking down his play
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM7i36GHtv8[/ame]

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

It's hilarious that dave, as an Eagles fan, watched McNabb for all of those years and thinks Marino isnt accurate. You would think he could recognize someone who struggled with accuracy.

The Eagles should have signed Jimmy Rollins to catch all of those short hops.

 

[dave]

It's hilarious that dave, as an Eagles fan, watched McNabb for all of those years and thinks Marino isnt accurate. You would think he could recognize someone who struggled with accuracy.

The Eagles should have signed Jimmy Rollins to catch all of those short hops.

I've always liked McNabb and always will, but I'm the first to recognize he's not an all-time great.
I do, however, think he's under appreciated for his body of work in Philadelphia.