Dwight Howard Will Enter Free Agency (:shock:)

[Realist]

At least he's honest. Now Orlando has a year to prepare for his departure.
There's no doubt they have to trade him. And, let's be fair, is Dwight Howard so great that he deserves this much attention?
Howard a very good player, no doubt, but is he really elite?

The NBA is a perimeter game now. Dominant centres are nice, but don't win championships. The rule changes have changed the game from the Ewing-Olajuwon-Shaq eras.
I don't deny he is an elite centre, low-post player ... but those guys don't win championships in this era.

Which way are you going to go with this argument Dave??

Dwight a complimentary piece? Are you serious? I'd love to keep that complimentary piece in Orlando and build around that. The only thing Orlando needs is a nice perimeter player, and guys who play D every night. They had that in a guy like Petrius and a nice backup in Gortat. They should have just made a slight tweak to last years team, instead they overhauled and it blew up in their face.

As of now, the only thing they can do, is trade Howard. I see no way he's coming back to Orlando. Get what you can from him and start over. I don't want this to be another Shaq situation uke2:

 

[CrimsonGhost56]

:knubb:

 

[Rayman]

Stop burying yourself, dave.

I'll take Dwight Howard on the Knicks any day over any player on this roster with the exception of Carmelo Anthony (and I'd have to think long and hard about that one). He makes that much of a difference.

 

[Bmore]

Maybe Chris Paul and Dwight Howard will take there talents to the same team. :shifty:

 

[ralaw]

In today's game Howard is an elite center, but that really isn't saying much considering the only other decent centers are Bynum, Lopez, Horford, Noah etc. Other than Bynum not many of those guys have any upside. Don’t get me wrong, all of those guys are decent to above average, but none of them are anywhere near the caliber of Howard. IMO if Howard played in the early 90's he'd be behind Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing. Granted all of those guys are HOFers.

Dave does have a point though. The game has changed, so low-post players don't have the importance they use to unless they’re surrounded by the right players. Orlando certainly doesn’t and never has had the right players around Howard. Once Boston figured them out (single cover Howard, stay on the shooters) the team was toast. I like Van Gundy, but they could use a better offensive philosophy around Howard. Boston and Atlanta this year proved in the playoffs that Howard can get his 30+ points and 15+ rebounds and the Magic will still lose.

 

[Realist]

In today's game Howard is an elite center, but that really isn't saying much considering the only other decent centers are Bynum, Lopez, Horford, Noah etc. Other than Bynum not many of those guys have any upside. Don’t get me wrong, all of those guys are decent to above average, but none of them are anywhere near the caliber of Howard. IMO if Howard played in the early 90's he'd be behind Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing. Granted all of those guys are HOFers.

Dave does have a point though. The game has changed, so low-post players don't have the importance they use to unless they’re surrounded by the right players. Orlando certainly doesn’t and never has had the right players around Howard. Once Boston figured them out (single cover Howard, stay on the shooters) the team was toast. I like Van Gundy, but they could use a better offensive philosophy around Howard. Boston and Atlanta this year proved in the playoffs that Howard can get his 30+ points and 15+ rebounds and the Magic will still lose.

That's why every Magic fan has been yelling for a "young" VC or TMac type player to compliment Howard. The way the offense stands, it's give the ball to Howard and everyone stands on the perimeter and wait for the kick out. None of the current guys move without the ball.

Like you, I think it's more gameplan then anything. JRich was having a career year in Phx and then falls off in Orlando? I know he had Nash but SVG did not utilized him the way he should

 

[dave]

In today's game Howard is an elite center, but that really isn't saying much considering the only other decent centers are Bynum, Lopez, Horford, Noah etc. Other than Bynum not many of those guys have any upside. Don’t get me wrong, all of those guys are decent to above average, but none of them are anywhere near the caliber of Howard. IMO if Howard played in the early 90's he'd be behind Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing. Granted all of those guys are HOFers.

Dave does have a point though. The game has changed, so low-post players don't have the importance they use to unless they’re surrounded by the right players. Orlando certainly doesn’t and never has had the right players around Howard. Once Boston figured them out (single cover Howard, stay on the shooters) the team was toast. I like Van Gundy, but they could use a better offensive philosophy around Howard. Boston and Atlanta this year proved in the playoffs that Howard can get his 30+ points and 15+ rebounds and the Magic will still lose.

Howard doesn't have the offensive game Olajuwon, Robinson or Ewing had. He's a dunker and a monster in the low post, but take him out of the low post and he's a non-entity.
That, in a nutshell, is why I don't consider him the #1 option in a championship menu. He needs to diversify his offensive game IMO.
I know some people will bring up Shaq, but Shaq's offensive numbers in his prime were far superior to Howard's.

 

[ralaw]

That's why every Magic fan has been yelling for a "young" VC or TMac type player to compliment Howard. The way the offense stands, it's give the ball to Howard and everyone stands on the perimeter and wait for the kick out. None of the current guys move without the ball.

Like you, I think it's more gameplan then anything. JRich was having a career year in Phx and then falls off in Orlando? I know he had Nash but SVG did not utilized him the way he should

A young McGrady/Carter would mean that they can get an elite top 5 wing player, which is easier said than done. With the trade for Arenas and Richardson it seemed they were hoping either one of them could be that guy, but both of them are past those days. Orlando does a good job of getting once great perimeter players past their prime. If they can’t get Chris Paul they should go after Monta Ellis.

 

[ralaw]

Howard doesn't have the offensive game Olajuwon, Robinson or Ewing had. He's a dunker and a monster in the low post, but take him out of the low post and he's a non-entity.
That, in a nutshell, is why I don't consider him the #1 option in a championship menu. He needs to diversify his offensive game IMO.
I know some people will bring up Shaq, but Shaq's offensive numbers in his prime were far superior to Howard's.

Howard has gotten much better with his post moves and even has developed a little short jumpshot, but you’re right offensively he’s nowhere near the offensive players Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing were. In his prime Shaq was an absolute monster and Howard certainly isn’t anywhere near that caliber. He’s good, but he’s not as dominant as Shaq was.

IMO it says something when teams are willing to single cover Howard and let him get his and still feel as if they can win a playoff series. I couldn’t see teams doing that against Olajuwon, Robinson or Ewing.

 

[Realist]

A young McGrady/Carter would mean that they can get an elite top 5 wing player, which is easier said than done. With the trade for Arenas and Richardson it seemed they were hoping either one of them could be that guy, but both of them are past those days. Orlando does a good job of getting once great perimeter players past their prime. If they can’t get Chris Paul they should go after Monta Ellis.

I didn't mean someone in their prime like them(superstar wise). I meant someone on their level athletically who can score from the perimeter and get his own shot. I used those 2 because they are former magic. One would think JRich would be that way but it doesn't seem like they want him to be used that way.

I agree. I said in another thread that I'd love for them to get Ellis. If not, all we can bank on is, resigning Richardson and hope Arenas can be at least 80% of what he use to be..

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

In today's game Howard is an elite center, but that really isn't saying much considering the only other decent centers are Bynum, Lopez, Horford, Noah etc. Other than Bynum not many of those guys have any upside. Don’t get me wrong, all of those guys are decent to above average, but none of them are anywhere near the caliber of Howard. IMO if Howard played in the early 90's he'd be behind Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing. Granted all of those guys are HOFers.

Dave does have a point though. The game has changed, so low-post players don't have the importance they use to unless they’re surrounded by the right players. Orlando certainly doesn’t and never has had the right players around Howard. Once Boston figured them out (single cover Howard, stay on the shooters) the team was toast. I like Van Gundy, but they could use a better offensive philosophy around Howard. Boston and Atlanta this year proved in the playoffs that Howard can get his 30+ points and 15+ rebounds and the Magic will still lose.

I actually think Orlando had the right team in place (minus a tweek or two, mvoing Vince for another wing), but they REALLY fucked up their depth and chemistry with that move last season. I dont think that team had peaked and Otis Smith panicked and blew it up. They were only 2 years removed from the Finals and he tried to change way too much.

 

[A Tasty Burgerr]

In today's game Howard is an elite center, but that really isn't saying much considering the only other decent centers are Bynum, Lopez, Horford, Noah etc.

-2 points for mentioning those guys but not Bogut, who is arguably 2nd behind Howard when healthy.

 

[G-men]

Howard has gotten much better with his post moves and even has developed a little short jumpshot, but you’re right offensively he’s nowhere near the offensive players Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing were. In his prime Shaq was an absolute monster and Howard certainly isn’t anywhere near that caliber. He’s good, but he’s not as dominant as Shaq was.

IMO it says something when teams are willing to single cover Howard and let him get his and still feel as if they can win a playoff series. I couldn’t see teams doing that against Olajuwon, Robinson or Ewing.

to be fair, none of these guys were really able to get it done on their own either. Ewing never won a championship, Robinson needed Duncan, and who knows if Olajuwon would have won had MJ not tried to play baseball. and hey, even Shaq needed Kobe and Wade to get it done.

 

[ralaw]

I actually think Orlando had the right team in place (minus a tweek or two, mvoing Vince for another wing), but they REALLY fucked up their depth and chemistry with that move last season. I dont think that team had peaked and Otis Smith panicked and blew it up. They were only 2 years removed from the Finals and he tried to change way too much.

I agree I think Otis did panic, but I also think that he had to do something, because Vince Carter wasn’t even playing. I actually liked the switch of VC for Richardson, because at this point they’re essentially the same player only Richardson isn’t as injury prone. However, the Arenas deal made no sense and trying to rekindle some of that finals team with getting Turk back made some sense, but it just never came together. Turk also doesn’t seem like the same player either. Otis took too much of a gamble with the trade for Arenas, because it’s clear that he isn’t the same player and it really set the team back.

-2 points for mentioning those guys but not Bogut, who is arguably 2nd behind Howard when healthy.

You’re right….I don’t know how I forget him. If everyone is healthy I’d take him as the 3rd best center in the league behind Bynum.

to be fair, none of these guys were really able to get it done on their own either. Ewing never won a championship, Robinson needed Duncan, and who knows if Olajuwon would have won had MJ not tried to play baseball. and hey, even Shaq needed Kobe and Wade to get it done.

I’m not saying that those guys won a championship by themselves, but instead I don’t remember seeing any teams in the playoffs single covering them as a strategy. I guess it would have been possible that a team could have used that type of strategy, but they didn’t. I actually like Howard, but I don’t put him in the same class as Shaq, Olajuwon, Robinson or Ewing.

 

[Realist]

I can see why one would like VC for Richardson but the whole trade was bad. I honestly think we should have kept Vince over JRich. At least VC is some sort of playmaking and can give you a spark some nights. JRich spent most of his time sitting on the 3pt line.

Not including VC/Richardson, we got rid of a 1st rd pick, 3 million dollars, probably the best backup center at the time (who we could have kept not knowing if DH would stay) and a good perimeter defender and 3pt shooter in Petrius for Hedo and Earl Clark. One guy who did nothing, is pretty young and a FA and the other is past his prime and solid at best.

And I wont even get into the Arenas for Lewis deal. Otis Smith :sosalty:

 

[manchild24]

I don't like it when players say stuff like this, because the reality of them winning a championship is very, very, very slim. If you want out just be like Carmello Anthony and say it. Howard is one of those guys who wants to be liked, but he has to realize that if/when he leaves Orlando he won't be. Its just part of it, accept it and move on.

Orlando made a lot of risky moves to get this team over the hump only for them to get worse. People thought the Rahard Lewis contract was bad, then they go and trade for Arenas and a declining Turkoglu. At this point I'm not sure if they'd be a top 5 team in the east next year. How

I agree 110% . You're a superstar, man up and bring you're team a championship. Thats why I hate Carmelo, he couldnt do it himself so he cries and causes problems, I would have pissed myself if the Nuggets won it all this year.

LeBron had the "no one around him" for 6 years as an excuse, now we really see he couldnt do it period. He got the players he wanted. Bosh Im not even getting into

 

[Herm]

Marc Gasol and Rudy Gay for Dwight Howard make it happen

 

[dave]

Bosh Im not even getting into

I'm a Raptors' fan and am not mad at Bosh whatsoever. He gave the Raptors seven great years, was always a good guy off the court, and he just wanted a chance to play in a better market and for a team with a chance to win.
Bosh is not a franchise player and was miscast in Toronto. That said, he is also miscast in Miami. He should be a #2 guy for some team, not an after thought, but it was his choice to go to Miami.
I hold no ill will toward Bosh. Toronto didn't live or die by Bosh, like Cleveland did with Queen James. The Air Canada Centre still gets great crowds in the post-Bosh era.

 

[Rayman]

I agree 110% . You're a superstar, man up and bring you're team a championship. Thats why I hate Carmelo, he couldnt do it himself so he cries and causes problems, I would have pissed myself if the Nuggets won it all this year.

LeBron had the "no one around him" for 6 years as an excuse, now we really see he couldnt do it period. He got the players he wanted. Bosh Im not even getting into

He didn't cry. He told the team straight up what he wanted and gave them a full year's notice. He did the exact opposite of what LeBron James did. He doesn't owe the city of Denver jack shit, just like Howard doesn't owe Orlando jack shit.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

He didn't cry. He told the team straight up what he wanted and gave them a full year's notice. He did the exact opposite of what LeBron James did. He doesn't owe the city of Denver jack shit, just like Howard doesn't owe Orlando jack shit.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

They call it free agency for a reason. This whole garbage about "abandoning your team" and all that is a crock of fucking shit. Why even have free agency then? So stupid.