Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[FirstTimer]

I'd personally say that INT was all the Porter in all honesty. He was all over that from the snap.

I'll meet you in the middle and say Wayne slipped, Porter made a great read, no doubt but if Wayne makes a cleaner break Porter can't jump that route as easily and it may end up as collision and incompletion.

I think because of the offensive control that Manning has, he needs to be judged harsher based on the offensive production. Agree or disagree?

More disagree than agree...Yeah Peyton can control the offense all he wants but he still has to depend on people doing their job within that offense and being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.

And to flip that around...Do we then have to take more credit away from QB's who don't have the offense control that Peyton has and are more "system" QB's of other people's system when Peyton essentially has his own system that he runs?

 

[MrBill]

If you hold the record for most consecutive games started and most passes attempted you damn well better hold records like most passing yards and most touchdown passes.

And by that logic, you should also have the INT record. Especially if you have thrown a 1,000 passes more than Marino or 2,500 more than Elway. The best indicator is INT percentage and Favre is around 3.3% for his career which is much better than most HoF QB's. The best ever were Joe Montana and Steve Young at 2.6% so we are only talking a little over half of a percentage point separating them and Favre.

 

[Bear Pand]

Marino played with at least 1 HOF WR. I think maybe even two, I'm sure of the older guys can help me out there.

I like how everyone is acting like Montana was lucky to have Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice holds all the records he does because of Montana and Young, it's not the other way around, don't get it twisted.

And again, Montana won Super Bowls by putting his team in the end zone on the last drive of the game. Forget the "he had special teams help and a great defense." He literally won a Super Bowl by going 92 yards with less than 2 minutes left in the game.

What did Manning do last night in that same situation? Gave 7 points to the other team. End of discussion.

He was lucky to have Jerry Rice. Any QB would be. Rice is in the argument of greatest football player of all time regardless of position.

And Montana's situation > Marino's situation even if Marino had a HOF WR.

 

[FirstTimer]

Nobody is saying Manning isn't a great QB, only that he doesn't deserve to be called the GOAT, at least not yet.

That's fine. I have Unitas as my GOAT.

Manning right now is in my Top 5 for sure. And by the end of his career I think he will be the GOAT.

 

[FirstTimer]

Marino played with at least 1 HOF WR. I think maybe even two, I'm sure of the older guys can help me out there.

.

I'm almost 100% positive that he didn't....

http://www.nflteamhistory.com/nfl_teams/miami_dolphins/hall_of_famers.html

 

[Bear Pand]

And by that logic, you should also have the INT record. Especially if you have thrown a 1,000 passes more than Marino or 2,500 more than Elway. The best indicator is INT percentage and Favre is around 3.3% for his career which is much better than most HoF QB's. The best ever were Joe Montana and Steve Young at 2.6% so we are only talking a little over half of a percentage point separating them and Favre.

Manning and Brady who are both better QBs than Favre sit at 2.8% and 2.3% while both throwing TDs at a higher rate then him.

I hope Manning manages to pass Favre's TD record without breaking the INT record that'd be great and he's on pace to do so.

 

[Tailback U]

That's fine. I have Unitas as my GOAT.

Manning right now is in my Top 5 for sure. And by the end of his career I think he will be the GOAT.

Manning's in my top 5 as well, but he disappointed me last night. I expected more from him because I hold him at a very high standard.

I still think he will win at least 1 more SB and possibly cement himself as the GOAT, but I have to bump him down a few notches after last nights performance. Those are the consequences.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This thread is good shit.

Solid points from all sides, and the usual idiots have either stayed away, or been scared away when both sides pounce on them and chase them off.

Good work, boys.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Did someone seriously say they'd rather have Warren Moon then Peyton Manning? I dont know how I opened this thread and it was conveniently right on that post, but as it relates to that comment...


BAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAH!

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm almost 100% positive that he didn't....

http://www.nflteamhistory.com/nfl_teams/miami_dolphins/hall_of_famers.html

Yeah, I dont recall Marino playing with any HOF skill players, period.

WR: Clayton, Duper, Ingram, Fryar, McDuffie come to mind as good players he played with, bt no HOF caliber guys unless you stretch things with Fryar.

 

[Tailback U]

I'm almost 100% positive that he didn't....

http://www.nflteamhistory.com/nfl_teams/miami_dolphins/hall_of_famers.html

I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[FedEx227]

Did someone seriously say they'd rather have Warren Moon then Peyton Manning? I dont know how I opened this thread and it was conveniently right on that post, but as it relates to that comment...


BAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAH!

We also got a I'd rather have George Blanda than Peyton Manning too.... :bolt:

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

We also got a I'd rather have George Blanda than Peyton Manning too.... :bolt:

Oh.. thats rich.

Im thinking id rather have Rex Grossman then Peyton Manning. Rex never threw a touchdown to the other team in the cruciual moments of a.... oh.... nvm.

 

[FedEx227]

And he was serious too. Because he spent like 4 more posts defending him.

Blanda could kick field goals. Manning can't.

Blanda > Manning.

 

[killgod]

I agree, didn't matter that Wayne slipped. Porter read that all the way and jumped it even before Wayne slipped. Manning should not have thrown it, period.

I'll meet you in the middle and say Wayne slipped, Porter made a great read, no doubt but if Wayne makes a cleaner break Porter can't jump that route as easily and it may end up as collision and incompletion.

More disagree than agree...Yeah Peyton can control the offense all he wants but he still has to depend on people doing their job within that offense and being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there.

And to flip that around...Do we then have to take more credit away from QB's who don't have the offense control that Peyton has and are more "system" QB's of other people's system when Peyton essentially has his own system that he runs?

I'm gonna stick to an INT regardless of slip. Watched it a few times and Porter is breaking on the ball before Wayne turns his head. I think even despite the slip, Manning threw it a fraction too early anyways. Just how I see it.


I think it really muddles up the situation with Manning playing the game a bit differently than most QB's. Is it the WR's fault they run the wrong pattern because they got confused with the complex audible scheme and/or didn't hear it? Is it the RB's fault they had a poor game because Manning chose to opt to run at the wrong times or not as often? This is where you would judge the coaching staff, not the QB.

I don't agree that you can hold it as a negative to a QB that doesn't do it, because they are out there being a QB which is all that is expected and what we are judging them on, being a QB. Manning is a QB and OC at the same time, which is an impressive addition to what he does but I don't believe we can hold it against a QB for not playing OC at the same time just because Manning does it.

It's a tough thing to look at and I'm really not sure how to conclude here.

That's fine. I have Unitas as my GOAT.

Manning right now is in my Top 5 for sure. And by the end of his career I think he will be the GOAT.

What would Manning have to do, to qualify as greater than all, between now and the end of his career. Does he need to accomplish more, or just continue to play at a high level without accolades or titles.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And he was serious too. Because he spent like 4 more posts defending him.

Blanda could kick field goals. Manning can't.

Blanda > Manning.

Blanda could play defense, too!

I'm shocked he didnt bring up Blanda's punting.

 

[MrBill]

Manning and Brady who are both better QBs than Favre sit at 2.8% and 2.3% while both throwing a TDs at a higher rate then him.

I hope Manning manages to pass Favre's TD record without breaking the INT record that'd be great and he's on pace to do so.

It would make sense if he can play that long. Favre broke Marino's TD record before setting the INT record. The point is that if you play long enough and at a high enough level, you are going to have all of the records including the bad ones.

I went back to NFL.com and checked the stats and Favre actually dropped his INT percentage to 3.2% with his performance this season. If he plays another 5 years, he will have a lower INT percentage than Manning...lol

 

[jeffx]

What would Manning have to do, to qualify as greater than all, between now and the end of his career. Does he need to accomplish more, or just continue to play at a high level without accolades or titles.

Play at a high level and win another title, which I think he'll do. But I'll always view Unitas as the GOAT, same as Jim Brown(no matter how many RBs pass him).

 

[packersfan4eva]

Only one Super Bowl win and Peyton Manning will break all those records - minus the interception one - when Favre finally decides to call it quits.

When Peyton Manning wins another super bowl and breaks all the records, I will agree that he is the GOAT

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm gonna stick to an INT regardless of slip. Watched it a few times and Porter is breaking on the ball before Wayne turns his head. I think even despite the slip, Manning threw it a fraction too early anyways. Just how I see it.

Disagree a bit but meh...

I don't agree that you can hold it as a negative to a QB that doesn't do it, because they are out there being a QB which is all that is expected and what we are judging them on, being a QB. Manning is a QB and OC at the same time, which is an impressive addition to what he does but I don't believe we can hold it against a QB for not playing OC at the same time just because Manning does it.

I'm not saying use it as a "negative" per say but if you are going to heap more blame on Manning for having more control of the offense you have to keep the inverse in mind when evaluating other QB's as well in relation to Manning. If Manning gets more of the "blame" when things go wrong offensivly then logically the other QB's can't take as much "credit" when things go well if they aren't as in control as Manning is.Then again they wouldn;t get as much of the blame then for things going wrong in certian ways if they have an OC. There's never going to be a "magic ratio" to figure it all out but at least it's a fun discussion.

It's a tough thing to look at and I'm really not sure how to conclude here.

Agreed.

What would Manning have to do, to qualify as greater than all, between now and the end of his career. Does he need to accomplish more, or just continue to play at a high level without accolades or titles.

1st or 2nd all time in yardage and TD's. Perhaps another SB appearance/win or two.

Tough to say because there are obviously a lot of unknown variables but generally speaking that's kind of what I'm thinking.