Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[shag773]

Favre actually comes out well compared to the all-time greats for INT percentage of overall passes. He's not the best of course but better than a lot of guys who were never knocked for throwing INT's.

QUARTERBACK: INTERCEPTION PCT.

Arnie Herber: 9.0 (1,175 attempts, 106 INTs)
Bob Waterfield: 7.9% (1,617 attempts, 128 INTs)
Sid Luckman: 7.6% (1,744 attempts, 132 INTs)
George Blanda: 6.9% (4,007 attempts, 277 INTs)
Sammy Baugh: 6.8% (2,995 attempts, 203 INTs)
Bobby Layne: 6.6% (3,700 attempts, 243 INTs)
Norm Van Brocklin: 6.1% (2,895 attempts, 178 INTs)
Joe Namath: 5.8% (3,762 attempts, 220 INTs
Terry Bradshaw: 5.4% (3,901 attempts, 210 INTs)
Otto Graham: 5.1% (2,626 attempts, 135 INTs)
Bob Griese: 5.0% (3,429 attempts, 172 INTs)
Johnny Unitas: 4.9% (5,186 attempts, 253 INTs)
Len Dawson: 4.9% (3,741 attempts, 183 INTs)
Bart Starr: 4.4% (3,149 attempts, 138 INTs)
Sonny Jurgensen: 4.4% (4,262 attempts, 189 INTs)
Dan Fouts: 4.3% (5,604 attempts, 242 INTs)
Fran Tarkenton: 4.1% (6,467 attempts, 266 INTs)
Roger Staubach: 3.7% (2,958 attempts, 109 INTs)
Jim Kelly: 3.7% (4,779 attempts, 175 INTs)
Boomer Esiason: 3.5% (5,205 attempts, 184 INTs)
Warren Moon: 3.4% (6,823 attempts, 233 INTs)
Brett Favre: 3.3% (9,280 attempts, 310 INTs)
John Elway: 3.1 (7,250 attempts, 226 INTs)
Dan Marino: 3.0 (8,358 attempts, 252 INTs)
Troy Aikman: 3.0 (4,715 attempts, 141 INTs)

Current QB's of note...

Peyton Manning: 2.8
Drew Brees: 2.7
Tom Brady: 2.3

Looking at this list, I think there is one glaring problem. Alot of the guys on this list above Favre played all if not a good portion of their games before 1978. (Other than Kelly, Esiason and Moon) Taking that into account and looking at his actual contemporaries, isn't 3.3% pretty high?

 

[bucky]

Looking at this list, I think there is one glaring problem. Alot of the guys on this list above Favre played all if not a good portion of their games before 1978. (Other than Kelly, Esiason and Moon) Taking that into account and looking at his actual contemporaries, isn't 3.3% pretty high?

You also have to look at playoff performances. Brett is top 5 in the regular season. Playoff interceptions and the crucial times in those playoff games for many of the ints drags him down. I say maybe top 10 all time when you consider both regular season and playoffs.

When you look at Bart Starrs playoff performances it's not hard to make a case for Starr > Favre.

 

[shag773]

You also have to look at playoff performances. Brett is top 5 in the regular season. Playoff interceptions and the crucial times in those playoff games for many of the ints drags him down. I say maybe top 10 all time when you consider both regular season and playoffs.

When you look at Bart Starrs playoff performances it's not hard to make a case for Starr > Favre.

I'm lukewarm when it comes to Favre. Amazing career, toughest player I have ever seen, durable, and a great arm, 100% first ballot HOF. But I can't get past those mind numbing INT's he threw in the playoffs during this decade to place him top 5 all-time.

When I think of Farve I think of that ball he threw vs the Eagles in 2004 that he just threw up for grabs for no reason. You would think as an Eagles fan I'd be jumping up and down and going nuts, but I just stood there and kept saying "what in the blue fuck was that?"

There's a fine line between crazy and stupid, and Farve toed that line a little too much in big games for my taste.

 

[shag773]

Favre is not the int machine he's made out to be.

Well, like anything else people are going to go overboard when they are just plain hating on a player. I'm just saying throwing in INT PCT from guys who played in the 40s-50s-60s doesn't really give a proper perspective.


He might not be a bad with INT's as some people say, but you can't honestly say it was a part of his game Farve backers should be puffing out their chests about either. Not talking about you specifically.

 

[bucky]

Easy to perform well playing with 9 other Hall of Famers. (and 2 others that deserve to be there)

Those 2 super bowl years, the run game had declined quite a bit and most of the offensive burden was placed on Starr. Starr's playoff performances were phenomenal. No one can argue that.

Starr's playoff performances at QB > Favre's.

No matter what excuses you want to make for Favre.

 

[bucky]

I'm lukewarm when it comes to Favre. 100% first ballot HOF. But I can't get past those mind numbing INT's he threw in the playoffs during this decade to place him top 5 all-time.

I place him top 5 or maybe top 2 regular season. But more like top 10ish all time because of the playoff ints.

 

[shag773]

Those 2 super bowl years, the run game had declined quite a bit and most of the offensive burden was placed on Starr. Starr's playoff performances were phenomenal. No one can argue that.

Starr's playoff performances at QB > Favre's.

No matter what excuses you want to make for Favre.

Plus Starr was throwing to a drunken 34 year old TE in that 1st SB too....:twinkle:

 

[MrBill]

I'm lukewarm when it comes to Favre. Amazing career, toughest player I have ever seen, durable, and a great arm, 100% first ballot HOF. But I can't get past those mind numbing INT's he threw in the playoffs during this decade to place him top 5 all-time.

When I think of Farve I think of that ball he threw vs the Eagles in 2004 that he just threw up for grabs for no reason. You would think as an Eagles fan I'd be jumping up and down and going nuts, but I just stood there and kept saying "what in the blue fuck was that?"

There's a fine line between crazy and stupid, and Farve toed that line a little too much in big games for my taste.

When I think of the Eagles game in 2004, I think of a lot of things. Mike Sherman calling a fancy trap play at the 1 yard line on 4th down that took a few seconds to develop and got stopped for a loss leaving an easy TD on the field. Not going for it on 4th and less than a yard with 2 minutes in the 4th quarter when Green was averaging over 4 yards a carry in the game and would have allowed the Packers to run out the clock. Allowing the Eagles to convert on 4th and 20 fucking 6 yards (?!?!?!?!) and then letting them get into FG range to send it to OT.

The Favre INT was bad but if memory serves it was on 3rd down. By throwing it high and deep, at least there was a chance Javon Walker (#1 WR in '04) was going to be able to make a play on it, which did not happen and it ended up being the same as a punt.

 

[bucky]

I have no doubt Favre picks have taken a year or two off my life. I'm not the least bit happy about that, or the winters and springs I had to agonize over Packer playoff losses.

Some of those ints turned me towards the hard stuff, Mountain Dew, instead of the usual Orange Soda. You know, to numb the pain.

 

[Aso]

Jim Kelly and Warren Moon were in their prime only slightly before Favre but all the other greats on that list played a long time ago. None the less I am a little surprised he isn't higher.

 

[bucky]

The Favre INT was bad but if memory serves it was on 3rd down. By throwing it high and deep, at least there was a chance Javon Walker (#1 WR in '04) was going to be able to make a play on it, which did not happen.

Oh, just stop. It was a quacking duck of a short punt of a pass that was just thrown up for grabs. A horrible decision. All the things that happened before in that game doesn't take away from the horrible decision/pass/int that Brett threw. That pass wasn't the sole factor in losing that game, but it was the play that ended GB's chance to win that playoff game. It was just flat out horrible.

 

[MrBill]

I have no doubt Favre picks have taken a year or two off my life. I'm not the least bit happy about that, or the winters and springs I had to agonize over Packer playoff losses.

We haven't been much better off since Favre left, what with the 6-10 season and then Aaron Rodgers starting his first playoff game with a pick on his first throw and ending it with a kick 6 to lose the game. This year we can be 11-5 and still miss the playoffs entirely if there is even one let down.

 

[bucky]

I turned my set off after 4th-and-26.

I knew then and there that game was over.

.. I really can't think of a more embarrassing play in my 25 or so years as a football fan.

Aaron, it wasn't over yet. We had the ball with a chance to win the game with a FG. They just needed to get into FG range.

 

[bucky]

We haven't been much better off since Favre left, what with the 6-10 season and then Aaron Rodgers starting his first playoff game with a pick on his first throw and ending it with a kick 6 to lose the game.

It's already easy to see that Rodger's makes better decisions. That kick 6 as you call it was a great play by the pass rusher, and a bad block by College. That wasn't a bad decision on Rodgers part. Brett's playoff ints were BAD CARELESS DECISIONS.

We will see if Rodgers continues to make better decisions in upcoming playoffs, or if he ends up as careless as Brett was. Either way, GB is still in good shape at QB and has been since the early 90's. Still hoping Aaron keeps showing to be smarter than Brett. Jesus, can you imagine having a smart Brett.

 

[shag773]

The Favre INT was bad but if memory serves it was on 3rd down. By throwing it high and deep, at least there was a chance Javon Walker (#1 WR in '04) was going to be able to make a play on it, which did not happen and it ended up being the same as a punt.

No, it was 1st and 10.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=240111021&period=5

 

[Aso]

This doesn't make sense when comparing Elway and Montana etc. It's not like Elway hung around to just compile stats and passed Montana or other guys. Elways last four years were arguably the best of his career. The opposite could be(sort of) true of Montana who had two marginal to above average seasons at the end in Kansas City.

It's not like Elway put up great stats earlier in his career. Montana's QB rating in '93 is better than what Elway's was from '83 to '92. Montana has a better QB rating in '93 than Elway has in all but 4 of his seasons (3 of them are his last three years in the league). So an above average season for Montana is about 8 points better than Elways career. I can't think of any logical argument to dispute an average per year over their career. It's definitely the best way to compare, not career numbers.

The stat compiling argument doesn't really hold any weight in regards to a lot of these guys simply because you had very few guys ranked in the top 5-10 stats wise that hung around and put up empty stats for any real number of seasons.

Why do players need to have empty seasons to be able to be compared that way? Empty seasons has nothing to do with it. Averaging things out is easily better than a simple career average. If a player was above average for 15 years while another player was great for 10 their numbers will probably be similar.

Favre would still end up at or near the top because he was so productiove for so long. You're talking about a guy in 20 seasons that has really only had four or five average to sub par years and many more above average to great seasons statistically speaking. It would more than balance out in the end and still skew towards Favre having season average numbers that would be at or near the very top all time.

94-97 was the prime of Favre's career. After that he wasn't nearly as good. He had a hole in his career from 98-00 where he was average had a couple good years in 01 and 02 and from there on out it was every other year it was a good year then a horrible one.

 

[FirstTimer]

It's not like Elway put up great stats earlier in his career.

Do yourself a favor and go look at those Bronco's teams from early in his career. I also find it hilarious you bring up him not putting up great stats early in his career despite the fact that Elways carried those Bronco's teams to three Super Bowls in four seasons in the late 80's.

Talk about not seeing the forest from the trees.

Montana's QB rating in '93 is better than what Elway's was from '83 to '92. Montana has a better QB rating in '93 than Elway has in all but 4 of his seasons (3 of them are his last three years in the league). So an above average season for Montana is about 8 points better than Elways career. I can't think of any logical argument to dispute an average per year over their career. It's definitely the best way to compare, not career numbers.

Because it's a myopic way to look at it? It completely disregards the quality or lack of the QB was playing on and disregards the fact that while Elway played for longer not only was he capable of it but he also put up numbers the entire time as a front line QB in the NFL. This isn't Vinny Testaverde getting into the Top 15 in a lot of catagories by hanging around for 20+ seasons. This is John Elway, who was widely considered one of the Top QB's in the NFL his entire career putting up numbers season after season. Yeah sure average seasons can be looked at but it shouldn't be the end all be all.

Why do players need to have empty seasons to be able to be compared that way?

bama:

Wow.

Talk about missing the fucking point.

Go back. Read again. Try again.

94-97 was the prime of Favre's career. After that he wasn't nearly as good. He had a hole in his career from 98-00 where he was average had a couple good years in 01 and 02 and from there on out it was every other year it was a good year then a horrible one.

Ok?
And that goes against what I said how?

'03 and '04 were good years for Favre. The last 5 have been inconsistant.

Favre's average to sub par seasons: '93, '99, '00, '05, '06, '08 '10

That's 7 out of 20. Trying to paint Favre as a guy who has hung around and simply compiled numbers for the hell of it really doesn't make much sense. He had his team in the Conf Champ game last season. It's not like he has proven he can't play.

 

[ram29jackson]

Favre- Manning-Elway- and Montana

are all on the top of the hill as the rest look up- enough said

 

[JOHNNYTHECLOWN]

Favre- Manning-Elway- and Montana

are all on the top of the hill as the rest look up- enough said

While Tom Brady is sitting the clouds looking down at them all.

 

[ram29jackson]

While Tom Brady is sitting the clouds looking down at them all.

he is behind all these guys. He is a trend