Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

[shag773]

Bunch of hypocrites

I can easily go and find quotes of many of you placing every piece of blame on every QB that you choose to talk shit about. Monday morning QB lames

That's the best thing about being on the Montana side of the argument. You really don't need to shit on anybody. You type out one sentence, then you let everyone else come up with their hypotheticals and stats it takes you hours to compile to make an argument. I don't even need to google the stat I use to end the discussion...

 

[FirstTimer]

What is it about his body of work that "maybe" keeps him out of your top 5?

Really, statistically he wasn't that overpowering. You look through his career and he had very few seasons that jump off the page at you. He only had one season with 30+ TD passes. Even in that season he barely broke 3,000 yards.

9th all time in completions
11th in attempts.
10th in yards
9th in TD's.
8th in rating
11th in completion percentage.

By stats alone he's a Borderline Top 10 guy. At the end of the day though the guy was a flat out winner and in the playoffs he was fantastic. That bumps him back up the list in a lot of ways and makes him a borderline Top 5 guy. I don't have an argument against all the rings and I won't even try. But I guess I'm just not as blown away with Montana as many are.

Untias
Manning
Marino
Elway/Montana/Favre/Tarkenton

IMO is where it begins.

After that it becomes tough. Because you go back any further than Tark(outside of Unitas) and era REALLY become an issue. How do you evaluate guys like Baugh, Luckman, Layne, Starr, Dawson, Graham, Van Brocklin, Tittle, etc against the NFL post 1970...especially against the next tier of modern QBs like Aikman, Kelly, Staubach, Bradshaw, Fouts, Moon etc.

 

[Aso]

Joe Montana is #1.

 

[Aso]

If you're gonna look at things statistically I wouldn't look just at there career numbers. Look at it season by season. Statistically Montana blows Elway away. Elway led the league in pass yards once. That's it. Montana led the league in completion % 5 times, touchdowns 2 times, TD % 2 times, and Y/A 1 time.

 

[shag773]

Really, statistically he wasn't that overpowering. You look through his career and he had very few seasons that jump off the page at you. He only had one season with 30+ TD passes. Even in that season he barely broke 3,000 yards.

9th all time in completions
11th in attempts.
10th in yards
9th in TD's.
8th in rating
11th in completion percentage.

By stats alone he's a Borderline Top 10 guy. At the end of the day though the guy was a flat out winner and in the playoffs he was fantastic. That bumps him back up the list in a lot of ways and makes him a borderline Top 5 guy. I don't have an argument against all the rings and I won't even try. But I guess I'm just not as blown away with Montana as many are.

Untias
Manning
Marino
Elway/Montana/Favre/Tarkenton

IMO is where it begins.

After that it becomes tough. Because you go back any further than Tark(outside of Unitas) and era REALLY become an issue. How do you evaluate guys like Baugh, Luckman, Layne, Starr, Dawson, Graham, Van Brocklin, Tittle, etc against the NFL post 1970...especially against the next tier of modern QBs like Aikman, Kelly, Staubach, Bradshaw, Fouts, Moon etc.

Firstly I would think the discussion would only include players from the modern era (NFL Films Era to be more precise). Nothing against the Otto Grahams and the Sammy Baugh's, but footage of them is spotty at best and no one here was obviously alive when they were playing.

I guess it's just how you weight his resume. I always look at the Super Bowl as a stage where a quarterback cements his legacy. IMO it was made for the QB. And when you take someone like Montana who didn't just play well but excelled in those games like no other QB in NFL history, to me that makes him the GOAT. I think Joe set the bar that guys like Manning and Brady are trying to get to. How can they be better than Montana if they haven't got there yet?

Thanks for explaining your position, I may not agree with it but I understand where you are coming from.

 

[FirstTimer]

If you're gonna look at things statistically I wouldn't look just at there career numbers. Look at it season by season. Statistically Montana blows Elway away. Elway led the league in pass yards once. That's it. Montana led the league in completion % 5 times, touchdowns 2 times, TD % 2 times, and Y/A 1 time.

I really don't care if you have Elway ahead of Montana. Elway to me gets major points for doing what he did on some pretty garbage Denver offenses in the late 80's. He pretty much carried that entire teams to 3 Super Bowls. But I'm not really going to dive into it too much because I don't really care enough to debate between guys who I have ranked around #4 or 5.

Firstly I would think the discussion would only include players from the modern era (NFL Films Era to be more precise). Nothing against the Otto Grahams and the Sammy Baugh's, but footage of them is spotty at best and no one here was obviously alive when they were playing.

I guess? But that kind of defeats the point IMO. There were still QB's then..and some very very very good ones. To not have those guys in the discussion makes the conversation less meaningfull and honest.

I guess it's just how you weight his resume. I always look at the Super Bowl as a stage where a quarterback cements his legacy. IMO it was made for the QB. And when you take someone like Montana who didn't just play well but excelled in those games like no other QB in NFL history, to me that makes him the GOAT.

Montana was a dropped INT away from losing a SB to the Bengals. He had missteps in those games and more often than not he was playing on superior teams. Montana was fantastic in the playoffs and it's a HUGE plus for him that you can't really take away but I think painting it as Montana vs the world isn't true as those 49ers teams were very good in all the other phases as well. They were a great organization at that time from the ground up.

I think Joe set the bar that guys like Manning and Brady are trying to get to. How can they be better than Montana if they haven't got there yet?

1. I don't have Brady ahead of him.

2. Manning I have ahead of him because he is pretty much lapping the field statistically even in this era and is winning a massive amount of games. Montana didn't really set the standard. Guys like Starr, Luckman, Bradshaw, Graham, etc all had long stretches of championship success before Montana came along. Montana was next in line but let's not pretend Montana was the first QB of a dynasty to win multiple ships on some good/great teams.


If you want to put Montana at #1 then that's fine. You'd have a strong argument to do so but I think for anyone to just act as though there aren't some other REALLY good candidates or guys that coul dmake equally good if not better cases for the spot is just not true.

 

[KNUBB]

Back it up bitch.

Bitch? Are you mad? Let me know. I would have found it sooner, but I caught up in the playoff threads of last year. They were quite funny. I found the thread I am looking for and instead of sending quote after quote at you I'll just link the thread(Which also entertained me for being hilarious).

http://vsndaily.com/showthread.php?t=11125

Enjoy it.

:smug:

 

[FirstTimer]

Bitch? Are you mad? Let me know. I would have found it sooner, but I caught up in the playoff threads of last year. They were quite funny. I found the thread I am looking for and instead of sending quote after quote at you I'll just link the thread(Which also entertained me for being hilarious).

http://vsndaily.com/showthread.php?t=11125

Enjoy it.

:smug:

Don't see where I said anything near to what you are saying....

 

[KNUBB]

lol you are retarded bro. I didn't even quote you when I said what I said and I didn't personally call you out. You threw yourself into it and then called me a bitch for no reason :crying:. I said many of you. Get yo comprehension game up bro :thumbsup:

 

[FirstTimer]

lol you are retarded bro. I didn't even quote you when I said what I said and I didn't personally call you out. You threw yourself into it and then called me a bitch for no reason :crying:. I said many of you. Get yo comprehension game up bro :thumbsup:

Your "hypocrit" post came directly after a post I made responding to you.(Again)

Get your head out of your ass.

 

[KNUBB]

I'm a big fan of this one

So, basically, we're in agreement. Drew Brees is an average quarterback, who needs a superior supporting cast, before he's able to win anything?

That's been my point all along.

He's not a top 5 NFL quarterback.

The top 5 NFL quarterbacks get the job done with what they have.

 

[KNUBB]

Your "hypocrit" post came directly after a post I made responding to you.(Again)

Get your head out of your ass.

Check the post times numb nuts. We posted at the same time. I didn't even see your post until after I submitted mine.

:smh:

 

[KNUBB]

Also your groans don't hurt me cause I'm SUPER POWERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm a big fan of this one

:jonesy: at you taking Nuk seriously.

Also you said "hypocrites" plural. Who were these hypocrites you were speaking of?

 

[Bear Pand]

You know how you cunts used to say that Drew Brees threw his team out of games when it was crunch time? Well how in the fuck you give Manning a pass. Use the same logic that you use on every other QB. Don't make excuses for the man considered G.O.A.T. JTC is right. Brady did go to the AFC championship game with JABAR FUCKING GAFFNEY AND RECHE CALDWELL. Don't deflect the blame. You all want to give all the success to the QB now is the time to give the blame to the QB.

Why is Brees even being mentioned in this thread? And I say this as a Purdue alum.

Also I'd trade the team and coaching staff that Brady went to that AFC CG with for what the Colts have now, easily. It's not even close. The Colts are a mess right now. Manning INTs or not they aren't doing shit this season.

 

[KNUBB]

:youmad:

 

[KNUBB]

Why is Brees even being mentioned in this thread? And I say this as a Purdue alum.

Also I'd trade the team and coaching staff that Brady went to that AFC CG with for what the Colts have now, easily. It's not even close. The Colts are a mess right now. Manning INTs or not they aren't doing shit this season.

Brees was brought up to make the point of the people like to place all of the blame on the QB but in this case Mr. Manning is getting the free pass

 

[FirstTimer]

:youmad:

No.

Just amused by your never ending idiocy.

 

[KNUBB]

You're like ram29jackson on this one. I think you have yet to make a point to disprove what I have said, but rather stick with the old "I'm smarter than you tactic". It's not gonna work today son.

 

[FirstTimer]

You're like ram29jackson on this one. I think you have yet to make a point to disprove what I have said, but rather stick with the old "I'm smarter than you tactic". It's not gonna work today son.

You've said something on the subject?

All I've seen you do so far is get butt hurt over Drew Brees.

I'm not going to defend or excuse anything anyone else has said. Only what I have and you have jack shit on me. I have not given Manning a free pass and haven't said anything that could be taken as such. My obvious initial point was that it's a bit much to say Manning is hitting some sort of age bound wall when you actually look at what he's doing in context of the team around him.


Meanwhile you're upset over something Nuk said about Drew Brees nearly two years ago.

Nice work.