Enough is enough. Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time.

[shag773]

Montana also threw to the same receiver group and had Roger Craig in the backfield during his ascent.

The skill positions around Brady have been a revolving door throughout his run.

Montana won 4 Super Bowls with two different groups of WRs.

Brady plays in an era where the QB is a glorified flag football player, and defensive backs are covering receivers with virtually two hands tied behind their back, and safeties who have to wait until a WR are in a "defensive position" to tackle them.

Montana's passer rating in the playoffs is 95.6 (98.2 as a Niner). Thats almost 7 points higher than Brady.

If Brady gets number 5, I'll take this argument seriously. Until then..um...no.

 

[shag773]

I would have to put Brady over Manning for sure after this championship. Manning owns all of the regular season records but Brady has 4 Super Bowl wins out of 6 appearances. Only a miracle catch against the Giants kept Brady from winning 5 of 6 and also going 19-0 that season.

A miracle catch kept him from winning 5 of 6? They scored 14 points in that game. I think the Giants defense had a little something to do with that too.

I think Tom Brady is an all time great, but lets not rewrite history..

 

[Glenbino]

Montana won 4 Super Bowls with two different groups of WRs.

Brady plays in an era where the QB is a glorified flag football player, and defensive backs are covering receivers with virtually two hands tied behind their back, and safeties who have to wait until a WR are in a "defensive position" to tackle them.

Montana's passer rating in the playoffs is 95.6 (98.2 as a Niner). Thats almost 7 points higher than Brady.

If Brady gets number 5, I'll take this argument seriously. Until then..um...no.

Two different groups of receivers, including an extended stretch with the GOAT, forgive me for not crying a river for Montana when Brady has been throwing to guys who were nothing before they got to NE (sans Moss) and garbage when they left (Moss included).
The Niners won another SB comfortably without Montana while he was still in the league, at the same point in his career Brady is still collecting rings with a bunch of skill guys we won't remember in three years besides Gronk.

The era argument is dumb. It wasn't harder to win titles in the 80s, especially if you had an owner who outspent the rest of the league. The pass happy nature of the league today is just one more thing that makes it harder to have a dominant squad, which has been evidenced by the parity we see today compared to the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Undefeated in the SB is a joke stat. If you're actually going to punish Brady for having less early playoff washouts than Montana, I don't know what to tell you.

All Brady is doing now is padding his GOAT status. Old guys clinging to their Montanas, Bradshaws, and Marinos be damned.

 

[Glenbino]

A miracle catch kept him from winning 5 of 6? They scored 14 points in that game. I think the Giants defense had a little something to do with that too.

I think Tom Brady is an all time great, but lets not rewrite history..

He scored the go ahead score with two minutes left.... Giants defense played great, but Brady did all he could to put the Pats in position to win that game.

 

[JeremyHight]

First off, I'm happy we are actually discussing who the top QBs are, not just who is good in the regular season.

Second, Montana still ranks #1 to me. He never lost a Super Bowl, consistently put up great numbers in the playoffs, and actually improved his QBR in the playoffs against the best teams in the NFL at his time. I'd like to see his QBR adjusted to the time in comparison to Brady's.

 

[JeremyHight]

So I found this for Career Passer Rating adjusted to the time period. It isn't from this year, but it does help to shed some light on some QBs who maybe don't get the credit they deserve from the past and into our current era:

 

[Tailback U]

Montana, Brady, and manning are the best quarterbacks that I've seen play. They each have/had great arm strength and accuracy, mechanics, a greater ability to read defenses and a keen understanding of the game.

I enjoy the chit chatter about which of them is the greatest of all but there's way too many other factors for me to think like that.

I do think that Montana started it all. The Comeback Kid was the first quarterback who understood his offense against any type of defense at an X and O level compared to those before him and improvise at the same time if need be. Bill Walsh and the salary cap of lack thereof obviously helped them but Montana's athleticism and poise got him 4 super bowls.

Brady, somewhat moreso than Montana, was blessed with a poised focus and the ability to adapt under pressure and a never say die attitude. His will to win and ability to adapt got him 4 out of 6 Super Bowls. Brady will always be remembered as just as cool as Joe to me but not quite as calm. He and Belichick will form arguably the best coach / quarterback in history but not without blurbs and whispers of the controversies that surrounded them during the Belichick / Brady era. Is there anyone who honestly thinks they won't make the playoffs next year?

Manning will always be the enigma to me. It's almost as if maybe he is slightly autistic. And I think he over thinks himself sometimes and gets too robotic. He understands defenses better than Brady and Montana and anyone else for that matter but his extremely limited pocket movement handicapped him and he had trouble making something happen when nothin was open. I think that's why he struggled more in the playoffs. When the game got more physical and the officials let 'em play a little bit he struggled. Nevertheless, the most "cerebral" and accurate quarterback of all time.

Amidst of all this i will remember about the rule changes and how they impacted the game and allowed quarterbacks to progress.

I wrote this from my phones so sorry for any grammar issues.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

TBUs post makes me feel now more than ever before that Manning was taken for granted by his organizations. I think Elway understands it a bit more but frankly Elway was never cerebral to begin with. Manning the bigger the game is becomes more singularly reliant on himself. He's never had anyone in his realm of knowledge and football IQ to talk him down and through these bigger games. Not an excuse mind you but something that's as important as blocking and a good target to a QB. Fine he's never had a RB or Defense to lean on but everyone in or right below his class Favre/Starr/Bradshaw/Aikman/Young had brilliant offensive minds and/or coaches in support. Just something to consider imo.

 

[Glenbino]

TBUs post makes me feel now more than ever before that Manning was taken for granted by his organizations. I think Elway understands it a bit more but frankly Elway was never cerebral to begin with. Manning the bigger the game is becomes more singularly reliant on himself. He's never had anyone in his realm of knowledge and football IQ to talk him down and through these bigger games. Not an excuse mind you but something that's as important as blocking and a good target to a QB. Fine he's never had a RB or Defense to lean on but everyone in or right below his class Favre/Starr/Bradshaw/Aikman/Young had brilliant offensive minds and/or coaches in support. Just something to consider imo.

How can you say Manning never had a defense to lean on when he was basically carried through the playoffs by his D during his only SB run?

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

So I found this for Career Passer Rating adjusted to the time period. It isn't from this year, but it does help to shed some light on some QBs who maybe don't get the credit they deserve from the past and into our current era:

this is cool
but
need a chart for post season

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

How can you say Manning never had a defense to lean on when he was basically carried through the playoffs by his D during his only SB run?

Having a bottom 10 ranked defense and having to throw 40+ times in a championship game/SB is hardly leaning on. I dont think Brady has ever walked into a playoff game not knowing for sure his team had the better Head Coach and defense elitely prepared for the other team. Telling me Manning had that a handful of times and won a SB with that sorta highlights the potential it gives.
Besides my statement isnt his defense or RBs never performed well. Its about game planning and pressure. Do you really think Manning even that year went into any of those games thinking ok I can play a little more conservatively and maybe run a bit more because my defense and RB can carry things if need be ? For someone that has to call 3 different plays and adjust a billion things at the line it weighs heavy on your decision making. Its not an excuse for his shortcomings in big games but it seems like a huge factor to me.

 

[shag773]

Two different groups of receivers, including an extended stretch with the GOAT, forgive me for not crying a river for Montana when Brady has been throwing to guys who were nothing before they got to NE (sans Moss) and garbage when they left (Moss included).
The Niners won another SB comfortably without Montana while he was still in the league, at the same point in his career Brady is still collecting rings with a bunch of skill guys we won't remember in three years besides Gronk.

The era argument is dumb. It wasn't harder to win titles in the 80s, especially if you had an owner who outspent the rest of the league. The pass happy nature of the league today is just one more thing that makes it harder to have a dominant squad, which has been evidenced by the parity we see today compared to the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Undefeated in the SB is a joke stat. If you're actually going to punish Brady for having less early playoff washouts than Montana, I don't know what to tell you.

All Brady is doing now is padding his GOAT status. Old guys clinging to their Montanas, Bradshaws, and Marinos be damned.

Montana won two Super Bowls and played over half his career without Rice.

The Niners won the Super Bowl 4 years after he last started for them. So I'm not sure how that really supports what you are saying.

I didn't say it was harder to win Super Bowls in the 80's, just playing quarterback.

NFL didn't adopt free agency as we know it today until 1992. Not sure how spending played a huge part back then.

If you think Brady and Montana played on an even playing field, or Brady has done enough to make up for that..well..I don't know what to tell you. Today's NFL has extended the careers of QBs and the level of productivity.

I'm not really into what if scenarios, but if Montana isn't destroyed by Leonard Marshall in 1990..a hit you never see on anyone today much less quarterbacks..I'm fairly confident we are talking about 5, possibly 6 Super Bowls for him.

Going undefeated in the Super Bowl is a joke stat? Wow...

I'm not clinging to anything. I'm someone who has been lucky enough to have watched both these guys play an have an informed opinion. I'm not saying I'm right, but I have a damn good argument..see prior post...

 

[shag773]

He scored the go ahead score with two minutes left.... Giants defense played great, but Brady did all he could to put the Pats in position to win that game.

The offense scored 14 points in that game.

14 points.

There were Super Bowls where Montana scored 14 points while I was in the bathroom.

 

[Glenbino]

The offense scored 14 points in that game.

14 points.

There were Super Bowls where Montana scored 14 points while I was in the bathroom.

I guess Joe Montana never won low scoring games...

That doesn't change the context. 14 points were good enough to go ahead with two minutes left in the game.

He put his team in position to win the game.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Montana won two Super Bowls and played over half his career without Rice.

The Niners won the Super Bowl 4 years after he last started for them. So I'm not sure how that really supports what you are saying.

I didn't say it was harder to win Super Bowls in the 80's, just playing quarterback.

NFL didn't adopt free agency as we know it today until 1992. Not sure how spending played a huge part back then.

If you think Brady and Montana played on an even playing field, or Brady has done enough to make up for that..well..I don't know what to tell you. Today's NFL has extended the careers of QBs and the level of productivity.

I'm not really into what if scenarios, but if Montana isn't destroyed by Leonard Marshall in 1990..a hit you never see on anyone today much less quarterbacks..I'm fairly confident we are talking about 5, possibly 6 Super Bowls for him.

Going undefeated in the Super Bowl is a joke stat? Wow...

I'm not clinging to anything. I'm someone who has been lucky enough to have watched both these guys play an have an informed opinion. I'm not saying I'm right, but I have a damn good argument..see prior post...

All these years later I stand by the opinion Montana led 49ers beat the Cowboys in 92. Ironically I think it also meant the Cowboys win the next 3 not dropping that game in 94. But thats just my crazy imagination nothing tangible.

 

[shag773]

I guess Joe Montana never won low scoring games...

That doesn't change the context. 14 points were good enough to go ahead with two minutes left in the game.

He put his team in position to win the game.

He did? The Giants scored the 4th lowest points for a winning team in Super Bowl history in that game. It's too much too ask for an offense that set a record for most points in the regular season to score more than 17 points in that game?

That defense was good, but good enough to hold that offense to 14 points?

Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is an all time great. This last SB gets him close.
But when you are making an argument about the best of all time, that game is pretty hard to miss.

He gets number 5 though, I don't have much of an argument.