Is Derrick Rose becoming the best PG in the NBA?

[KNUBB]

IMO, he's a better man defender. He's 3 inches taller and about 30 pounds heavier, yet roughly the same speed. If I can only have one superstar on my team, I take CP3. But if I'm choosing a point based around (team) defense, then I pick Dwill.

The only time CP is ever a liability in defense is if he gets posted up. Which I guess where the 30 pounds play a big role, but as far as perimeter D I would give that edge to CP.

 

[FirstTimer]

Their styles are different due to differing physical tools, but the numbers are closer than you are making it out to be.

No they aren't.

That you even say that after admitting that the playing styles are completely different shows now you are just talking out of your ass trying to prove your point...and failing miserably at doing so.

Their playing styles and positions are completely different. Trying to evaluate them and compare them on numbers alone(which isn't even a comparison anyways as they aren't even similar) would miss the point entirely if it could even be done..which it can't.

 

[KNUBB]

No they aren't.

That you even say that after admitting that the playing styles are completely different shows now you are just talking out of your ass trying to prove your point...and failing miserably at doing so.

Their playing styles and positions are completely different. Trying to evaluate them and compare them on numbers alone(which isn't even a comparison anyways as they aren't even similar) would miss the point entirely if it could even be done..which it can't.

AI was pretty much the point guard. He called and ran all of the plays(Which is what the PG does) and how can you say their numbers are not close to each other

In year 3 for arguments sake AI averaged

26.8 PPG, 4.9RPG, 4.6APG(Rose will be around 6 by years end), 41%FG, and 3.48TO.

So in points, rebounds, and turnovers they are just about the same. Care to tell me where they aren't similar.

 

[FirstTimer]

AI was pretty much the point guard.

Odd.

Most any NBA analyst evaluates him at the 2 guard. Including him being in the Top 10 of some greatest SG of all time lists.

26.8 PPG, 4.9RPG, 4.6APG(Rose will be around 6 by years end), 41%FG, and 3.48TO.

You have no clue what you are talking about....I'm starting to question your sanity....

1. Why would Rose's assists go down if when Boozer comes back? Any logical basketball observer would figure Rose's shot attempts would come down as Boozer would take on more of the offensive load. If Rose's shot attempts go down and the Bulls get a high efficiency scorer in the post and in the pick and roll one could only reason that Rose's assist numbers would go up...not down. If Rose's shot attempts go down it's also reasonable to assume his scoring drops off a bit as well so there goes your PPG argument. I also love how you completely overlook that Iverson's 3rd season was the lockout shortened year and his 26.8 PPG actually lead the league in scoring. Rose scoring 26PPG(So far this season) =/= to Iverson scoring 26PPG in a 48 game lockout shortened season. It's called relativity. Bravo on that.

So your "argument" is essentially that Rose will continue to average 26 PPG on much better shooting once Boozer comes back and starts taking shots away from Rose and even though Rose is at the point and an efficient post scorer returns to the team his assist numbers will drop by roughly 25%. Tremendous "argument".

2. I LOL at your complete and utter lack of logic. You are comparing a high volume low efficiency scorer at SG to a higher efficiency PG running a different system, on a different team, in a league with different rules. If the playing styles aren't comparable how can you seriously entertain trying to compare them statistically and make any semblance of a logical point when the way they came about those stats is so utterly differently stylistically? No basketball observer in their right mind after watching both Iverson and Rose play over any period of time would say their games resemble each other at all or even try and take any sort of meaning from comparing their stats as they came/come about them in such drastically different ways. 1. The stats aren't "similar". 2. They don't exist in a vacuum.

Seriously. Have people around here gone insane?

 

[Juggernaut]

we've been insane for a while, where have you been?

 

[Esjay]

I didn't mean to leave out Steve Nash. Fwiw I only said CP3 and Deron, could have also listed Westbrook (debatable, just throwing him out there) Rondo, and Nash. Just my opinion. I love Derricks game.

Gotta see him lead a team and control every facet of the game throughout a tough series in the playoffs before I can put him in the top 3.

 

[RainboUnicorn]

When I think of PG's taking a lot of shots I think of Allen Iverson. Iverson had the stats year in and out, but due to him being a scorer before a PG. That is what I am seeing in Rose right now. He is a scorer before a PG. I will be impressed if he holds up 8APG

Not only will it hold up, it will go up once Boozer comes back.

 

[FirstTimer]

Not only will it hold up, it will go up once Boozer comes back.

Not according to Knubb. It's going to drop by 25%.

 

[ralaw]

I really don't agree with the idea of discrediting Rose because he's shooting so much, because as many have said for the Bulls to be competitive he has to take the majority of the shots. IMO Rose, Westbrook and eventually Wall are all the same player with the same set of skills.

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Derrick Rose
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Steve Nash
7. John Wall
8. Tony Parker
9. Brandon Jennings
10. Stephen Curry

 

[FedEx227]

Huge Bulls fan but I still put him behind Paul and Williams. Although his defense is getting a lot better and it make more and more sad that he wasted 2 years under Vinny Del Negro.

 

[zack54attack]

LOL @ Nahste Calling Rose "Vastly overrated" Keep hating, Haters.

 

[NAHSTE]

LOL @ Nahste Calling Rose "Vastly overrated" Keep hating, Haters.

Only because your clown ass came into the chatbox saying "Rose=best PG in the NBA right now"

That would be a vast overrate. Vast.

I am a fan of D-Rose, but come the fuck on.

 

[MRN]

Derrick Rose will be in the talks for MVP by the end of the year. There's no doubt about it, in my mind.

He has worked to improve the two question marks on his game, three point shooting, and his off ball defense. They are both improved by so much that I can't see him being a top 3 PG in anyone's list.

 

[dave]

I really don't agree with the idea of discrediting Rose because he's shooting so much, because as many have said for the Bulls to be competitive he has to take the majority of the shots. IMO Rose, Westbrook and eventually Wall are all the same player with the same set of skills.

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Derrick Rose
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Steve Nash
7. John Wall
8. Tony Parker
9. Brandon Jennings
10. Stephen Curry

Steve Nash #6. LMFAO.
I suspect a few guys in your top five would give the same response.
If Nash had Durant on the wing, he'd be averaging 20 assists a game.
On Boston, he'd be damn close to that.

 

[ralaw]

Steve Nash #6. LMFAO.
I suspect a few guys in your top five would give the same response.

There really isn't anything to "LMFAO" about. You act as if Nash is clearly better than the guys I listed ahead of him. Nash is a good PG and if this was a few years ago I'd take him over a few of those I listed ahead of him, but not today. Nash surely isn't better than Paul or Williams and taking him over Rondo, Rose and Westbrook is simply a matter of preference.

If Nash had Durant on the wing, he'd be averaging 20 assists a game.
On Boston, he'd be damn close to that.

What is the point of bringing up hypothetical points that have no basis? I could bring up the same retarded hypothetical points with all of these guys, but that doesn't change anything in reality. If Nash played in Boston I highly doubt his assist totals would go up much as the teams play at a slower pace.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Kevin Johnson - better offensive player than you would think, but plays a pure point and passes up scoring chances. Deceptively good defender. Intense competitor.

Mark Price - Money from the free throw line. Good distributer. Hard to rattle. Best in a controlled, slow, offensive set.

Derek Harper - Leader. Knows when to slow the pace, and take control of the game. Streaky shooter, but can get hot.

Scott Skiles - Pass first. Shooting is a liability. Gritty defender. Probably has coaching in his future.

Tim Hardaway - Watch out for that crossover! Another streaky shooter, but isnt shy about chucking them up. Lost a step with the knee injury, but still a cagy veteran who can beat you with guile.

 

[NAHSTE]

Kevin Johnson - better offensive player than you would think, but plays a pure point and passes up scoring chances. Deceptively good defender. Intense competitor.

Mark Price - Money from the free throw line. Good distributer. Hard to rattle. Best in a controlled, slow, offensive set.

Derek Harper - Leader. Knows when to slow the pace, and take control of the game. Streaky shooter, but can get hot.

Scott Skiles - Pass first. Shooting is a liability. Gritty defender. Probably has coaching in his future.

Tim Hardaway - Watch out for that crossover! Another streaky shooter, but isnt shy about chucking them up. Lost a step with the knee injury, but still a cagy veteran who can beat you with guile.

Needs more Mookie Blaylock.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Mookie Blaylock - Much improved shooter from his Oklahoma days, but sometimes he falls in love with his shot. Not elite, but vastly underrated. Original name of the rock group Pearl Jam, who's bass player Jeff Ament is a huge NBA fan. RIP Sonics.

 

[NAHSTE]

Mookie Blaylock - Much improved shooter from his Oklahoma days, but sometimes he falls in love with his shot. Not elite, but vastly underrated. Original name of the rock group Pearl Jam, who's bass player Jeff Ament is a huge NBA fan. RIP Sonics.

Don't forget his back to back "Man of Steel" titles with the Hawks in '96-'97. Guy was underrated.

 

[FedEx227]

Steve Nash #6. LMFAO.
I suspect a few guys in your top five would give the same response.
If Nash had Durant on the wing, he'd be averaging 20 assists a game.
On Boston, he'd be damn close to that.

There's also the defensive side of the ball where Nash is one of the worst in the league.

And he wouldn't be able to play all that well with a slow down methodical paced team like Boston.