jon gruden is great

[ram29jackson]

are u stoned? 30 years ago teams would run 2 WR sets on 3rd and 10. now they run 5 wide on 3rd and 1......the game has totally evolved from 30 years ago.

but that wasnt really the point to my post. It was more about the refreshing outlook a guy like gruden provides

the game is basically the same. haha , the game has not evolved, they just added some changes. Every coach and player knows the same things Gruden does. and they change people every year, next year it will be someone different. I hardly pay attention to commentary because I know most of its for tv. I really dont care what they say.

 

[Maynard]

well, if by saying its basically the same, meaning they still run the ball and they still pass the ball, then yes, i agree. But schematically the offenses are much more advanced in their styles, languages and designs. Sure alot of things from 60 years ago are still seen in variation in todays game, but things have evolved into somthing much more complex then what they had in the 60ies, 70ies and 80ies

even defenses have dramitically changed. The 46 has evolved into something more then it was 25 years ago. The zone blitz schemes are even more dynamic then they were in the 90ies when the steelers ran it under capers.

to say the game is basically the same is laughable......Gruden is a coach from todays game. He is refreshing because he knows todays game. The same cant be said for fossils like madden who time is long gone....remember his days 30 years ago? When the Raiders had nothing but a deep passing game....nobody runs that shit these days as a primary scheme of the offense...

i wouldnt put jaworski into a class with madden, but he is growing old and his personality is just as old on the air

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Is there any other sport where people hate announcers with such a passion ?

Im surprised noone has a "I fuckin hate Beasley Reese" thread.

I have to think former team ties has something to do with it. EVERY damn guy on TV is hated in someway by someone on a message board.


I do have to wonder though just wtf is up with the ESPN MNF panel.
Im convinced they have spiked chairs. EVERY one of them is angry. Bermans scowl and demeanor have changed he looks "right about to be pissed" all the time...Keyshawn is overly confrontational..Tom is just fuckin angry... Carter is smug and easily irritated....and Mike Ditka ...he just "acts" mean and tough but it looks like 80s schtick compared to the angry mob hes with.


For the record.

Dungy
Collinsworth
Schlereth
Long
Sanders
Mariucci
Jaws
Dilfer
Hoge
Cowher
Esiason
J.Johnson
Strahan
Young


Are ALL good. You may not like there style but they are all good.

Guys like Bradshaw , ESPN guys I mentioned , all need pharmaceutical help.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

well, if by saying its basically the same, meaning they still run the ball and they still pass the ball, then yes, i agree. But schematically the offenses are much more advanced in their styles, languages and designs. Sure alot of things from 60 years ago are still seen in variation in todays game, but things have evolved into somthing much more complex then what they had in the 60ies, 70ies and 80ies

even defenses have dramitically changed. The 46 has evolved into something more then it was 25 years ago. The zone blitz schemes are even more dynamic then they were in the 90ies when the steelers ran it under capers.

to say the game is basically the same is laughable......Gruden is a coach from todays game. He is refreshing because he knows todays game. The same cant be said for fossils like madden who time is long gone....remember his days 30 years ago? When the Raiders had nothing but a deep passing game....nobody runs that shit these days as a primary scheme of the offense...

i wouldnt put jaworski into a class with madden, but he is growing old and his personality is just as old on the air

Advanced ?
Complexity doesnt make it any different. Going to the game with 10 or 100 pass plays doesnt change the fact that a corner route is supposed to be run and thrown a specific way.

Newer guys do have a better idea of what trends , styles are likely to produce results , but it doesnt change the fact teams try to gimmick and style there way around the basic principles.
What new pass routes , blocking schemes , run plays , type of tackle , type of throw do you see that these old guys dont know ?

Amazing that Peyton Manning in his mega complex offense is out before every practice throwing and timing the same passing tree I did 10 years ago , and Johnny Unitas did in the 60s.

Madden was more in touch with todays game than than anyone in any announcing or analyst booth. His access to footage , game plans , locker rooms , meetings was unparalleled. NOONE in todays game had the freedom and access Madden had. Steve Sabol/NFL films are the only ones that come to mind. Playing things down for the audience doesnt equate to not knowing the game.


The only thing that changes and puts you out of touch is the older you get the more entrenched you are in your comfort zone. You cant adapt and change your line of thinking like you used to making you a boring or annoying TV guy.
Not caring for a 5 wr set or being steadfast that it doesnt work isnt the same as being baffled by the complexity of the play.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

How anyone can knock John Madden is beyond my understanding. He was the most knowledgable & insightful color guy not only in football, but sports period.

No announce team will ever match Madden & Michaels ever again...with the exception of Vin f'n Scully doing Dodger games by himself, and kicking everyone's ass.

 

[longhornfan]

Madden & Summerall >> Madden & Michaels, IMO.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Madden & Summerall >> Madden & Michaels, IMO.

Unfortunately Summerall got old in a hurry.

His voice is epic...but Michaels is exciteable.
Ill take Michaels only because "touchdown Emmitt......touchdown Rice" was as excited as Pat got.

But Maddens best work was with Pat feeding him topics and giving him openings.

 

[longhornfan]

Unfortunately Summerall got old in a hurry.

His voice is epic...but Michaels is exciteable.
Ill take Michaels only because "touchdown Emmitt......touchdown Rice" was as excited as Pat got.

But Maddens best work was with Pat feeding him topics and giving him openings.

Yeah if he wasn't into the bottle so much he might have stuck around a little longer.

And like you said, he just had that perfect voice to be an announcer.

 

[Senser81]

Unfortunately Summerall got old in a hurry.

His voice is epic...but Michaels is exciteable.
Ill take Michaels only because "touchdown Emmitt......touchdown Rice" was as excited as Pat got.

But Maddens best work was with Pat feeding him topics and giving him openings.

I have a copy of the actual broadcast of Super Bowl X between the Cowboys and Steelers. The booth was Summerall and Tom Brookshier. So, late in the game, Terry Bradshaw avoids a an all-out blitz then heaves the ball to Lynn Swann for the game-winning TD. Summerall's call was "Bradshaw...drops back...to Swann...touchdown Steelers."

Awesome!

 

[Maynard]

Advanced ?
Complexity doesnt make it any different. Going to the game with 10 or 100 pass plays doesnt change the fact that a corner route is supposed to be run and thrown a specific way.


What new pass routes , blocking schemes , run plays , type of tackle , type of throw do you see that these old guys dont know ?

.

your talking about fundimentals. Of course none of that has changed. A curl is still a curl and post is still a post. thats not the discussion

If you dont think football is far more advanced today then it was 30 years ago then there is no point on you watching football anymore.

lol @ mentioning tackles.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I have a copy of the actual broadcast of Super Bowl X between the Cowboys and Steelers. The booth was Summerall and Tom Brookshier. So, late in the game, Terry Bradshaw avoids a an all-out blitz then heaves the ball to Lynn Swann for the game-winning TD. Summerall's call was "Bradshaw...drops back...to Swann...touchdown Steelers."

Awesome!

lmao...love it. Least he was consistent. A pre season FG had as much impact as a championship catch in his eyes.

your talking about fundimentals. Of course none of that has changed. A curl is still a curl and post is still a post. thats not the discussion

If you dont think football is far more advanced today then it was 30 years ago then there is no point on you watching football anymore.

lol @ mentioning tackles.

The playbooks are..the game isnt. Thats what youre not getting. Its not like these guys dont comprehend whats going on, which is what you seem to be insinuating.
You think if he was around announcing Bill Walsh would have less of an understanding of the game and WCO than Gruden just because Gruden is fresh and recent ?

Again difference between stubborn and failing to understand.

 

[chubbz]

jaws is good for replays and analyzing teams but his commentating is annoying. the guy who started this off is right. gruden puts him in his place every week, but hes not trying to, it just happens. jaws always tries to attack gruden with some off hand remark or facial expression(when they show them talking). kornhieser(or whatever) was always on jaws' nuts and agreeing with everything he said. he had to go. i like how gruden give tho exaggerated comments its fun. and for the record gruden knows way more about todays game than jaws.

 

[ram29jackson]

and for the record gruden knows way more about todays game than jaws.[/QUOTE]


thats an ignorant statement made by a young person who knows nothing about reality.

 

[KoRnStARr]

Over the years, Tom Jackson has become a self important, aloof asshole who spouts the same drab opinions on every team and every player. We get it, run the ball and play defense. That's the only way to play according to Tom Jackson, despite teams like the Rams and the Colts and the Pats proving otherwise at various points during the last decade.

Jackson sucks, and along with Chris Berman, is the reason all of these ESPN shows are utterly unwatchable.

Actually he hadn't been proven wrong.

The Colts won the SB through a run game and defense. Manning was along for the ride. 3 tds, 7 INTs during that run.

The Pats won their rings with clutch QB play but mainly defense and a balanced offense attack.

Tom Jackson is fine. He knows the game and he's right -- the ground game and defense is STILL what wins SBs.

 

[Deviant]

not because he took the bucs to a SB win, not because he looks like a horror flick guy, not because he yelled at his kids in a SB commercial, not because he is a great coach

but because he always makes ron jaworski look like a moron. I am so sick of these dumb ass color guys who played in another century talking like they are experts of todays game. People like that fagit ass fossil Tom Jackson who is no longer a happy looking guy on set and is now always sporting this i am better then you scowl on his face. Or retards like jaworski who has been trying to make the same point for 20 years, that being a balanced attack....yes we know, 50% run and 50% pass is balanced. Thanks

well once again he makes his dumb ass self known and gets shown up by gruden. 3rd and 10 from their own 10 with a minute left in the half. He says, this is what happens when you dont have a dynamic passing game. The dolphins do not have a dynamic passing game.

Gruden comes back with....its 3rd and 10 from your own 10, i dont care what kind of passing game you have, there isnt much you can do
gruden is refreshing and great to listen to in the booth

Gruden's good - he keeps it real (i.e. "Gruden comes back with....its 3rd and 10 from your own 10, i dont care what kind of passing game you have, there isnt much you can do") and knows his stuff better than most colour guys.

Gruden is a great color guy. Much better than the other fools they have had in the spot.

I don't mind Gruden at all. I think he fitted in real nice.

and he says stuff like 'Fresh as a daisy!', he is ok in my book

I'm curious to see what the opinion is now considering that most of VSN can't fucking stand him. Also funny that I was the only one to come to this conclusion when the thread was made:

I hate Gruden's announcing. He's always saying positive things about everything and he sucks off every player so hard.

 

[Bmore]

I'll take the Thursday Night Football commentators > all

 

[steeljake]

gruden is better than kronhieser and thiesman.

 

[FedEx227]

He's better than Kornheiser, no doubt... but that's not a hard task.

I don't think he's better than Thiesman though, Gruden unbearable and gives no actual analysis in the booth.

 

[Mogriffjr]

He's better than Kornheiser, no doubt... but that's not a hard task.

I don't think he's better than Thiesman though, Gruden unbearable and gives no actual analysis in the booth.

interesting enough, i don't think he's there for analysis.

They have Jaws being the guy who does MOST of the analyzing. Gruden is moer of the guy they turn to get a feel for how the games going, how a certain player is playing (aka hypeman)...playing the role that miller and kornheiser played but Gruden is better in this aspect because he was a coach in the league.

 

[FedEx227]

It's just too much sometimes. It's like they aren't watching the same game. Normal tackles turn into "Boy Jaws, that Craig Steltz right there, way to make a great open field tackle, that was a great play" I have no problem making a big deal out of stuff that is great plays, but it seems like he's on overdrive the entire broadcast to make every single play twice what it should be.

Your point about him being a coach is exactly what I'm trying to say though, they have a guy who doesn't need to be in there for the drooling, mouth-breathers and can actually give some damn insight. Unfortunately, he's too busy interviewing for his next job and making sure he's not stepping on any toes... so instead we get a 2 hour love fest for everything NFL. He hasn't said a negative thing about a single player or team yet this year. There's really no reason to even have him in the booth then, he's not doing anything you or I couldn't do.