Madden 25

[Aso]

Really? Those features were never taken out? They've been in the game all these years and I just COULDN'T FIND THEM? You want to help point out to me where these features were in Madden 06 PS3?

You're being dense. You can reread me previous posts if you want because I'd be rehashing the same thing.

 

[killgod]

They didn't have to REBUILD in 06. Using compilers/linkers and a higher level language, most of the code should have been portable from one console to the next generation. The only things that would need to be specific to the hardware would be any graphics commands that don't go through a standard library and any real time embedded code that would otherwise be a bottleneck in the processing time. Most code outside of gameplay, which would be all the modes, should have been portable code to the next gen. Move the code, make some changes, compile, link. To be w/o these features from 06 to 14/25 is ridiculous.

If they wanted to redo, they should have started 2 years before going to the PS2/Xbox and Madden 25 should have been Madden 07. OK they didn't have that vision back then. We should have had all the PS2 features PLUS a lot more up to Madden 12 and then have maybe have a one/two year window with the new CCM like we are going through now. Except it hasn't really been a one or two year window, it's been an 8+ year window. Yeah, I do understand. Do you?

Can you stop whining and stick to the fucking conversation? You're all the same. I ask a question to the complainers and it's "RAWR THEY SHOULDA DONE THIS AND I WOULDA DONE THAT, THEY TOOK 10 YEERZ!" Can you shut the fuck up with this point? We all know how you feel about that and nobody cares to read it for the 100th time in each Madden thread. Yeah they could have started redesigning for Madden 07, but again, online was where the money was for them, so they gave no fucks......but this point won't sink in cause everyone feels slighted they didn't get the game THEY wanted. You're trying to say you understand, but clearly basic business is beyond you.

Anyways, back to the conversation I'm trying to have.

So you know the 360/PS3 architecture well enough to know it could have translated as is?

Regardless, that's not what I asked you in the first place. They DID re-do it in M13 and for some reason the average person believes every single feature could just be plopped in without any re-design, and would work with the new core code for CC. Do you not agree that makes zero logical sense?

Do you not agree the last gen Madden, didn't happen in 1 or 2 years? Was the last franchise/owner mode not added to and put together over the course of 6, 7, 8 years? So would it not be logical to expect that it might not be possible to rebuild the entire feature set (in addition to rebuilding the whole mode itself), in 1 or 2 years?

 

[bucky]

You're being dense. You can reread me previous posts if you want because I'd be rehashing the same thing.

I must be dense cause I still haven't found those features in 06. Help me.

The real dense ones are the ones that say features weren't removed, they just weren't put in the rebuilt code. But they are in the game one year and gone the next. That's REMOVED from the game.

 

[Aso]

Even though they're different games.

 

[CCBrink]

:dead: and :yao:

This is why there should be a thread for the new version of Madden in the league forums every year.

This has turned into (how surprising) people bitching, while others that play the game year round try to post logically about why the "Madden Critics" are wrong.

 

[Glenbino]

Spot on about what exactly? It's the same retarded talking points every year. You can't even argue the point because they are too immature and childish to handle a logical reply.


Those just raging about this and that can't comprehend it had to be rebuilt, which includes everything. You as someone who understandings these things, should be able to wrap your head around that. If they had to rebuild the mode, they have to rebuild all the features. The previous features TOOK A WHOLE GENERATION to appear, yet now people expect it all at once?

Why is this so hard to understand?

They also had to be created out of thin air before... It's not like Madden took 10 years to implement the season mode from PS Madden to PS2 Madden.

They didn't have to invent anything I've seen here, it's all been done before. Was the presentation as good in 2003, probably not. But the mode seems deeper than what we've been shown so far (yes there were demographics and budget issues with re-location in the PS2 Owner Mode BTW) which makes no sense.

 

[bucky]

Can you stop whining and stick to the fucking conversation? You're all the same. I ask a question to the complainers and it's "RAWR THEY SHOULDA DONE THIS AND I WOULDA DONE THAT, THEY TOOK 10 YEERZ!" Can you shut the fuck up with this point? We all know how you feel about that and nobody cares to read it for the 100th time in each Madden thread. Yeah they could have started redesigning for Madden 07, but again, online was where the money was for them, so they gave no fucks......but this point won't sink in cause everyone feels slighted they didn't get the game THEY wanted. You're trying to say you understand, but clearly basic business is beyond you.

Basic business is REBUILDING just for online for Madden 06 instead of porting modes over from PS2 to PS3 and building spending MOST of your time building online up? I would think that porting most of what you have and building upon that would make the most business sense instead of scrapping everything to bare bones and just building up online. Move code, make some changes, compile, link. How much development time do you think it would have taken to do that? Wouldn't that have left a lot of time to put into online features?

So you know the 360/PS3 architecture well enough to know it could have translated as is?

You need to have support/development tools for that platform. You know, Compiler/linker. If they wrote everything in Machine code then they're Fng morons.

Regardless, that's not what I asked you in the first place. They DID re-do it in M13 and for some reason the average person believes every single feature could just be plopped in without any re-design, and would work with the new core code for CC. Do you not agree that makes zero logical sense?

It makes sense to not release something until it's ready to be released. M13 was rushed an not ready. And, if the modes would have been designed and done well (Modes carried over from PS1 to PS2 and improved upon each year), then why wouldn't much of the code be carried over? A good programmer steals as much code as they can. You're question is too narrow minded. You assume the code is just taken as is. Your parameters aren't realistic. "just be plopped in w/o any redesign". You don't have to just start over from scratch. Steal as much code as you can and fit it into your new design.

Do you not agree the last gen Madden, didn't happen in 1 or 2 years? Was the last franchise/owner mode not added to and put together over the course of 6, 7, 8 years? So would it not be logical to expect that it might not be possible to rebuild the entire feature set (in addition to rebuilding the whole mode itself), in 1 or 2 years?

They should not have had to redo the entire feature set from scratch. And so far, they are basically doing much of it in 3 years. The first year they worked on it the game wasn't released. They worked on it for two years then the first release. So this is the third year. So I say yes they could rebuild an entire feature set in two years of releases. They basically are doing it. But so what. We're not in a two year wait. We're currently in an 8 year wait.

 

[Glenbino]

Can you stop whining and stick to the fucking conversation? You're all the same. I ask a question to the complainers and it's "RAWR THEY SHOULDA DONE THIS AND I WOULDA DONE THAT, THEY TOOK 10 YEERZ!" Can you shut the fuck up with this point? We all know how you feel about that and nobody cares to read it for the 100th time in each Madden thread. Yeah they could have started redesigning for Madden 07, but again, online was where the money was for them, so they gave no fucks......but this point won't sink in cause everyone feels slighted they didn't get the game THEY wanted. You're trying to say you understand, but clearly basic business is beyond you.

Anyways, back to the conversation I'm trying to have.

So you know the 360/PS3 architecture well enough to know it could have translated as is?

Regardless, that's not what I asked you in the first place. They DID re-do it in M13 and for some reason the average person believes every single feature could just be plopped in without any re-design, and would work with the new core code for CC. Do you not agree that makes zero logical sense?

Do you not agree the last gen Madden, didn't happen in 1 or 2 years? Was the last franchise/owner mode not added to and put together over the course of 6, 7, 8 years? So would it not be logical to expect that it might not be possible to rebuild the entire feature set (in addition to rebuilding the whole mode itself), in 1 or 2 years?

Except that one of the biggest things people give EA Sports shit for is pulling features from games only to re-introduce them years down the road as a "new feature". This was going on long before the M25 roll out began, but this is just another glaring example of it.

I just think it's funny that the same people who have been giving me shit for complaining about the old aspects of owner mode being missing for 10 years ("Oh controlling hot dog prices is REALLY that important to you?") are now trying to jam this super awesome "new" aspect of the game down my throat.

 

[Glenbino]

And FWIW the first couple of next gen Maddens had owner mode features including real coaches (albeit way stripped down from PS2). So don't tell me there was no template in place.

These guys are doing a great job putting the features I love back into a game it was already in though, you're right.

Maybe they're just waiting to make real life coordinators DLC or part of a pre-order offer for next year.

 

[killgod]

They also had to be created out of thin air before... It's not like Madden took 10 years to implement the season mode from PS Madden to PS2 Madden.

They didn't have to invent anything I've seen here, it's all been done before. Was the presentation as good in 2003, probably not. But the mode seems deeper than what we've been shown so far (yes there were demographics and budget issues with re-location in the PS2 Owner Mode BTW) which makes no sense.

They didn't have to invent anything? No? They didn't have to account for all the new functionality of the new mode, it's variables and functions? So they could just "add in easily editing ratings" as an example, because it was there before. However, lets ignore that the previous franchise modes never had hot/cold streaks, the current progression/regression system, etc? The variable changes to ratings edits surely would never be broken by allowing a user to go in and edit freely right? That surely wouldn't open the door to crashes!

Why would it take 10 years to add a simple season mode from generation to the next? Clearly there's very little development required for the basic season mode in Madden 2001. Apples to oranges.

 

[killgod]

Except that one of the biggest things people give EA Sports shit for is pulling features from games only to re-introduce them years down the road as a "new feature". This was going on long before the M25 roll out began, but this is just another glaring example of it.

I just think it's funny that the same people who have been giving me shit for complaining about the old aspects of owner mode being missing for 10 years ("Oh controlling hot dog prices is REALLY that important to you?") are now trying to jam this super awesome "new" aspect of the game down my throat.

So the dev team during 06-09 decided to focus on online and ignore. New dev team comes in and are villians for bringing the game focus back to franchise. Simple question, why are the developers who have brought the focus back to the game you prefer, to return the things the previous development teams removed, the villains to you?

 

[killgod]

Basic business is REBUILDING just for online for Madden 06 instead of porting modes over from PS2 to PS3 and building spending MOST of your time building online up? I would think that porting most of what you have and building upon that would make the most business sense instead of scrapping everything to bare bones and just building up online. Move code, make some changes, compile, link. How much development time do you think it would have taken to do that? Wouldn't that have left a lot of time to put into online features?

Well, considering they reported a single digit amount of people playing franchise mode beyond a year, it seems basic fucking business to me to focus on the majority. How dumb can you be?

You need to have support/development tools for that platform. You know, Compiler/linker. If they wrote everything in Machine code then they're Fng morons.

So the tools change, but all the code should just be copy pasted, and of course the new tools will just understand the old code yes? Especially considering how the console producers are anti backwards compatibility, it makes perfect sense for PSOne code to work flawlessly on the PS2.

It makes sense to not release something until it's ready to be released. M13 was rushed an not ready. And, if the modes would have been designed and done well (Modes carried over from PS1 to PS2 and improved upon each year), then why wouldn't much of the code be carried over? A good programmer steals as much code as they can. You're question is too narrow minded. You assume the code is just taken as is. Your parameters aren't realistic. "just be plopped in w/o any redesign". You don't have to just start over from scratch. Steal as much code as you can and fit it into your new design.

So you'd have rathered M13 been with the same old franchise mode, to wait another year for a more polished version of the new mode? I'm glad you don't work there. I'll play it as it's built.

Perhaps the old code had *gasp* legacy flaws and limitations. But hey, lets keep building on the broken foundation :dd:

They should not have had to redo the entire feature set from scratch. And so far, they are basically doing much of it in 3 years. The first year they worked on it the game wasn't released. They worked on it for two years then the first release. So this is the third year. So I say yes they could rebuild an entire feature set in two years of releases. They basically are doing it. But so what. We're not in a two year wait. We're currently in an 8 year wait.

They should not have had to because...why? Because they can go back in time and tell the previous developers to not fuck things up?

Sounds realistic.

8 year wait, good thing for 6 of those years they weren't even building it. But I guess that's the current developers fault for not being there 8 years ago to do what they are doing now, back then.

 

[Argath]

So the dev team during 06-09 decided to focus on online and ignore. New dev team comes in and are villians for bringing the game focus back to franchise. Simple question, why are the developers who have brought the focus back to the game you prefer, to return the things the previous development teams removed, the villains to you?

See this is what you're not understanding. This is life. You inherit the problems of your predecessor. Welcome to the real world.

 

[Glenbino]

So the dev team during 06-09 decided to focus on online and ignore. New dev team comes in and are villians for bringing the game focus back to franchise. Simple question, why are the developers who have brought the focus back to the game you prefer, to return the things the previous development teams removed, the villains to you?

I'm saying they have the capacity to do more but choose not to in order to slow roll these features.

Why not just port over the coordinator hiring from Head Coach the way they did the draft classes? And how was it possible to have a more complete roster management mode in Head Coach, which came out years ago, then we had in M13? Laziness...

I don't think they're villains and appreciate that they're finally listening to the segment of the community that plays franchise mode TBH.

But is it that hard to say "we're bringing back some of the older features people wanted" instead of the typical EA "new feature" line? It just makes them seem like the same devs spouting the company line we see from EA every year.

 

[Glenbino]

They didn't have to invent anything? No? They didn't have to account for all the new functionality of the new mode, it's variables and functions? So they could just "add in easily editing ratings" as an example, because it was there before. However, lets ignore that the previous franchise modes never had hot/cold streaks, the current progression/regression system, etc? The variable changes to ratings edits surely would never be broken by allowing a user to go in and edit freely right? That surely wouldn't open the door to crashes!

Why would it take 10 years to add a simple season mode from generation to the next? Clearly there's very little development required for the basic season mode in Madden 2001. Apples to oranges.

NFL Head Coach had real world coordinator hiring and RFAs... the first next gen Maddens had owner mode aspects, random draft classes and coordinator hiring.

Tell me again how the technology wasn't there. Glad you brought up hot and cold streaks though. There's an area of the game they took up in favor of building off of existing templates from HC and they still can't get it right.

 

[DJ Rhude]

It will be interesting to see if they port M25 over to the Xbox One and break the cycle of stripping down the title to the bare minimum....

 

[FirstTimer]

So the dev team during 06-09 decided to focus on online and ignore. New dev team comes in and are villians for bringing the game focus back to franchise. Simple question, why are the developers who have brought the focus back to the game you prefer, to return the things the previous development teams removed, the villains to you?

I don't view the new dev team as villians. EA in general(and past dev teams) is/are the "villian(s)" here.

The new dev team is doing something good. I'm happy with that. I think the majority if the issue though is that EA allowed/instructed or whatever past dev teams to ignore offline franchise for so long to the point now where we are in the last few cycles on this generation of console and we are really now only seeing the improvements/implementation of things that should have started or been being worked on years ago.

I think most people's point is that they aren't too excited for "new" features that were removed years ago only to be brought back now once the online phase has died out. WE should be on CC v6.0 or whatever rather than 2.0.

 

[Houston]

But is it that hard to say "we're bringing back some of the older features people wanted" instead of the typical EA "new feature" line?

"New Features" AKA middle school nostalgia.

 

[bucky]

Well, considering they reported a single digit amount of people playing franchise mode beyond a year, it seems basic fucking business to me to focus on the majority. How dumb can you be?

And what year was this reported? The year they basically took it out (06) and didn't add it back in for many years? Where did you get that info from? Only single digit amount? At most 9 people took franchise over a year? Yeah, even 9% I'd have to see where that info came from and what year.

There was an EA employee posting on OS that stated many times that the MAJORITY of Madden gamers play OFFLINE (Except maybe M13 where you were forced online cause offline didn't even work). He gave a % and I was actually surprised by it. The majority ARE NOT ONLINE. So maybe we should just scrap online stuff? Your business sense says we should only have offline play now?

So the tools change, but all the code should just be copy pasted, and of course the new tools will just understand the old code yes? Especially considering how the console producers are anti backwards compatibility, it makes perfect sense for PSOne code to work flawlessly on the PS2.

You do know what compilers and linkers are don't you. They are BUILT to understand the old code higher level source code.

Perhaps the old code had *gasp* legacy flaws and limitations. But hey, lets keep building on the broken foundation :dd:

And you fix the legacy flaws and enhance.

They should not have had to because...why? Because they can go back in time and tell the previous developers to not fuck things up?

The game shouldn't have been Fd up to begin with. Constantly changing the dev teams doesn't absolve EA/Tib from Fng up.

Sounds realistic.
8 year wait, good thing for 6 of those years they weren't even building it. But I guess that's the current developers fault for not being there 8 years ago to do what they are doing now, back then.

You know what else sounds realistic? Let's buy a company's product that's been sub par for almost a decade just because they say they get it now. Because that's just how most company's survive. Put out a sub par product (compared to it's contemporaries) and give excuses why it's sub par. They say (EA/Tib) that now they get it? Let's make them prove it to us first. If they (EA/Tib) finally got it, great, albeit 8 years late. I'm not gonna praise or blindly believe a company that screwed up for the better part of a decade.

Or maybe we could have you tell us how stupid we are for not blindly believing in BackBreaker. Yeah, I remember you telling everyone how Fng stupid they were for not blindly believing BackBreaker was going to be the next great thing. Your always right and everybody else is dumb.....until your wrong.

 

[DJ Rhude]

Speaking about features that were taken out......I was looking forward to them developing this more to include highlights