Mark McGwire Admits Steroids Use

[ralaw]

I agree that the players are at fault, but for me its hard to blame them and leave it at that. The motives were different, some were driven to stay on the field, others were scared to lose their spot on the roster, while others simply wanted to be the best. Regardless of the intent IMO a lot of players were doing it and MLB knew it, and because the game was struggling they did nothing about it. There was a culture of steroid use and for some players it was probably too tempting to overlook considering it was so rampant in the sport.

 

[FedEx227]

Exactly. It wouldn't surprise me if the scope is 70% bigger than we even know. I'm not going to be the one to say "everyone was using" but the numbers back up that it was a rampant, league-wide problem and not just an isolated case of a few superstars.

Again, I'm fine with chalking it down as the "steroid era" and making sure it never happens again.

 

[Senser81]

It's completely a dark era.

How can it be completely dark when McGwire just admitted to taking steroids? We know McGwire took steroids...duh! Unless you are saying that we can't punish McGwire because Unknown Mystery Player also hasn't come forward with his admission of steroid use..."Until Unknown Mystery Player admits to taking steroids, we cannot punish Mark McGwire and we must allow him into the Hall of Fame."


That would be like having a group of 3 people standing trial for conspiring to murder someone...one person in the group confesses to the murder, and the judge says "we cannot prosecute this one person until the other 2 people also confess."

LAME!

 

[FirstTimer]

So did 101 other guys who will never be named.

The actual list is only about 87 names long.

So did the hundreds of guys listed in the Mitchell Report, so did countless others that will NEVER be named.

Ok?

So what players do you think were using roids that have a chance at the HOF?

There's probaly a reason that the big names from those lists were leaked....because they were the big names. The other guys were more than likely meaningless scrubs.

The way the information and names have come out has in my mind prevented me from really looking down on those that did,

Who cares how many people were doing it? You should be looking down on EVERYONE who played in the era then. They cheated, participated in illegal activity and don't deserve any sympathy for getting caught. The were more than willign to break the rules to put themselves at the forefront of the game so I don't feel bad for them when shit hits the fan and they are at the forefront of the controversey and outings. You reap what you sow.

I don't think they should get a pass, but I don't think they should be ostracized the way you and some others want them to be. They took steroids just like the other 101 guys listed, just like the hundreds in the Mitchell Report and just like hundreds of others in the league at that time that we'll never know the name of. Yes, they were elite players and thus get more spotlight, but it just seems weird to punish only those whose names get out and while others will be able to get off cleanly.

And it's beyond absurd to not punish people who cheated. Putting them in the HOF with an asterisk is not a punishment. It's an endorsement of an illegal era. Cheaters belong nowhere near the clean greats of the game..asterisk or not.

 

[FedEx227]

How can it be completely dark when McGwire just admitted to taking steroids? We know McGwire took steroids...duh! Unless you are saying that we can't punish McGwire because Unknown Mystery Player also hasn't come forward with his admission of steroid use..."Until Unknown Mystery Player admits to taking steroids, we cannot punish Mark McGwire and we must allow him into the Hall of Fame."


That would be like having a group of 3 people standing trial for conspiring to murder someone...one person in the group confesses to the murder, and the judge says "we cannot prosecute this one person until the other 2 people also confess."

LAME!

I don't really want McGwire in the Hall anyway. I don't think he's really deserving.

My main gripe is with the fact we won't have Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod or Manny in there when they are all in arguably in the top 5-10 of players in the 90s-early 00s.

 

[FirstTimer]

I don't really want McGwire in the Hall anyway. I don't think he's really deserving.

My main gripe is with the fact we won't have Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod or Manny in there when they are all in arguably in the top 5-10 of players in the 90s-early 00s.

Meh. Don't cheat and it's not an issue. They will always be remembered as the Top 5-10 players of that era no matter what...but that still doesn't mean they have to get into the HOF.

 

[FedEx227]

So what players do you think were using roids that have a chance at the HOF?

I think the eventual disallowing of Bonds, McGwire and a few others is going to get Edgar Martinez in there. Also Jeff Bagwell, Larry Walker and Kevin Brown (although he was mentioned in the Mitchell Report) are all potential guys that I never trusted. Bagwell for sure.

While these guys may not be sure-fire HOF, the disallowing of some of the bigger names are going to possibly let these fringe guys get in.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think the eventual disallowing of Bonds, McGwire and a few others is going to get Edgar Martinez in there eventually. Also Jeff Bagwell, Larry Walker and Kevin Brown (although he was mentioned in the Mitchell Report).

While these guys may not be sure-fire HOF, the disallowing of some of the bigger names are going to possibly let these fringe guys get in.

If anything IMO it will hurt them...they were fringe guys who played during an roid fileld era. So even the question of the era they played in will hurt them more than it will help them by having other guys not get in.

Especially if we are too assume "everyone did it". They were fringe guys even while cheating? No way they can logically get in.

 

[FedEx227]

I see it being more "Bagwell/Martinez put up X numbers in a steroid-filled era which is remarkable considering he was never linked to any performance-enhancing drugs"

 

[ralaw]

I honeslty don't see the steriod guys of today getting the Pete Rose treatment. If current guys like Manny and A-Rod continue to play at high levels they'll eventually get it and if guys like Bonds, Clemons, etc first admit use and secondly get back in the game through coaching, teaching, etc they'll eventually get in as well. This is McGwire's first step towards getting it and IMO it will work. It seems to me people are more upset over guys who deny use, but once they admit and move on people really don't seem to care.

 

[FedEx227]

Depends though, the current batch of old timy, grizzly writers are not going to vote for these guys. The only saving grace will be a new batch of writers, especially ones from the SABR community, or various blogs, Baseball Prospectus, Bill James, etc. guys. This current batch of BBWA is not going to vote them in.

 

[FedEx227]

Once Bagwell or Martinez's name were to come up in serious discussion for getting in or eventually got in then people would find the link. If there is one to be found.

That's my only hope. If nobody gets in, whatever... but I don't want Jeff Bagwell to get in and A-Rod to be left out. That's the shit that is going to irritate me.

 

[FirstTimer]

That's my only hope. If nobody gets in, whatever... but I don't want Jeff Bagwell to get in and A-Rod to be left out. That's the shit that is going to irritate me.

Not sure why, because even if Bagwell gets in and A-Rod doesn't it doesn't mean that Bagwell is better than A-Rod.

I mean Jim Rice got in before Andre Dawson but IMO Dawson was the better player. That evaluation didn't change just because Rice was in the HOF and Dawson wasn't.

There a plenty of marginal guys in the HOF from all eras. This isn't something new to the most recent ones.

Hell Buck ONeill isn't in the HOF, does that make his accomplishments any less significant?

 

[EmpireWF]

Edgar Martinez is not going in. He did not get much support in his first year out and I don't see support for him growing to where he gets 75% of the vote.

 

[FedEx227]

Not sure why, because even if Bagwell gets in and A-Rod doesn't it doesn't mean that Bagwell is better than A-Rod.

I mean Jim Rice got in before Andre Dawson but IMO Dawson was the better player. That evaluation didn't change just because Rice was in the HOF and Dawson wasn't.

There a plenty of marginal guys in the HOF from all eras. This isn't something new to the most recent ones.

Hell Buck ONeill isn't in the HOF, does that make his accomplishments any less significant?

True, I guess I get a little too caught up in who is in the HOF, when it doesn't really validate ones career.

 

[dj_morton]

Glad he finally admitted it. Used to be a huge McGwire fan.

 

[mcstl25]

I'm glad McGwire finally admitted it as well.

As for the hall of fame discussion, I have no problem with individuals that are against any steroid user in the hall of fame. The individuals that I have a problem with are those that say McGwire shouldn't get in, but an A-rod should because he admitted using right away. If that's the case then steroids really isn't the issue, being truthful is.

 

[EmpireWF]

Well, he did his interview with Costas.

Main points...

-He does not think doing steroids helped his performance at all. Credited his great genetics and hand/eye coordination for all his baseball gifts.

-Did not remember any specific names of what steroids he did.

-Never told anyone of his use, not even his wife, father or LaRussa.

-Admitted to using HGH once and never again.

-Said he used steroids b/c of his injuries and to get back on the field.


Somehow, I think he's either lying, honesty does not remember or convinced himself of what he thinks the truth is.

 

[mcstl25]

Well, he did his interview with Costas.

Main points...

-He does not think doing steroids helped his performance at all. Credited his great genetics and hand/eye coordination for all his baseball gifts.

-Did not remember any specific names of what steroids he did.

-Never told anyone of his use, not even his wife, father or LaRussa.

-Admitted to using HGH once and never again.

-Said he used steroids b/c of his injuries and to get back on the field.


Somehow, I think he's either lying, honesty does not remember or convinced himself of what he thinks the truth is.

One of the biggest misconceptions is that steroids are used only to gain muscle mass. Steroids are used just as much, if not more, to recover from injury.

 

[Mogriffjr]

Well, he did his interview with Costas.

Main points...

-He does not think doing steroids helped his performance at all. Credited his great genetics and hand/eye coordination for all his baseball gifts.

-Did not remember any specific names of what steroids he did.

-Never told anyone of his use, not even his wife, father or LaRussa.

-Admitted to using HGH once and never again.

-Said he used steroids b/c of his injuries and to get back on the field.


Somehow, I think he's either lying, honesty does not remember or convinced himself of what he thinks the truth is.

how's he lying? lol he's admitted to HGH, taking it as early as 89, 93 after missing tons of games, 98...i mean he was a heavy roid user and he's telling us that...don't see much lying there.