Meltzer gives Cena/Punk 5-stars

[Warner2BruceTD]

I rewatched the Dragon Gate 6-man last night.

It didn't live up, as feared, but I know the reason. I've seen so many crazy good Dragon Gate matches in the last five years, that none of the spots were new & exciting like they were in 2006. I can see where I was blown away, and I stand by my opinion of 5-stars (it's still incredible), but I am now questioning myslef as far as it being the best match I've ever seen. I'm breaking my own rule with that, because I'm looking at it with eyes five years later, but at the time it was like nothing I had ever seen.

Blood Generation vs. Do Fixer - 2006 ROH Supercard of Honor

http://video.mail.ru/mail/antikrist777/791/1275.html#

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

WATCH THIS NOW​

Joe vs. Kobashi, 2005 ROH. This is going to get pulled off of youtube very very soon, so I advise watching it ASAP.

Personally, I do not rate this *****. But i'm a hard marker. I say it's in the 4 1/2, 4 3/4 range. What puts it over the top, is the out of this world atmosphere. It's one of only two matches Kobashi ever had in the U.S., and it was against the hottest wrestler in North America at the time.

Kobashi is clearly a shell of his former self, and limited, but he goes 1000% and does all of his trademark stuff. He could have easily mailed it in and nobody would have complained. I saw Misawa live twice, and the matches were mediocre because he was aging and fat, but it was Misawa, so I hardly gave a shit. One of my biggest regrets is not going to this match.

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sidenote-the match is recorded "flipped", like you are watching it in a mirror. I have no idea why it is uploaded like this. The theory is the uploader might think he can avoid copyright issues.

 

[EmpireWF]

Kobashi is clearly a shell of his former self, and limited, but he goes 1000% and does all of his trademark stuff. He could have easily mailed it in and nobody would have complained. I saw Misawa live twice, and the matches were mediocre because he was aging and fat, but it was Misawa, so I hardly gave a shit. One of my biggest regrets is not going to this match.

The Misawa/KENTA match was not bad at all. It exceeded my expectations and that's with one of those 4+ hour Sapolsky shows.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The Misawa/KENTA match was not bad at all. It exceeded my expectations and that's with one of those 4+ hour Sapolsky shows.

Yeah, to be fair it was pretty good. Actually, so was the tag match the next night in Philly, but the finish was shit (draw).

Both were probably better than they had any right to be considering his physical condition.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

That match definitely holds up. Its a great "young gun v. old chiseled veteran" match.

Kenta's "old man strength" in that match is elite shit. Its like your pops just beating the shit out of you with chops for 25 minutes. Good stuff.

 

[SHOGUN]

I loved that match. I think it holds up pretty well also.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Didn anyone watch the DG 6-man?

I watched part one of the Flair/Steamboat house show match, but them something came up. Holy shit Steamboat was chopping the shit out of Flair. Theme of the thread seems to be chops. We neen some Kensuke Sasaki now.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Didn anyone watch the DG 6-man?

I watched part one of the Flair/Steamboat house show match, but them something came up. Holy shit Steamboat was chopping the shit out of Flair. Theme of the thread seems to be chops. We neen some Kensuke Sasaki now.

The DG stuff isn't my cup of tea...its fun, but not sure I could ever really call something like that a 5-star. Its just not my style. Big spots lose their value when you perform them for 20 minutes straight and after them, the lil flippy japs get right back up.

I've seen the match a few times before...it just holds up, for me, for what it is, which is flippy japs doing flippy shit...albeit at an elite level. Just little psychology to it all other than absolute madness. I love watching it for eye candy purposes, I just can never take it seriously.

 

[SHOGUN]

Big spots lose their value when you perform them for 20 minutes straight and after them, the lil flippy japs get right back up.

I think that DG 6-man constitutes a 5-star on work rate alone. So much amazing shit goes on in that match, but I do agree with Larry that it's like ADHD wrestling and the spots lose a bit of their impact.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I think the goal in that particular match was to get all of the big spots in and deliver the most exciting, memorable match possible. That was the DG showcase, the coming out party. It obviously delivered. I can respect that it may not be everyones flavor of choice. I get that.

Larry, I suggest you try to find YAMATO vs Doi, or SHINGO vs anyone, or any of the early DG USA shows, and give it a shot. Its impossible not to love what those guys do. The multi man matches are a crazy, fun, blur. The singles stuff is innovative & progressive puro at its best.

 

[SHOGUN]

Yeah, most of the DG single matches I've seen have been more evenly paced.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yeah, most of the DG single matches I've seen have been more evenly paced.

You still have guys kicking out of big moves, but within the context of the style it makes sense, because its a big move style. I happen to enjoy headrops and flippz, so I love it. That's why I was such a ROH mark during their heyday. You had to literally kill a m'fer to pin him in a big match. All Japan early 90's, same thing.

Its like when you watch lucha, you have to accept the weak striking, bad bumping (on those hard as a rock mats, can't really blame the guys), goofy looking arm drags, and low blows = DEATH, all within the context of the style. I totally get people who hate it, because I hate deathmatches and worked shoot style matches, because I can't get past certain aspects of either stylistically.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I always wondered how the english speaking guys and japanese guys work these awesome matches together, in terms of calling spots and what not. I always assumed that there was just "universal" words that they use to communicate.

I asked Lance Storm about this (well, I asked on the Meltzer board, and he was nice enought to answer, I don't actually know him or anything), and his answer was that you don't have to communicate, you "just go out and wrestle". The ref gives the finish, and you go out and do it.

So then I asked him about these DG matches with the crazy chained together spots, because there is no fucking way that some of that stuff can be improvised. He said stuff lke that has to be rehersed either before the show or in the back, plus he said he's pretty sure all of those DG guys know english.

I don't know what that has to do with anything, I just remembered it and thought I you guys would find it interesting.

 

[SHOGUN]

Flair/Steamboat house show match is probably my favorite so far. I've never seen much of either when they were in their primes and the match was done really well.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Flair/Steamboat house show match is probably my favorite so far. I've never seen much of either when they were in their primes and the match was done really well.

Have you watched the '89 trilogy in order?

 

[SHOGUN]

Have you watched the '89 trilogy in order?

:nope:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

:nope:

DO IT

The sickest thing about the Landover match is that they had a second match in Philly almost as good hours later. who knows how many double headers they pulled off that nobody recorded that were just as good or better? Amazing chemistry.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think the goal in that particular match was to get all of the big spots in and deliver the most exciting, memorable match possible. That was the DG showcase, the coming out party. It obviously delivered. I can respect that it may not be everyones flavor of choice. I get that.

Larry, I suggest you try to find YAMATO vs Doi, or SHINGO vs anyone, or any of the early DG USA shows, and give it a shot. Its impossible not to love what those guys do. The multi man matches are a crazy, fun, blur. The singles stuff is innovative & progressive puro at its best.

Its not that I don't like it...I enjoy the heck out of it, its just those kind of matches pass the realm of believability. They are enjoyable, there is just a ceiling to how enjoyable it is as a piece of art...its like watching Cirque du Soleil in comparison to Shawshank Redemption. That's all. I can enjoy it for what it is...its just got a ceiling to it and "GOAT match" is in the attic, know what I mean?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Its not that I don't like it...I enjoy the heck out of it, its just those kind of matches pass the realm of believability. They are enjoyable, there is just a ceiling to how enjoyable it is as a piece of art...its like watching Cirque du Soleil in comparison to Shawshank Redemption. That's all. I can enjoy it for what it is...its just got a ceiling to it and "GOAT match" is in the attic, know what I mean?

Understand completely.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Some solid discussion going on here, btw. Loving this thread.