Our own VSN's top 50 greatest NFL players of all time

[Kuzzy Powers]

I think 4 Steelers in the top 50 is plenty of love.

 

[G-men]

I think 4 Steelers in the top 50 is plenty of love.

how can you put Clay Matthews at 11 and not even consider LaMarr Woodley???

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

how can you put Clay Matthews at 11 and not even consider LaMarr Woodley???

Clay has way cooler hair.

 

[Blick]

Pretty shocking how someone could honestly believe somebody like Jamal Charles is a better player than Steven Jackson.

Jackson will go down as one of the most underrated players in league history. He spent his prime years on the worst team in the league running behind a patchwork line. He'd be discussed as an all time great had he played for a perennial playoff team.

Charles was fantastic last year, that's for sure.

Something about not starting ahead of Thomas Jones bothers me, though.

Charles reminds me of Warrick Dunn. Teams were always afraid to start Dunn or give him a lot of carries, despite being better than the other options on his teams. Same with Charles.

It's unfortunate that the way KC's coaching staff chose to handle Charles lowers your opinion of him. I don't really see why it matters who starts on a team where the backs split the carries 50/50.

Even with his limited number of carries, Charles put together a statistically rare season. Only four RB's in the history of the NFL have had a season with over 200 carries and over 6 yards per carry. Those players are Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Barry Sanders, and Jamaal Charles.

He also averaged 10.4 yards per catch, which is great for a running back.

Jackson just came off a season where he averaged 3.8 ypc. That's Thomas Jones territory (3.7). Even though he's on the right side of 30, he has racked up some mileage over the years, and could be on the verge of breaking down. It's unbelievable to me that you think it's "shocking" that people think Charles is better than Jackson.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Charles was fantastic last year, that's for sure.

Something about not starting ahead of Thomas Jones bothers me, though.

Charles reminds me of Warrick Dunn. Teams were always afraid to start Dunn or give him a lot of carries, despite being better than the other options on his teams. Same with Charles.

Jones was thrust into the starting role because Haley saw him as a proven 16 game starter in the league. Where Charles only had 1 year of success, all be it was one of the best 4 game performances ever witnessed.

Now this makes sense for a few reasons. Haley is a good motivator, and you don't motivate a 30+ yr old free agent by puting him on the bench. And you want to keep that spark in your young back by making him run with a chip on his shoulder. Besides, Charles outperformed Jones all year long (save the two games when Jones had 100+ rushing, and Charles had 93 and 71 with a score. Charles in fact started 6 games last year, when Haley eventually understood Charles was the better of the two.

Let me just say this, I think Jackson is a top 5-7 RB. The dude is a beast. If he had a better o-line and an offense that could get him in more goaline situations he'd have a double digit TD season for the second time in his career. This and maybe his injuries are the only knock oh him. He's only had 2 full seasons since entering the league in '04. That's not necessarily a huge knock against him, he does carry the rock an average of 268 times per year, but at that pace I think he's wearing down. He went from 4.4 ypc two years ago to 3.8 last year, and he had less pressure on him with a better passing attack.

Charles is a pure playmaker. I mean we're talking about a guy who's averaging 6.0 ypc over his career. He had a 6.4 average last year, which tied Jim Brown's 1963 performance. On top of that Charles had 1934 all purpose yds compared to Jacksons 1624. And don't act like the Chiefs o-line wasn't performing pitifully before Charles. Chalk it up to they didn't want to block for Larry Johnson or whatever, but that o-line was just not doing a good job before Charles became the starter, with the exception of Brian Waters who's career is winding down. No, Charles is up there. He's worth mentioning with Jackson.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Steven Jackson has always been the most under appreciated back in the league.. nothing has changed. (Except that its now becoming Matt Forte instead )

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Troy Polamalu
5. Darelle Revis
6. Drew Brees
7. Adrian Peterson
8. Andre Johnson
9. Chris Johnson
10. Ed Reed
11. Clay Matthews
12. Roddy White
13. Nnamdi Asomugha
14. Phillip Rivers
15. Ray Lewis
16. Larry Fitzgerald
17. Steven Jackson
18. DaMarcus Ware
19. Antonio Gates
20. Reggie Wayne
21. Michael Vick
22. Patrick Willis
23. Charles Woodson
24. Haloti Ngata
25. Maurice Jones Drew
26. Lance Briggs
27. Dwight Freeney
28. Mario Williams
29. James Harrison
30. Champ Bailey
31. Matt Forte
32. Ray Rice
33. Greg Jennings
34. Vince Wilfork
35. Jamaal Charles
36. Ben Roethlisberger
37. Dallas Clark
38. Ryan Clady
39. Jared Allen
40. Arian Foster
41. Terrell Suggs
42. Tony Gonzalez
43. Nick Mangold
44. John Abraham
45. Wes Welker
46. Casey Hampton
47. Jeff Saturday
48. Calvin Johnson
49. Adrian Wilson
50. Brian Urlacher :smug:

I have a lot less to say about this list than the others, except it needs two things. Moar Woodley and Moar cowbell. Lance Briggs and no Woodley?

Serious question to everybody. Very serious here. All joking aside, please explain to me why Clay Mathews is rated so high on your lists, and LaMarr Woodley isn't even breaking the top 50? All my homerism aside, I call it like I see it, and Woodley is every bit as good as Mathews. Break it down for me.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Steven Jackson has always been the most under appreciated back in the league.. nothing has changed. (Except that its now becoming Matt Forte instead )

Had to thanks this, I completely agree. And yet he's constantly thrust into the top-10 list, and from what I've seen he's on most everybodies top-5 list. Hard to be under appreciated when you've been considered a top-5 RB for several years. I think the league and almost every fan has figured it out by now that he's a great RB.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Woodley would be in the next 10-15 guys for me. I can see him leaping Harrison next year as the Steelers best LB.. perhaps im just blinded by Harrison's hype, I was actually gonna place him much lower on my list (Harrison) but caved and put him at a more favourable spot.

Lance Briggs is without question a top 50 guy, and a top flight LB in the entire league IMO.. Brian Urlacher was more the homer pick from me.. hes likely not deserving of the spot any longer but I had to get him on there.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Had to thanks this, I completely agree. And yet he's constantly thrust into the top-10 list, and from what I've seen he's on most everybodies top-5 list. Hard to be under appreciated when you've been considered a top-5 RB for several years. I think the league and almost every fan has figured it out by now that he's a great RB.

Therfe is only one RB who played during his era who I would even entertain a debate vs. Jackson, and that's Peterson. And Peterson fumbled twice since I started this post.

When you consider his tools (as complete a back as you will ever see) and his production over the years on such a brutal team, I only rank Peterson ahead.

(LT as well if you consider it the same era. I suppose I would.)

This is where he's underrated. Plus, many fans have barely seen him play, buried on the early game for 3% of the country for 6 years.

 

[Blick]

Outside of Jackson's 2006 season, his production is nothing special.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Therfe is only one RB who played during his era who I would even entertain a debate vs. Jackson, and that's Peterson. And Peterson fumbled twice since I started this post.

When you consider his tools (as complete a back as you will ever see) and his production over the years on such a brutal team, I only rank Peterson ahead.

(LT as well if you consider it the same era. I suppose I would.)

This is where he's underrated. Plus, many fans have barely seen him play, buried on the early game for 3% of the country for 6 years.

I live in Sacramento, CA. I see enough of Jackson to know who and what he is. He's great. Many times I've argued he's better than Gore to 49er fans ad nauseum.

Peterson, LT for sure. At one point I had Jackson as the 3rd best RB in the league a few years ago. It's a year-by-year thing though man. Right now Peterson, CJ, Ray Rice, and Jamaal Charles are above him IMO. I'm not mad at you if you disagree, and in fact I appreciate your opinion. But in my eyes Jackson is wearing down. He's going to break soon I can feel it. Other backs are closing in on him. In no particular order Jones-Drew, Forte, Mendenhall, and Foster to name a few and there are more on the rise as well. Of these backs I fully expect two of them to supersede Jackson in the next year or two on most top 10 lists, as I see his production slowing down, and he gets closer and closer to the breaking point. He's not going to be top-10 very much longer.

 

[NAHSTE]

Outside of Jackson's 2006 season, his production is nothing special.

I think w2b's argument is that the porous offensive line/rest of team hindered his production.

Talent wise he's a top 3 back, easily.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Jones was thrust into the starting role because Haley saw him as a proven 16 game starter in the league. Where Charles only had 1 year of success, all be it was one of the best 4 game performances ever witnessed.

Now this makes sense for a few reasons. Haley is a good motivator, and you don't motivate a 30+ yr old free agent by puting him on the bench. And you want to keep that spark in your young back by making him run with a chip on his shoulder. Besides, Charles outperformed Jones all year long (save the two games when Jones had 100+ rushing, and Charles had 93 and 71 with a score. Charles in fact started 6 games last year, when Haley eventually understood Charles was the better of the two.

Let me just say this, I think Jackson is a top 5-7 RB. The dude is a beast. If he had a better o-line and an offense that could get him in more goaline situations he'd have a double digit TD season for the second time in his career. This and maybe his injuries are the only knock oh him. He's only had 2 full seasons since entering the league in '04. That's not necessarily a huge knock against him, he does carry the rock an average of 268 times per year, but at that pace I think he's wearing down. He went from 4.4 ypc two years ago to 3.8 last year, and he had less pressure on him with a better passing attack.

Charles is a pure playmaker. I mean we're talking about a guy who's averaging 6.0 ypc over his career. He had a 6.4 average last year, which tied Jim Brown's 1963 performance. On top of that Charles had 1934 all purpose yds compared to Jacksons 1624. And don't act like the Chiefs o-line wasn't performing pitifully before Charles. Chalk it up to they didn't want to block for Larry Johnson or whatever, but that o-line was just not doing a good job before Charles became the starter, with the exception of Brian Waters who's career is winding down. No, Charles is up there. He's worth mentioning with Jackson.

Charles had a historically great season. No doubt. I think he's a great player.

But talk to me when he proves himself as an every down back workhorse for 6 or 7 years.

His ypc is impressive, it would be foolish to argue, but that stat is skewed by how he was used. Hard to compare the ypc of a part time player to an every down back who carries the ball in short yardage.

For whatever reason, they don't think he can carry the load. They might be right, the production doesn't lie.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Outside of Jackson's 2006 season, his production is nothing special.

I'd disagree, but what's the point? You are the same guy who tried to tell me Larry Johnson was a better player two years ago.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Woodley would be in the next 10-15 guys for me. I can see him leaping Harrison next year as the Steelers best LB.. perhaps im just blinded by Harrison's hype, I was actually gonna place him much lower on my list (Harrison) but caved and put him at a more favourable spot.

Lance Briggs is without question a top 50 guy, and a top flight LB in the entire league IMO.. Brian Urlacher was more the homer pick from me.. hes likely not deserving of the spot any longer but I had to get him on there.

My wife is actually friends with Briggs, she went to HS with him. We've hung out with him a couple times when he comes back to town. I like the guy personally. But I digress.

Briggs is a top notch LB in the league that's for sure. I've always liked Urlacher, and had an Urlacher poster back in the day. They are both my kinda linebackers.

I think VSN is anti-Steeler, and really removes all reason when rating our players. Harrison and Woodley are top-notch players. They are beasts. Both of them are Clay Mathews in black. Does anybody remember the longest play in SB history? (Harrison's 101 yd INT return against Warner). How about the 6.5 sacks Woodley had in the playoffs that year. 6.5 sacks, in 3 games! Mathews best playoff game was 2.0 sacks. Woodley has done that four times. He's a beastly playmaker. Harrison was DPOY in '08, had 16.5 sacks. Both are up there with Mathews, Suggs, and Briggs.

Just to note, I think you're undervaluing Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis as well. P.Willis is the best linebacker in the NFL IMHO. Ray Lewis is hard to argue with not being up there with him.

Please, please. Somebody please explain to me what you see in Clay Mathews that you don't see in Woodley. Because everytime I look at game film, stats, measurables, and everything else in between, Woodley seems to me to be the exactly the same player as Mathews. The difference is minimal. to say the least. Somebody break this down for me, because it's a crime how much hype Mathews gets compared to Woodley. Harrison too, but Woodley specifically is the exact same player as Mathews in almost everything they do.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Charles had a historically great season. No doubt. I think he's a great player.

But talk to me when he proves himself as an every down back workhorse for 6 or 7 years.

His ypc is impressive, it would be foolish to argue, but that stat is skewed by how he was used. Hard to compare the ypc of a part time player to an every down back who carries the ball in short yardage.

For whatever reason, they don't think he can carry the load. They might be right, the production doesn't lie.

Opinion appreciated. I don't agree necessarily but I see your point and I like it. You haven't changed my mind in the least though. There are areas in Jackson's game that Charles hasn't proved great at (short yardage, goaline). But there are areas of Charles game that are light years above Jackson, like his game breaking ability. If you're in a close game, or even down a few points and you get the ball late and you're backed up on your own 20 yd line, Charles can break it for 80 yards. Jackson can't. Charles a game changer/play maker/game breaker or whatever other label you want to put on him, much more than Jackson who has yet to break a 60 yard run off in his career.

 

[Blick]

I think w2b's argument is that the porous offensive line/rest of team hindered his production.

Talent wise he's a top 3 back, easily.

I know what his argument is. It's getting old.

That's debatable.

 

[Senser81]

I know what his argument is. It's getting old.

That's debatable.

Whats debatable? That W2B's argument is getting old?

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

My wife is actually friends with Briggs, she went to HS with him. We've hung out with him a couple times when he comes back to town. I like the guy personally. But I digress.

Briggs is a top notch LB in the league that's for sure. I've always liked Urlacher, and had an Urlacher poster back in the day. They are both my kinda linebackers.

I think VSN is anti-Steeler, and really removes all reason when rating our players. Harrison and Woodley are top-notch players. They are beasts. Both of them are Clay Mathews in black. Does anybody remember the longest play in SB history? (Harrison's 101 yd INT return against Warner). How about the 6.5 sacks Woodley had in the playoffs that year. 6.5 sacks, in 3 games! Mathews best playoff game was 2.0 sacks. Woodley has done that four times. He's a beastly playmaker. Harrison was DPOY in '08, had 16.5 sacks. Both are up there with Mathews, Suggs, and Briggs.

Just to note, I think you're undervaluing Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis as well. P.Willis is the best linebacker in the NFL IMHO. Ray Lewis is hard to argue with not being up there with him.

Please, please. Somebody please explain to me what you see in Clay Mathews that you don't see in Woodley. Because everytime I look at game film, stats, measurables, and everything else in between, Woodley seems to me to be the exactly the same player as Mathews. The difference is minimal. to say the least. Somebody break this down for me, because it's a crime how much hype Mathews gets compared to Woodley. Harrison too, but Woodley specifically is the exact same player as Mathews in almost everything they do.

Yeah I wanted to put Patrick Willis higher on the list, but had trouble bumping the people ahead of him. I think at this point in his career the spot for Ray is a solid one.